Shooting in Connecticut
 

I am a Father of 3 young boys, my oldest being in Kindergarten. My prayers go out to those families involved in today's tragedy. God bless them - I can't begin to imagine the sorrow that was thrust upon them today.

The act of victimizing small helpless children is an act of a coward. May your soul burn in the bowels of hell for all eternity.

Those poor little kids... their lives were stolen for someone's selfish reason.

Hug your kids - and hug your parents... no one deserves this.

Connecticut

Amazing. Don't know how someone can do this. It's completely unthinkable how evil, "evil" really is.

And on the tinfoil hat theory, I wouldn't put it past the government to push a "grander scheme"... It "fits" awful nicely right now. :_paranoid

Yes, evil does exist, this is proof. My heart breaks for those directly affected, and it also breaks for this tragedy period.

truly tragic. there is no safe place in the world.

Heart goes out to those affected.

as a parent this is terrifying. words can not express the emotions and feelings towards such an act.
my condolences to every one affected by this cowardly act.
some how it seems like you see this type of thing more and more.

I think they should have a selected percentage of teachers/school faculty trained and certified to carry firearms in every school just for this very reason.

I grew up in Newtown Ct. I know friends that lost loved ones. I have friends that are police officers, emts, and volunteer fire fighters. It is just unreal. I find myself crying just looking at my daughter thanking god. So sad. So sad.

I guess we'll truly never understand these tragedies. I cried watching the news reports. You just can't even imagine the horror for the entire community.

Just saw this sad story on our news tonight .
Yet another senseless shooting.
The newly elected government needs to act and legislate new gun laws to try and stop this senseless killing.


My sympothies go out to all who have been effected by this latest mass shooting

I just learned a high school friend just lost his niece. Please thoughts and prayers for her and her family. The name isn't public yet.

God, I'm sorry to hear that!!!

So what would the "newly elected government" do about it? Outlaw Mental illness? The second amendment in the United States Constitution is the right to keep and bear arms. It's that right that keeps this country safe from invasion IMHO. Who in their right mind would dare to invade a country that has 90 guns per 100 people?

Guns / knives / bombs etc don't kill other people. People kill other people. Should we outlaw people?

I don't want to jack this thread --- so I'll keep this simple.


In response to the "government should do something" statement.


The US murder rate is 4.2 PER 100,000 in population.... We have a very large population so while the rate is low -- the math is high... making it seem like we have an overabundance of these kinds of events.

By contrast -- a favorite east coast vacation spot -- the Bahamas -- has a murder rate of 27.4 per 100,000.... Jamaica's is 52.2 per 100,000... Mexico's is 16.9 per 100,000

Yet we LOVE to go on vacations to these murderous places. Go figure.

The rate of civilian gun ownership in Mexico is 15 per 100 people -- in the USA it's 90 per 100 people.... but Mexico's murder rate is 4 times the rate of the USA. Must be something in the water down there. Jamaica has 8.1 per 100 civilian gun ownership... but their murder rate is 12 times that of the USA.

It's impossible to understand why these things happen. I'm with you guys, I was full of rage and very sad thinking of the terror those poor children went through. The horror their parents, siblings, and families will have to endure for life.....

I personally think there are things that can be done to help.

All the video games these kids play today can't be helping the situation. They really need to crack down on all these war games kids can play. It's a bad influence...

We need to protect our children and teachers. We have school police already. Why not have one armed officer on every school grounds? Every door should be lockable. We have metal detectors and scanning equipment to board a plane, why not at the main entrance of a school? You can raise my taxes to protect our children, teachers, and future.....

Get your CCW. The more good guys that carry, the safer our country will become.

Get out there and mentor a child that needs help. I volunteer for Big Brothers/Big Sisters as a Big Brother for an 8 year old that lives in downtown Las Vegas. He doesn't have a father figure in his life. He's a great kid but his enviroment very well could lead him down the wrong road. I'm going to be a postive influence on him as long as possible. I'm already talking to him about doing the right thing, money, nutrition, excercise, education, choices, etc...

If you are a first time gun buyer, you should be required to take some type of course. I had to get a hunters safety card to hunt with my Dad. Why can you go buy a shotgun or handgun without any training? The course should include the potential power and distruction of firearms.

Totally agree.. and thank you for volunteering time to nurture a youngster..

It's so easy to blame the guns. Unfortunately outlawing or cracking down on guns, I don't think is the answer. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's like everything. Automobiles....If everyone drove sensible, we wouldn't even need speed limits. Alcohol.....if everyone drank responsibly, we wouldn't need laws to restrict how it is used. Guns are no different. It's not the people that are responsible with guns that are the problem, however they are going to be part of the people that have to pay the consequences. If we didn't have terrorists, we all wouldn't need to be searched at airports, etc.
Unfortunately, because of these unresponsible people, I think we all are going to have to go through some extra steps to bear arms. I don't think we should be mad at the officials making the rules. Be mad at the "idiots" that are irresponsible, causing the rules to be made. It really is unfortunate for the responsible people.
Let's play one out. We make it easier for any American to bear arms. One person decides one night he has had enough of his neighbor down the road who is annoying him. This same person over the past 2 years has become mentally unstable due to a divorce, job loss, etc. He digs up a six shooter, goes to his neighbors house who has a complete arsonal of guns and is responsible. The neighbor comes to the door and gets shot with a six shooter. The responsible gun owner is still dead. Unless you know who is going to shoot you, having a gun is kind of usless.
I do think the real answer is stiffer penalties when it does happen, this MAY detour some people from acting the way they do. I still like the law where as soon as someone enters your home, all bets are off. They knew the rules when they stepped over the threshold uninvited! Game on and enter at your own risk. My .02 worth. The whole deal kind of sucks. I'm not a gun toter nor am I an "anti-gun protestor" Just an American who cares about good responsible people.

Some other ideas that have been swimming....

Have an active military officer staffing every school. Don't tell me we can't alternate them and sacrifice their time. We are already paying them. Kelli's brother is a former Marine that is having trouble finding work. What about reservists or retired military?

While it seems like common sense, lock up your guns! Especially if you have kids or mentally disturbed individuals. In that afformentioned class when buying your first firearm, a lecture on buying a SAFE and securing your firearms, ethically.

I'm going to write the Mayor of Henderson and my local representitive with my ideas. Do the same.

JUST READ THIS

http://www.dailypaul.com/266479/surp...or-ct-shooting

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may soundcynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names,but do you know the name of asingle victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse,and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school?Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster,instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Absolutely, in this day and age, you can let the news suck you down to a low level every day. TV, Radio, Facebook, Yahoo, etc. Bad news sells.... It's not going to change and the sick aren't going to change their ways.

We need to protect our children, end of story.

Do you think that you can limit some gun related things that would lessen the damage?

For example the day it happened you mentioned the China attack. The argument there is that it'll happen anyways so don't touch guns.

The difference is in the sheer damage you can do with completely legal gun hardware compared to knives. A bomb also rarely manages to kill so many people as efficiently as an assault rifle can.

I'm not saying you ban guns, but I see only a few valid reasons to have one, and neither requires high capacity clips or a high fire rate for example.

Ok members, I have to ask. As many of you have already noticed, there are two threads that have seemed to run next t each other the last few days.
"Shooting in CT" and "Best Handgun for home protection".
That being said, for all the "home use" people, are you locking them up when not used or are they in a location that someone other than you will have a hard time finding them? Just asking and maybe it will save a life

I live in CT and have kids in middle school. This has really effected me. This is just so tragic on so many levels.

I don't own a gun, nor am I opposed to gun ownership. But I have to ask the question, why is it necessary to own an assault rifle? That gun is a killing machine plain and simple. In this case, had his mother owned a couple hand guns and that was it there would be far less lives lost here. But because of the semi automatic assault rifle we have major carnage. I don't get it, and I never will. There will never be a rational explanation to me as to why these guns need to be owned by the general public. I know she owned them legally, but that doesn't change anything for me.

I do think everyone has a constitutional right to bear arms. But an assault rifle, really? You aren't using that for target practice, or hunting. It has one intended use. Tragically in this case it was used exactly as it was designed.......

I believe he used hand guns. The rifle was found in his Mothers car.

i went to church this morning in newtown. My parents were married there, my wife and i married there, and our child had her christening there. They are planning 8 funnerals right now. One of the girls was going to be in the christmass show at church.

My freind whom i played football with, hung out with, spent hundreds of hours on and off the field lost his niece.

My wife works in Newtown (hairdresser) her client lost her daughter. She has cut both their hair.

There is no one in this community that isn't directly impacted by this. I am still broken up. Thought and prayers right now.

Regarding the saftey of firearms. I carry all the time and sit here wondering how to make the system better. At a minimum education and securing them when not in use come to mind. Also the high school has a full time resource officer there.

Thanks Nick

Go back and read post number 12


Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It seems to make little difference what's used - if the intent of the person is to do such atrocities they'll figure out a way to carry out their intent. That's why I said -- what should we do? Outlaw mental illness? That's what really caused this. The semi auto gun made it relatively easy to carry out... but we don't know that he wouldn't have chosen to drive his car on to the play field at recess and mow down everyone he could have.

There's just something really really wrong with these people... and I just don't see how anyone thinks we can legislate or regulate them and what they may do.


We have 300 million people or more in this country -- some of whom are whack jobs. Laws only stop law abiding citizens. They never stop someone from breaking the law.


Go here

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=118&cat=2

and compare state by state the AUTO death rate per 100,000 and you'll see that it's TWICE and more in almost every single state in the union than the murder rate of the US. I don't see any discourse on banning cars and trucks.... nobody is outraged... yet deadly accidents happen day after day regardless of the hundreds of laws around driving - and all the safety equipment - and all the police around.


If guns are to blame for the death rate -- then with the highest guns per capita in the world - we should then have the highest murder rate/death rate by gun in the world... and we don't. We're not even close. So the numbers / justification just don't add up.

I agree with Morgan Freeman.... it's the news and the sensationalized reporting which people are drawn to like moths to a flame. But maybe even then you can't explain these tragic events. I mean seriously - who in their right mind kills their mother?

Mind you -- I've now cried TWICE over this immensely disturbing event. I'm a father of two - I can't even imagine the sorrow people are feeling. But I don't connect the weapon of choice to the causation, or even the result.

The medical examiner stated yesterday all mortal wounds were done with the rifle. The information was just too scattered at the time that was announced.

Some other stories from friends first hand.

My brothers freind dropped his wife off at the school she was the last person into the building before the gunman. this is the first year in a decade that they havn't had a child in the school. She survived.

My cousins daughter hurt her ankle the day before the shooting. She stayed home to go to the doctors office. Thank god she wasn't there.

A Janitor at the police station jumped into a cruiser with a police officer to help evacuate children. He is a freind of the family.

You can't prevent them all, but improvements can always be made to the sytems in place to prevent some future occurences. Like your own life, you have adapted to your enviroment by neccessity. There is a clear history of school massacres. It's time for things to change at our schools.

To have such innocence with NO protection is no longer going to work with modern society. We need to start with a highly trained officer/troop at each school to help deter or take care of business. It's just common sense and we have the resources to easily make it happen.

My letter is done and going out tomorrow.....

This I like. The school had 600 children there. I thinks its worth the overtime.

If I have "intent" -- the first guy that gets taken by surprise is the guy with a gun. There's so many doors in a school - they're large places - they're "porous" with windows (usually low) etc. They're porous with people coming and going at all hours. I worked playground duty for 5 or 6 years at our kids elementary school. The traffic in and out was constant - and from multiple doors. Look at Columbine... that was a GROUP of students! That wasn't a random insane adult from outside. That was planned... So to me - if they knew there was armed resistance - that would have just been incorporated into the plan - a simple distraction at one end of the school - draw the officer into a trap... and now we would have just added to the death count and added another weapon and ammo and armor to be used at the scene.

I'm taking the stance by the way -- not because I'm in complete disagreement... I'm just trying to point out that you can't defend from every thing that happens in life.


An officer is a "feel good" mechanism -- it would make law abiding normal citizens feel good... I feel good because I know there are police - fireman - EMT's nearby. There is someone who will react to my need should the need arise. It won't stop my house from catching fire. It won't stop me from speeding when I want to. It won't stop me from having a heart attack.

I'm an internationally licensed pyro. I can think of dozens of ways I could cause far more carnage in a school or a mall or any number of public places. It's happening in Mosques and shops and cafes in Iraq and Afghanistan... I'm sure there's laws against suicide vests -- and IED's -- and lord knows there's enough military firepower around to prevent almost anything. Except and unless SOMEONE wants to kill people and doesn't care what happens to themselves.

And now an evacuation at the same church St Rose. I was just there this morning. Sounds like some sort of threat.
ugh

My last post is - as my others have been - posted to be "thought provoking" -- not argumentative -- just stuff to think about.


How many of you own these killing games for the video play stations? How many of you have bought them for your kids...

Do you think that making a game out of killing people / monsters / other army's is a good value to have?

I have NONE of these at my house. Every time I see an Ad for these - I shake my head in a WTF kind of way. What are we teaching kids with these "games"?

If it's the weapons etc that do all these crazy atrocities... We should have a mass murder like this every single day. Why? Think about all the "ex" and current, Navy Seals... Marines... Army Special Ops guys etc that our government has trained year after year. These are some of the most lethal human beings on the planet - maybe in the universe... Personally I'd feel the safest on a bus full of them... over a bus with normal people and one "street urchin"... I can't remember ever reading about one of them committing something as heinous as this. Nothing would stop them if they wanted to do mayhem. What stops them is, they are SANE. The "street urchin"? I'm not so sure about him.

There is a current instance of this on trial now - where the guy shot up an entire village in Afghanistan.. The guy has to be insane. BTW -- there were dozens(?) of other troops around this guy with weapons and training etc... but it didn't stop him. Just saying - there was plenty of "deterrents" around. It just didn't help.

Indeed, but don't you think that it's a lot easier to kill 20+ people with a rapid fire high capacity gun versus a knife? Show me a knife attack anywhere in the ballpark of one of these school shootings.

Bombings are completely different in that to achieve the same effect would require a tremendous amount of work and planning, including things that could tip the police off in advance.

I see guns being valid for two reasons, hunting and self defense. I don't think you need an uzi or something for either, and I think you don't need 19+ round clips for either.

So sorry Nick! That's the last kind of thing you all need now!


This kind of stuff just kills your spirit. I think because of the sense of helplessness we all have. We all want to be able to fix the world.. and somehow we can't.

I agree but the criminals in these cases are not highly trained Navy seals. They are sick kids. The positives of having a trained officer/solidier outweigh the negatives. This particular wacko committed suicide once he knew armed police were on the scene. He prayed on the innocent because he was a coward.

You could make a (several!) pipe bomb by getting on the internet -- going to the hardware store - one stop at Cabella's... and be at an event within an hour or two of deciding to do something like that. NOTHING would stop you (anyone). No law. No amount of law enforcement. The only hope would be that you'd mess up and blow yourself up before you could commit such a thing.

I'm not being a "gun" advocate... Not at all. In fact -- I'm not arguing GUNS at all -- I'm arguing what can be done about this kind of thing. I'm just saying that while we like to be reactionary and "do something".... I don't think there is anything anyone can do to stop this kind of stuff. In fact - I would say there is absolutely ZERO you can do.

I love the fact that you can ONLY carry on 3 ounces of 'liquid' boarding a plane. Really? So the planes that were used in 9/11 had 4 guys each on them - that's 12 ounces of 'liquid' if each got on with one 3 oz bottle... These people are crazy they don't care if they die. If they need 6 guys they'll round up 6 guys.


BTW --- I think that schools would need TWO -- officers minimum and three or 4 at larger schools. I'm not against that at all. But ONE.... one is not protection from anything. There might need to be one per entrance door. Then you'd have a fighting chance at prevention... but then I feel the "intentional person" would just move to a different venue.

It's been brought to my attention that High Schools here do have multiple armed officers. That makes it even easier to implement into elementaries and middle schools. I agree, one isn't enough. It should be based on the school size.

The truth is, most of thse variables are not going to change. The news isn't going to quit reporting negativiely, parents will continue to let there kids play war games, people won't lock up their guns, criminals will always find a way to obtain a gun. I do think education and systems could help diminish these variables over time.

Putting systems in place to protect our elementary/middle school kids is a no brainer.

There were 22 kids killed in China on the same day with a knife.

Here ---- Read this --- it helps restore your faith in humanity.....



http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/momen...umanity-this-y

Incorrect -- there were 23 INJURED not killed.


That is what RealCoray is arguing - is that it is the type of weapon used that made the killings so easy. I agree with him 100%. The point I'm discussing is what to do about it. My point is that laws don't protect anyone. They just give us a prosecution tool... AFTER the fact.

Todd wants protection at schools. I agree - nothing to argue there... whether it's a deterrent or not is how we implement it... one guard at a huge school isn't really much of a deterrent IMHO.... Again -- my discussion about that is -- would it just move the assailant to a different location? Say he wants to attack kids - would you just go to Toys R Us? A kids movie showing? The Santa area at the mall? A soccer game? So what can we realistically protect people from - and where?


Everyone agrees that this is an incredibly horrendous crime. Unimaginable really! It makes you sick with grief. What to do about it is another discussion entirely.