Yet another 2nd Gen Camaro - Project/update
 

I've been on the board for a while now and met a few of the guys on the board, even some with cars that actually work :whistling:, but never really posted too much about my ride. I've got a 72 Camaro that I use as a driver and have been learning on the Autocross and Road courses. I'm not an idiot with cars but I am not a pro fabricator, welders, or body man. I'm just a normal guy teaching myself as I go along. The car has a 377 SBC I built with a forged bottom end, some 195cc heads, a nice solid flat tappet and a TB fuel injection. Trans is a T56 Mag with a mechanical linkage and Quicktime bell. Brakes are C5 front and LS rear. Hotchkis rear leafs, QA1 rear shocks, QA1 front coil overs, tubular UCA, boxed factory LCA with delrin bushings and DSE subframe connectors. Most of the car was build from used parts where possible because I can't afford all the crazy billet stuff I would love. I'm a bit more into function over beauty but try to balance as best I can. It makes decent power but nothing too crazy. It has run a 12.6 @ 113 at the strip with a miserable 2.3 sec 60 ft. I have also passed some BMW's and Vettes on occasion at T- hill and TWS. All in all a good street car that is fun because most of the time it's actually running.

An issue has come around that I baked the rear axle at texas World Speedway the other week and decided I needed to change the suspension setup. It was 106 outside which along with the large front stretch and a gear setup that was not spot on I ended up with the axle howling at me @ ~110mph. I limped it around for the day and concentrated on hitting lines on the turns more and did learn alot. When I got home I decided it was time to order some new parts because the factory 10 bolt was really starting to scare me anyways.....

I called but Speedtech and talked with Roger for a while to formulate a plan. I decided to get the TA rear kit with Ridetech Single Adj. I also picked up Ridetech coil overs for the front with their Chicane kit so the car would be more balanced. For an axle I decided a full floater from Speedway was not much more than a standard 9". Speedway was also able to install all the Speedtech mounts and any brake mounts I needed so it was a 1 stop shop. Mike at Wilwood helped my with the new rear brakes based on a lot of feedback using Brian's Camaro as an example. I ended up with some 4 piston dynapros, 12.19" rotors and their new MC4 parking brake setup. Later I'll update the front brakes but for now I have to focus on installing all of this stuff.

I'll work to detail out the install in the coming days/weeks. It should be an interesting install. I used to have a nice 2 car garage but earlier this year I relocated from Sacramento to Austin. I now share a garage with some nice guys who play with some Harleys. I no longer have my roller box at the house. All I have are normal hand tools, a 4.5" grinder, drill, sawzall, jacks and jack stand and a 220v mig welder. I think this will be a real test on how a normal guy can do the install. I'm excited to see how it comes together and how different the car will be with the new setup.


He's a pic of the car I'll work to post pics of the parts a bit later tonight.

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Nice! I'm anxious to see how this works out for you as I'm considering something similar for suspension on my car. I'd liek to also end up doing track days one day. I'm in the same boat as you budget wise so buying all the high dollar stuff just won't be possible. We are lucky that our factory subframes and front suspensions are pretty good to begin with.

Good luck and keep us posted. :welder:

Sound's like a great project.Will be tuning in to see more.:thumbsup:

Steve! Glad to see you post your project... about time!

I see you took some shots at Rob in your intro. Nice work on that. :D

Well some of us are... :sieg:

Awesome Steve!! Love to see the low budget builds making it to the track!! Keep up the good work !! :thumbsup:

Thanks for all the positive responses


The car current does work pretty well and I know it already exceeds my driving. All the new parts were far from "cheap" but hopefully I'm building a reliable foundation to help improve my driving skills.

Thanks it's been a very fun car so far. I've learned a lot from it and the advice on the board. Hoping I can start to give back a little.

My goal is to have the new updates to the car complete well before you get your engine installed.... If I take a day off work I think I could even get it done before dyno day....:twak:


Thanks. I'm still bummed I didn't get to meet up with you to get a little driving advice and see your car before I left town for Texas.


Here are some pics of the parts.

TA kit
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Ridetech Coilovers

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Speedway housing

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Brakes - I'll work on a better pic tonight

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Started a little bit of work this weekend. Pulled out the fuel tank as well as the old suspension.

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I started to work on the installation of the rear crossmember for the panhard bar and coil overs. There were some random shock mounts I had welded to the frame when I was working to relocate the old shocks to clear the LS brakes and keep staggered setup. These were cut off and cleaned up the frame a bit.

Due to the grinding and cleanup there are some thinner parts on the frame. I'm pretty sure I'll be adding some 1/8" plate to the bottom and inner portion of the rail to assure there is plenty of strength. Speedtech makes the x-member with 1/4" clearance already to allow for factory tolerances so this should be no issue.

During the fitment I became very confused and frustrated. I used the Speedtech measurements based off the leaf shackles but the crossmember was clearly not straight. There was ~1 3/4 difference in the measurement from the x-member to the floor pan. The mounts were also not straight with the frame.Unfortunately the picture in the instructions is impossible to see so I could not figure out the issue. Rather than cause an issue with the install I decided to quit halfway through the day. It was also 102 here so it was probably best for my health too. I called Speedtech today and spoke to Blake. He clarified I was measuring to the wrong part of the x-member. He also admitted the picture was horrible and needed to be corrected. Later this week I'll adjust the mock up to see how the revised measurement looks.

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Got a little more work done this weekend but overall I'm slacking a bit. First, I talked to Blake and he confirmed I was measuring from the wrong location on the x-member. Checked it again from the correct spot and it was dead on. I also talked to him about adding metal to the frame just in case. I want to add 1/8 plate to the bottom and inside of the frame rail. The rails have been welded and ground on prior so I'd feel more comfortable with a little reinforcement added. Blake confirmed it's not a bad idea.

I cleaned up most of the rails and have the general pieces aligned to box the rails. I just need to spend a little more time prepping for welding and it should be done.


Mocked up the housing ends
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Cleaned Frame rails
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High tech tools to bend plate
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Don't look too close at the welds. They need a little cleanup but a least have good penetration...
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Steve, lookin good man..... what's that black bike in the garage there?

Lookin good.I've thinking of using a SpeedTech Torque arm in our next Project.I like their stuff.:thumbsup:

The bike is my neighbors Harley. They are big into custom bikes. There was another really nice Harley but unfortunately one of the guys totaled it and ended up shattering his leg and in the hospital over a week. Thats the reason I like my huge truck and my car with a roll bar and such.


The quality of the product is very nice and both Blake and Roger have been great to work with so far. Even with my request to use a custom floater from Speedway they didn't flinch and helped me all the way through the process. Hopefully soon I get off my butt and get it all done so I have some seat time.

Cleaned up the plates I'm using to box in the frame and started welding them on. Work's been a bit nuts so I'm way behind schedule. Despite being behind I'm still trying to take it slow and easy to get it all right the first time.

Even while trying to do it right I screwed up a little. I wanted to drill holes in the 1/8 plate so I could also plug weld (think that's what it's called) it to the existing frame so its not just held by the outer welds. I remembered on the lower plate but not the upper. I'm going to carefully drill some holes mostly thru the plate then weld it up. I assume with the correct setting the weld should still penetrate and bond even if I don't drill all the way through the plate.

I think I've also decided to swap out the front brakes to a 13: 6 piston Wilwood setup including a 7/8 master cylinder. Mike @ Wilwood is working with me to get the parts together. It's beyond my original budget but I figure it's best to just get it all done right the first time.

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Oh, and this time I'm open to any feedback about my welds. I did my best to be patient and keep the metal clean but I'm still trying to figure it all out.

How's it coming Steve?

The project is moving along, just slowly due to work. As of today I have the full suspension mocked up. Lots of work was need to get the front x-member in due to the Detroit Speed subframe connectors and the lowered body mount. I had to cut the frames apart in order to get the x-member in. Now I need to add some plate to reattach the frames again but this time the front side will be welded and the rear will use a couple thru bolts. I'll try to get a few more pics but here are a few bad ones I took while working.


Picked a good weekend to focus on it. ACL festival is in Austin this weekend and I can hear the entire show from my place since it's only 1.5 miles away.

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Congrats on the progress! :) Where are you living now? I thought you were up north for some reason. I'm about a mile from Zilker myself and listening to the bass beat through my windows as I type. :)

Thanks, hopefully soon its back on the road and I can join you on a track. was reading your thread and it's great to hear your car is doing so well. I'm over at Lamar and Oltorf area back behind Blacksheep kinda. I just work up north over at 183 and Oak Knoll

Looks good!
I'm anxious to see what you do with the exhaust......H pipe?

Exhaust is something I haven't even thought about yet beyond the fact that my current 3" with x-pipe and full madrel tails is not going to work. I might see if I can move the X more forward and clear and most likely run dumped mufflers for a while. I'm more focused on how to convert the brakes to full manual and swap to the 6 piston 12.88 front brakes. I'm going to need to change the pedal ratio and I want to run new 3/16 brake lines all around. Lots to do to get it back on the road....snow ball is in full effect

Made a little more progress this weekend. All parts are painted up. Crossmember is welded upon the rear. Slowly putting the parts back on tightening up the bolts for the last time (I hope). Subframe connectors have been capped off, aluminum body mounts were cut down 3/16 to fit the TA front crossmember and subframe has been realigned (not shown). I also dropped off my driveshaft to have the u-joints changed and rebalance to match the 1350 yoke on the 9" center sections. Luckily I don't have to change the length of the shaft at all, I was shocked to see there was still ~1" clearance at the trans with it test fitted with the old u-joint.

Still need to pack the rear wheel bearing, tighten all the bolts on the rear rotors and do the final mount on the rear calipers but decided to do this on the car after the front brakes are all installed. Tonight I'll be installing the pumpkin in the rear and installing the TA.

I also bit the bullet and purchased the new 6 piston/12.88 front brake kit from MCB on Friday. I opted for the 2nd gen Camaro kit but decided to swap from 1.1 rotors to 1.25 by swapping out the Rotors to the Spec 37, changed the hat offset and swapped the calipers. I also changed from the standard pads to the Poly-E compound to match the rear. To match the kit I decided on a manual 7/8 tandem MC and picked up some bulk 3/16 line to rerun for the entire car. Thinking of lines, I'm probably going to run all new 3/8 fuel lines and a new fuel/axle vent setup while I'm at so it all looks pretty and make me feel more comfortable.

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Looks awesome Steve!

x2 me likey!

Are you planning to add sub-frame connectors back in later on or...?

Thanks for the complements.

I will be tying the frames back together but I'm going to wait until I finish installing the front Chicane coilover bracket just in case there are any issues. I'm not going to weld them back because I need to be able to drop the front frame in order to swap the trans. I didn't know this when I bought the kit but it should not impact me too much. I'm planning to weld 4 pieces of 1/4" x1-1 1/4" flat bar to the front subframe then use some ~6" Grade 8 bolts to thru bolt it to the subframe connector stub that's remaining. I wish I could weld it back but since I saw something similar on Stielow's car I'm pretty comfortable with bolting it...

Is this somehow due to transmission choice or the design of the rear TA kit that requires the front subframe to be removed in order to pull a transmission? Thanks.

It's a combination of things I think, hopefully I can explain it ok. I have 1/2 height alum body mounts which already makes it tight to even get the trans x-member in. The trans I also a T56 Mag which extends very close to the front TA x-member. I could not pull the trans with the x-member in since I need to pull the input shaft out of the bellhousing and droop the rear of the trans. On top of this the DSE connectors are welded in and tight to the floor like the front subframe now is. The front x-member for the T/A is almost like a c-channel and wraps around a floor support where body mounts are and uses the body mounts/bolts to hold it up. Its a nice design in that it's very tight to the floor and avoids issues with exhaust clearance other systems have. Problem with the c-channel is the sides are too tall to get past the floor support without dropping the frame due to the smaller body mounts. With the back 2 frame mounts removed removing/installing the TA x-member is very easy.

Scared me there for a minute.......

I'm considering the torque arm for my '71 however the trans situation could be a deal breaker.

So do you think if you had stock height body mounts it would solve the issue?
Do you have to remove that "torque arm crossmember" (for lack of correct name) regardless?

I think it would work with stock body mounts but it is tight. I never asked Blake or Roger when I purchased the kit because I didn't think it was an issue. I'd recommend asking them to be sure. I was very frustrated when I discovered it was an issue. Sucks to buy a bolt in kit then hack up the car to make it fit. Hopefully my plan will work out ok becuase I do like how well the x-member fits the floor as compared the to issues Carbuff ran into with the JRS kit. I thought to remake the crossmember with weld on mounts to the frame like was done for "Stance" but decided it was easier to reweld the frame later than to have to buy another x-member if I screw it up.

All in all I am happy with the kit. If it was being put on a completely stock car it would be easy. Only 3 things that have frustrated me so far are the front x-member, bad pics in the instructions (I will be sending Roger some pics from my ride to see if it helps) and the large gap I had to fill in to mount the rear x-member for the coilovers/panhard bar. All seem to have a solution that was not too difficult

Well if it performs like we hope, all the hassles will be forgotten.

Thanks for being the Guinea pig!

thanks for sharing all the pics and what you learned.

My pleasure. I can't wait to drive is and provide those details. If I can just make up my mind on the front setup I can continue progress. I have a feeling AFX spindles with high clearance LCA/UCA are in my future....My bank account it going to kill me...

Do it!!!:G-Dub:

I assume you have the high clearance/AFX setup, right? How do you like it, what wheel/tire are you running and any fender/frame mods to the car?

Assuming you don't mind I ask......

Thanks for the good feedback and info. Knowing stuff like this really helps out.

As seen in the suspension section, round 2 of the build will be starting soon. Because of everyone else's builds on this site I can't leave well enough alone and am changing the front setup. Good thing I'm not married, have no kids and my dog is very forgiving. If my dog starts to resent the car I'm going to blame all of you.

I called Kim at MCB (great to work with) and I decided to purchase the Speedtech high clearance upper and lower control arms along with the AFX spindle, and revised idler arm/pitman arms. Since I also wanted to match the front brakes more to the new rears I also picked up a set of Wilwood 13.08" 6 piston front brakes with Poly -E pads to match the spindles. I decided to ditch the hydroboost brakes and have a 7/8 Wilwood MC on the way as well.

Unfortunately (kinda) with the new brakes I also need to get new wheels since the current wheels won't clear the calipers. I'm thinking a set of CCW LM20's will be ordered as soon as the suspension is in place and I can measure everything up. I'm also debating if mini tubs should be installed since wheels are a big purchase. This will be decided based on the tires. I'm debating between a 275/315 combo or a 285-295/335 combo (I'm told it may fit....). It seems I need to decide what tire I'm going to run to figure the sizing out. The 615K seems to have the 315/275, the Rival has the 335/295 and the R888 has all of the above and a little more but is it really what usable for street/track

The last piece I picked up was a dual vent for my fuel tank and rear axle from from Finch. Just got it today and the piece looks very nice in person. I can't wait to get it installed Brian was very busy with SEMA and Baja but made time to call me up and chatted for a while about car setups and all the fun he'll be having over the next few weeks.


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He's what the wheel will most likely look like.

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A little more of the progress

Cleaned up the fuel lines, reinstalled the fuel tanks. I rerouted the battery cables and fuel pump wires from under the car to inside the car. I also had to extend the driveshaft 1.5 inches to fit the new yoke.

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I found the exhaust will need to be cut up and I don't think a x-pipe will work with the TA but I need to check a little more. That will be done after I decide to mini tub or not....

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Finally, I also spent a little time pulling the front suspension off. My buddy is going to buy all my hold stuff (front, rear and wheels/tires) for his 73 Bird so it really helps my budget (or lack there of). This week I hope to get the spring pockets cut out for the Chicane kit so I can prep for the next round of parts.

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Front Suspension fully removed.

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I forgot to mention above that I also bought the high clearance front sway bar as well to fit the big meats. Next big picture post will be all the new front end pieces.

Progress is good!

If you want to trial fit a 315 on an 11.5" wheel, I can stop by with TOW sometime and we can pop one off and see how it fits. I'm out of town this weekend, but next week would work. I wanna check out all the new pieces too!

That would be awesome. I was thinking to use a 11.5 wheel also so I could swap between a 335 and 315 (I'm told it will work). I'll gladly take you up on the offer whenever you have time. The quality of my ride isn't near as good as yours so you're not allowed to laugh too much. At least I'm safe that Weld won't be with you to point out all my car's issues like he does to others......

It's Dave and Rob you have to watch out for, they will spend an hour crawling around under your car if you don't watch out! Greg just makes fun of things like air cleaners, but you can't really trust his judgement since he's such a big fan of The Salt Lick. :disgusted:

Front past experience, it's pretty tough to get a 315 to fit without cutting a wheel well lip and pounding in the seat buckle bump if you have one. Even then, it's still tight, but the panhard will help. We'll stick one up and see what it looks like to you. :) Maybe next weekend if you can wait that long?