Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 506990)

Those high end cars you see with the mat finish do not come with a paint warranty on the mat finish because if you get bird poop or you name it on them you can't just have it buffed out. It has to be repainted or you live with it.

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 506990)

Just remember you are clear coating the car twice!! You will have a lot more labor cost with doing a mat finish. The car needs to be cleared like normal with "shinny clear" then sanded flat and cleared with the mat clear.

Also it "WILL" break down over time, with the elements and environment the mat clear does not hold up as good as regular clear coat.

Those high end cars you see with the mat finish do not come with a paint warranty on the mat finish because if you get bird poop or you name it on them you can't just have it buffed out. It has to be repainted or you live with it. The Mercedes Benz has 10 page disclaimer that you sign when you buy the car so you understand what is covered and what is not.

Hope this helps, and I have not painted my car mat but I did stay at a Hoilday Inn last night :hello:

Originally Posted by kush69 (Post 507521)

I have sprayed spies hecker matt clear over basecoat with no problems ,single paint job, the drawback is that the paint job has to be pretty flawless no sand and polish on any dirt or runs and no spot repairs

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 507537)

^^^^^ That's why the paint company's recommend to clear it first then reclear with the mat clear. Also you do not have the same UV protection when you only clear it with mat clear.

I never said you couldn't just use mat clear I just stated the correct way to do it. As I said I did stay in a Holiday Inn!! :D

Originally Posted by Musclerodz (Post 507659)

What paint companies? PPG DCU2060 and Global D8115 mention nothing about pre clearing with gloss prior to matte clearing in their instructions.

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 507685)

Sikkens, and Glasurit, and Standox. As for car manufacturers Hyundia with their Matte Veloster, BMW, and Mercedes Benz.

Mike if you are to ask your PPG rep they would tell you to do it this way. To use the product you do not have to clear with gloss clear first, but if you are doing a complete car you will not have the same UV protection if you only use Matte clear.

Also you will not get the same smooth finish just going matte clear directly over base coat as you will going over sanded clear coat!

As I said I have not painted "my" car with Matte but I have done quite a bit of testing and more then ten matte jobs at a few customers. :thumbsup:

Again "can" you do it without clear coating with gloss clear YES, will it give you the best and most durable finish NO!

Just trying to help on a subject I know about, that's all.

Originally Posted by Musclerodz (Post 507708)

I have not used the other brands matte clear, only PPG. I would hope the PPG rep would not tell me to apply in a different manner stated in their instructions.

http://www.benspaintsupply.com/wp-co...lear+11+12.pdf

http://www.automotivepaintandequipme...and%20Flat.pdf

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 507728)

Mike those are just the TDS sheets for the products. What I'm talking about is the process of how you go about repairing or doing a complete paint job on a Matte cleared car from one of the OE company's to repair or repaint. This process would be the same if you were redoing a MB or doing a custome car.

I have not tested PPG's matte clear but I have a couple of friends that are tech reps for them and we have had talks about this. They have the same recommendation as most of the paint company's.

In most cases we (the paint company's) have just adapted what the OE's have put out as to how repair their Matte paint on their cars.

Yes I agree that I would hope your rep would not tell you something that is not on the TDS sheet, but this would come from their repair proses sheet not the product data sheet. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by Musclerodz (Post 507832)

The global sheet does not mention it, but the sheet for 2060 mentions it can be applied directly over basecoat. A concern I would have if you are trying to achieve a dead flat result, would be the fresh gloss undercoat gassing out and raising the gloss level of the matte top coat as it cures. The matte is very finicky in application and mixing to achieve even levels of finish over large surfaces. I have shot the outside of one car matte. It was over gloss that had already cured over one year, and it was a two-tone gloss/matte finish, but have shot plenty of engine compartments and interiors straight over basecoat with excellent results. It also helps to use appropriate cleaners for matte finishes as well. I really like wizards matte detailer to keep surfaces clean.

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 507898)

As of now I have not seen any changing of the gloss level with the reclearing. I have checked a few cars that have been done with this proses, two of which were done over six months ago and look great even through the summer.

As for matte over base, you can go over it with no issues and I have done lots of engine compartments as well and they look great. I have done quite a few bikes as well directly over base with great results. Both of these are not prone to UV light all the time, the bike for sure but most aren't kept out side with a custom paint job.

The biggest reasons for clear coating and then sanding and reclearing with matte is you get that very smooth surface which let's the matte clear lay down so much flatter and smoother, and the best UV protection you can get.

I have not tried the wizard product for matte clear?? I will have to get some and check it out. The only products I seen and tried were from Hyundia, BMW, and MB. But all come as a kit and are very costly, well the BMW and MB were. :lol:

Originally Posted by analyte (Post 508617)

I'm not here to argue, but I question how good the information is that you're reps are sharing. I've sprayed matte clear both in the OEM plants and refinsih, and I've never heard what you've stated. I call foul on the UV argument and will blame their lack of knowledge on the assumptionthat they have no technical or chemistry background.

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 509649)

Sorry I just saw your response.

First let me start by saying when I talk about the process here this is the recommendation of three paint manufacturers and three OEM's on how to "repair" a car painted with a matte finish from the OE. This is not something that I'm just saying on a forum! This is in Hyundai's, BMW, and Mercedes Benz technical bulletin on how to properly repair a matte finish at the collision level shop.

I have to admit I've never seen the technical bulletin's from the OEM's, but we don't repair them in the plant like that. Not sure why they recommend that process, but I'm sure going to check it out. Thanks!!

If you have worked or painted at the OE level then you know that that is a different process altogether from what is done at the collision level?

No doubt about that....lol

In a lot of the matte clear coats that are out there today do not have the same UV blockers in them as your traditional "shiny" clear coat. Just the same as your lower cost or "cheap clear coats" do hold up as well because they have very little UV blockers in them to keep the cost down. I'm not saying all but some do not.

Not sure who is telling you this, but I just don't get the logic in this statement. You'd be surprised to here that UV blockers aren't changed that often between coatings, regular clear or matte clear.

As far as can you use just matte clear over base coat with out clear coating first yes you can I have said that already. What I was talking about is the "best" process for make it last and look the best for years to come.

I may spray a panel with and without reg clear underneath to see how much difference it makes. If it's not visually noticable, I may run in in the WOM for a week or so to see if weather conditions have an effect or not.

As far chemistry back nope not me, but I do work with some very smart guys in that department :thumbsup:


Now as far as technical I know a thing or two to get me enough trouble :lol:

Originally Posted by Rick D (Post 506990)

Just remember you are clear coating the car twice!! You will have a lot more labor cost with doing a mat finish. The car needs to be cleared like normal with "shinny clear" then sanded flat and cleared with the mat clear.

Also it "WILL" break down over time, with the elements and environment the mat clear does not hold up as good as regular clear coat.

Those high end cars you see with the mat finish do not come with a paint warranty on the mat finish because if you get bird poop or you name it on them you can't just have it buffed out. It has to be repainted or you live with it. The Mercedes Benz has 10 page disclaimer that you sign when you buy the car so you understand what is covered and what is not.

Hope this helps, and I have not painted my car mat but I did stay at a Hoilday Inn last night :hello:

Originally Posted by Moabdude (Post 506908)

My 69 Nova is at the paint shop and its about time to decide what color and finish I want on the car.

I am thinking of gun metal gray(with a little metallic) with black Mopar stripes on the hood.
As a finish I think its really cool to use matt clear coat. I saw an very expensive Mercedes who was painted gray metallic with matt clear coat. Very very cool!!

Does any one have any experience with matt finishes and would you do it again if you had to paint your car again?

Please advice.
Thanks