I'm Starting Some Trouble....
 

I know we have some die hard "make/model" purists on here. You know the kind who has a heart attack when someone else builds a car the way they want to with their hard earned money. Yes, the kind that puts a LS motor in a Ford or the one that takes out a 440 6-pack out of a one owner Mopar and replaces it with a brand, spankin new fuel injected Hemi. Yeah, I'm talking about the purists who feel they have a right of passage to the owner should build the car they want to see the car and not the way the owner himself wants it. LOL!! Are you that kind of person? LOL!! Well, anyway...watch this video. I'd figure it would piss off some of you Mustang purists. Hahahahah!!




Here's the link to the internet story...>>>>http://wot.motortrend.com/ford-musta...#axzz2gr9oE6bh
The word “modern” doesn’t really come to mind when thinking about classic muscle cars, but car company Equus is set on changing that with the Bass770, a an old-school muscle car lookalike supposedly built to modern supercar standards. Not only is it a mash-up of old and new, but the car is also combines elements of the Mustang and Corvette.

With a fastback body and horse emblems on the front grille and rear decklid, the Bass770 resembles the fastback version of the Ford Mustang that started it all. Unlike the muscle cars of yesteryear, the Bass770 utilizes a lightweight aluminum body that’s lined with carbon fiber. Equus tells us the car has been in development for six years.

While the Bass770 is all Blue Oval on the outside, it’s all about the Bowtie underneath the hood. The LS9 6.2-liter supercharged V-8 and Magnetic Ride Control were borrowed from GM, with the tribute to the Mustang fastback’s 640 hp and 605 lb-ft of torque roughly matching the 2013 Chevrolet Corvette’s ZR1′s 638 hp and 604 lb-ft. Power is sent to the wheels via a six-speed dual-clutch transmission, and Equus says its modern supercar can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.4 seconds.

Although the interior stays retro with analog-style gauges, old-school air vents, and an old-fashioned ball shift knob, the dashboard is covered in black leather and the headliner in Alcantara. The Bass770 can also be had in a bespoke version, in which the owner is paired with a designer who can customize the car to give it a racing-ready look or, as Equus suggests, “extreme luxury refinement” or a complete new design. The regular model costs $250,000 while the bespoke variant carries a $300,000 price. Check out the Bass770 — the Mustang-like supercar with a Corvette ZR1 heart — in the gallery and video below.



Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/ford-musta...#ixzz2grG2BYSJ
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i do enjoy this car. it has some great aspects of old muscle (arguably the best of each piled together) with an amazing powerplant and performance.

i did not so much enjoy the movie but do enjoy seeing more of the Horse.

Yes, the car is crazy. The movie wasn't too bad. I did enjoy the part when the cop took off in the 'Stang and was burning rubber through the streets though. You gotta admit, that was some cool driving. By the way, welcome to the site. What part of Dallas are you in? I'm in Dallas too.

as long as it works and does it well powerplant shouldnt matter. remember the 2jz in a mustang?

Marcus I had a vendor telling me about the cars yesterday, but it hadn't seen one yet. Thanks for posting!

RingBros Pantera supposedly has an LS3. I'm at the opposite end of the scale from a purist, but ... haven't we evolved enough that we don't have to put a small block Chevy in every hotrod just because it's easy?:underchair:


Jeff-

No....we put a LS engine in everything because it is the best engine on the planet. :-)

WHAT HE SAID ^^^^^^^^^^^ Except it's really the best engine in the entire UNIVERSE! <Thanks Al>




They even fit in Ford hot rods!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...io/file-32.jpg

^^^What Charlie & Greg said!!! :mock:

They even fit in a classic Jag, but the Jag club has absolutely no sense of humor.

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Pappy

Don't forget the LS powered rocking chair -- the most important development of this century or any other.

As for the car, is it Bass or Bass?

Bass:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/Resources...emouthBass.jpg

Bass:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....ubwoofer_3.jpg

Cool car. The name I'm not so sure about though. Actually, I am sure. I think it's dumb. Seriously, Bass? WTF?

There are better motors in the world than the LS, but the LS purists wouldn't replace their LS with one of 'em.


:tv_happy:

And a example of a better engine ?

Ok, most of you are waaayyy more savvy than me and have owned more hotrods than I could dream to, but you're telling me that the LS is the holy grail and Ford has not made a single modern engine that even comes close?

I get how easy and bulletproof they are. I have an LS project in the works myself but it is a Chevy. When I see nicely done Ford (usually pre-war, usually a really nice build) and they've dropped an LS in there (with all the bullsh!t plastic covers still on it) I think "that's a shame, you had a chance to do something here"...

I am not picking on GW here, his latest is super super nice. It could have a Briggs and Stratton and it wouldn't take away from it.


Jeff-

I see The Skippah has yet to defend his "there's something better than an LS" claim.... HA! Good luck with that one!




Jeff ----


Roy and I did discuss the "Ford in a Ford".... only just because. However, the modern Fords are too wide for the little hot rod noses... and there just aren't a variety of parts so now you get into all manor of custom pieces - thus driving up the cost.

That left the option of doing "old skool" Ford -- such as a Roush -- but his motor prices are beyond ridiculous... AND I met a guy at L A Roadster show that had issues with his Roush - they wouldn't stand behind it - he had it torn down and it was nothing but a factory crate motor internally. So needless to say -- whether this was true or not (I believe it to be fact) I've had enough issues with '32 and wanted this build to be as trouble free as I could TRY to make it.

If Ford made a perfect engine they might make some money.

What makes the 5.0L Coyote and "not so perfect" engine?

Greg,

As you can see from the pic, I'm a happy, upbeat kinda guy; and these debates often aren't internet friendly, so I'd rather discuss it in person.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ps7407fea4.jpg

That way we can always hug it out if the discussion ends badly.

:thankyou:

I've been involved in this hobby a long time, and if I had a dollar for every 34' ford I've seen with a small block chevy in it...

This has been going on for decades. Why? I'm not sure, maybe it's the dollar amount involved. Maybe it's because GM built gazillions of the sbc's. I've never been involved with a ford project of my own that required an engine swap, but I think that if I were building a ford, it would be ford powered. But I definitely get what your saying GW.

Keep in mind guys that this LS engine you speak of has been out since late 96'.
That's 17 years. Shoot, it's already being replaced by the new gen5 LT engines.

true, but look how long the Ford flat head was the big dog.

We can just start with the simple fact that it's FIVE INCHES WIDER than the LARGER displacement 6.2L LS3 480hp motor!

There isn't a spare 5" width (as measured at the valve cover to valve cover) just hanging around --- in many applications - and particularly in 30's hot rods that are already pinched in the nose...

Why go to all the work and expense just to prove some pointless point?

The LS motor is cheap - small - reliable - doesn't leak - is easy to source a multitude of parts for... headers - accessory drives - and on and on....

So the Coyote 5.0L motor is 412hp and costs $6300 and I can buy a 480hp LS3 crate motor that's easier in every way to install for $300 more.... There's really not much of a compelling reason for the "Ford in a Ford" in my book.

The mod motor sucks for hot rodders because it isn't a small block Chevy. :lol:

If you want big power numbers out of a mod motor you're looking at big dollars for an n/a build, or well, a blower motor, which isn't cheap either.

Hot rodders also love big cubes and with the mod motors bore spacing, that becomes an issue.

Mod motors cost a lot of money to work with.

Plus I agree with Greg, I just did a valve spring replacement in my dads 07 F150.... on cylinder #4, The tool was grossly expensive, not to mention you cant even get both hands any wear near anything unless your freakishly small!

SBX or LSX till I die.

Everyone thinks the SBF or SBC/BBC are obsolete unless you spend time on various racing forums. I dont mind seeing an LS9 in a Mustang, but if I see one more 5.3l swap, Im going to puke, lol.

The 8.2" deck SBF is an awful practical engine for a swap into a car with limited space. A 331 SBF with High Port heads will easily hit 500hp and isnt particularly expensive. They sound wonderful shifting at 8000rpm.

The LS is a great motor and is very cost effective. I am often baffled when I see a $100k+ car build and then they dump a crate LS3 into it. As an example they have come out with an updated W409 motor bored to 509ci. The engine puts out near 700hp, is available in all aluminum with efi. Butler Performance is doing similar with Pontiac motors. Another vendor is coming out with new Oldsmobile stuff.

A few years ago, the Gen 4 motor made every Gen 3 obsolete. In the near future the Gen 5 may do the same. Using the cars original engine architecture with new high performance blocks, heads and efi make for a more timeless car build, It also honors the heritage and DNA of the car. For the record, I am not a numbers matching guy.

I am working on a C2 Corvette with a 700hp+ SBC with 8 stack efi and have a chrome bumper C3. The C3 will get a 900hp+ BBC. I stuck with traditional modernized engines for the reasons stated above. Both engines are/will be NA, built with off the shelf parts!

For the record that Mustang with the LS9 could have been built with a 650hp 9.5" deck SBF for a lot less money. The weight argument is moot when you factor in LS9 dry sump and supercharger weight.

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You could order the drag pack motor with the 8 stack and still be $3k-$4k under the cost of the LS9 with all of the hardware. Either engine is available in aluminum.

Ford engineers need to go back to the drawing board and start making something that will work. An inexpensive, compact, 390+ cube aluminum engine.

HP/$ the LSx platform wins every time with EFI. You might be able to do better if you stay carbed with other options but I doubt it. Modern Ford motors are overly complex mechanically. There's nothing superior about the design of a Mod motor and to me, that's sad. I say this because it costs so much to modify one that it drives your hobbyist away compared to many other readily available alternatives be it a SBC/LSX or even a traditional SBF/BBF. People used to believe that OHC was the future given its advantages. The LSx platform crushed that idea. VVT is further proving that OHC is not necessary. Ford went with the "advanced" design and have ended up with an overly complex engine. It's obviously not hurting sales of their vehicles which is all they care about but we are concerned with other factors. The Mod motor just doesn't work for a lot of people. I do like seeing them, for instance Matt's mustang, but I understand the reasons they aren't around as much as the LSx.

Now EcoBoost is cool. That's not motor design though.

Sorry and don't take this personally because it's not meant to be -- but I have to call BS right there at the W409 aluminum block with EFI -- because I called Mister Walden -- the birth father of that particular motor and spoke to him personally and was quoted "Around 50 GRAND" for that particular motor.....


So let's not even consider that as a viable alternative for ANYTHING!

And ya know -- I got to thinking about it --- and the quote might have been 35 GRAND --- It was a couple summers ago....


EITHER WAY -- I couldn't get off the phone fast enough....:confused18: :rofl:

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This engine is $21.5k as depicted but is all aluminum. Ive seen other vendors doing iron blocks for less. I didnt say it was cheap, but it is not astronomical either.

Oh yeah -- but you just forgot to add the aforementioned EFI.... Can't really compare carb motors to EFI.

Ok add $3k for the FAST 1.0 and 2nd TBI option.

BTW -- I was just yanking your chain! But you know this group is going to hold everyones feet to the fire!

HAHAHAHAHA --- Okay -- that's MORE THAN THREE TIMES what I just spent for a LS3....

Jerry, for the simple fact the LS9 is supercharged, of course a carbed or 8 stack will be cheaper. The supercharger is $7k alone. So, there's the difference right there.

He's not going to win his case...... no matter how hard he's going to try.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <laughing like that trucker dude on Ice Road Truckers>

Your right Gregg, lol. Progress starts in baby steps!! Here is some real sacrilege as a C2 Corvette or any other Corvette model never had a W motor.

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I love following the high end C6 Corvette FI builds where they are hitting 1100rwhp+ and are forced to revert back to a modified Power Glide or Turbo 400 to handle all of the horsepower, lol. I shall not bring up the venerable Ford 9".

I know right GW. Also, The LS9 is packed with forged goodies in order to handle boost. Therefore, making it ultimately more expensive. A carbed motor that Jerry is harping about can be built with basic bottom to middle parts for N/A if someone wanted to save money.

Also, comparing EFI/supercharged motors to carbed-N/A motors is like comparing 3-piece wheels to cast wheels. Of course one is more expensive than the other. There's just no comparison in general. Will a carbed motor get the job done just like a cast wheel will...yes. Is it necessary to spend $12-$20k or more on an EFI or supercharged motor like it's necessary to spend $8k-$10k or more on 3-piece wheels...no. See where I'm going with the comparison thing?

I'm going through this debate right now - Last build of my SBF I put on too big of heads and with low CR and a small cam I have classic low end sogginess. At this point in my life I think I would really appreciate a full on OEM programmed combination - With the twins, I am never lacking for all out power, but I want it to have GREAT throttle response and OEM manners rather than me programming it on an aftermarket EFI and guessing at a good combo. The two options are LS or Coyote, and the Coyote will just not fit (custom tube chassis).

But a Mustang like mine cannot have an LS motor...Tried it in my mind, couldn't do it. So when I get back to the engine I'm thinking of ponying up having Kaase or someone equivalent take my good parts and specify a killer top end combination but even with pro help programming it will never match OEM based EFI LS driveability and startup and mileage. I love the idea that with modern heads and cam technology and a sheet metal or ITB manifold, I can have something a little wonderful compared to the past, but its definitely not going to be as ea$y as the modern LS combos.

So I hate to agree with the argument, but brand heritage is the ONLY reason I don't go with an LS. Plus, I guess its a little bit more interesting when bench racing to have the old skool motor. And that Coyote makes good power, and winds up high, but...its still just a 5.0 too.