LSA Crate engine
 

I know a few guys have used this motor, I am suprised I have not seen more. For the price it seems like a great choice and something that has the potential to make a ton of power. what are you thoughts, is it a much harder swap than a LS3?
thanks

the price you are seeing probably doesn't include the cost of the accessory drive,heat exchanger water pump and the heat exchanger if its the $12000 unit. figure adding another 2-3k on top of that for a front runner system and needed components.

I been doing research on the LSA...as there been any reported problems when boosting up the HP...

There is always a need for more horsepower but this engine pulls hard from the bottom and runs great in stock form. I think this is the best bang for the buck in the crate engine. It's 100hp short of the LS9 for half the cost. Bracket system and ECU from GM are all very reasonable.

Rodger

Do you know what guys did with there LSA to get the 700-800hp...I would be happy with the stock power but I would be really really happy at 700-800hp...but only if i can do it without blowing up the engine and min mods i saw them saying that changed the pulley and instant 800hp...how true is this? Hey and thanks for the insight...Im looking at the package deal on jegs for the LSA/transmission combo...

Lingenfelter sells a package.its more then a dampener to get 800hp.

Buy the engine from Fairway Chevrolet in Las Vegas. Ask for Jason in parts, tell him I told ya.

The LSA is a great motor. From what I can tell (if you trust the interwebs) a cam/pulley and fuel system to support it will have you'll be in the vicinity of the power being talked about (not that we really need it).

I was going to go the N/A LS3 route and FI later, but have decided for the relatively small amount of extra dollars in now an LSA will pay dividends later. I've got to fabricate a firewall/cowl, headers/exhaust, build a fuel system, cooling stack set-up, custom dry sump drive, wire in an ECU/tune...might as well only do it once.

The guys making 700-800 in their CTSV's look to be in street cars/weekend drag type things so I wouldn't expect it to last on a road course at that level. I'm planning on running a more modest power level close to stock but will be working it a bit harder on track. If it pops it's a good excuse for an ERL short block.

You could always run one of these pulley hubs an have a high/low boost set-up (turbo guys would laugh at you on the side of the road with an allen wrench though)

http://d3groupinc.com/d3-pulley-kits/

Crate Engine Depot has it at $10,795 but as far as I can tell this doesn't include the twin plate clutch which I've seen some others do/did. Either way it sounds like Fairway would look after you too.

My next problem would be how to get 800hp with an automatic transmission... but the Lingenfelter package sounds to expensive...maybe I was misled the guy with the 68 convertible camaro on big muscle said he changed the pulley and polished the supercharger and he was pushing 800hp--648rwhp 650tq...maybe he was wrong...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0asSuSBNO0

Yeah 640hp to the wheels on a 275. 800hp with a smaller pulley on the blower.

The blower pulley is pressed on the blower you have to put a larger dampener to change the ratio. I'm gonna say the story is enhanced.

800ft/torque with automatic transmission is a Bowler transmission, but again it is costly.

The youtube article is BS! My LS3 418 with the Harrop TVS 2300 Dynoed around 700 hp and 800 ft/lbs of torque and I was at 15 psi. To get in the 800 horsepower range, then it takes an LS7 block. Similar to what Stielow has in his.

The LSA or LS9 superchargers are positive displacement, so polishing the inside of the supercharger won't increase the horsepower of the engine. Source is Brian Thompson of Thomson Automotive. The LSA features the smaller supercharger, it is called the TVS 1900. While the LS9 has the TVS 2300 is bigger in displacement. The weak part of the LSA engine is that it uses cast pistons and powder metal rods. The rods are good for around 600hp, but if you push the engine to 800hp. Then you need a good US made forged rod. forged pistons, forged crank,etc.

The cost factor for the LSA is rather low, but if you plan to build an 800 hp supercharged engine, then build a custom engine with 800HP as the goal. It is more costly, but it can't be done with the LSA engine.

Jeff

I don't really need 800hp but it sounds nice it think in the 600 range is good...I was just curious about it...I think a stock LSA will be good for what i want just a smooth, engine with some power to show off a bit...I have a 600hp 468 BBC like 13:1 compression it just big hulk of an engine everything vibrating and rattling around not a very comfortable ride...

I test drove Brian Thomson's Chevelle, but it is an LSX 454 with LS9 blower and LS7 heads. Idles rather nice around 650 rpm, you can't tell it has this much power. There is no vibration as you would get in big roller cam engine. I had a 383 small block with full roller and 12.5 to 1 compression, it would rattle the entire car. Brian's drives rather nice, but he has rubber engine mounts, well, if you saw Camaro XV thread it has those mounts as well. My 67 Camaro has new rubber mounts as well.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl...y_chevelle_ss/

The LSA should be fine, but regardless there is lot of added cost for radiatoor intercooler setup, pulley setup, custom airbox, harness etc. I saw one guy post 2 to 3k in this thread. His figures were a bit low.




Jeff

The only difference is the Intercooler on the front of the core support. And if your going to use an Auto Rad coresupport I think they offer this as an additional option now days. The Harness, Air box and everything else will need to be built no matter what LS engine you run. The Front drive system is just 200 bucks more expensive then a standard bracket system. The Harness is just a bit more expensive then a standard LS3. Now the LS9 stuff is alot more expensive but it is a much better assembly but at double the cost.

I think this is the BEST BANG for the buck crate engine out there.

Rodger

A little off topic, but I thought the LS9 blower was only applicable to the LS3 type heads and not LS7. I know LS9 has it's own set of heads, but the port configuration is what I'm talking about.

Jake's Transmission in TX can also build stout 4L80E transmissions to handle 1000rwhp+ for a reasonable price.

rpm transmissions does all the high hp gm transmissions on alot of builds. they are located in anderson indiana..

http://www.rpmtransmissions.com/#!

The problem that I found is that not all radiator companies were willing to build a radiator with the intercooler setup. Actually, I only found Autorad was willing to build it. Ron Davis was willing to build the radiator, but not in Air to water intercooler setup. I got a price for an intercooler from Bell Intercoolers, but by the time that you added the Ron Davis radiator it was more than the Autorad. Mark Stielow is using a Dewitt radiator on Camaro XV, so that is the other option.

Cost for the custom AutoRad is $2300. heat exchanger water pump is about $200, LSA fead system is about $1000 (http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3629-gm...e-system.aspx), Cost is more for A/C. Additional cost of $1000 if you plan to do A/C. Harness is about $1500, but Speartech has one for $3400. http://www.speartech.com/product_p/lsaharness.htm
Fuel tank with fuel pumps etc. LSA Fuel tank might be around $1200 or so. Mine was a bit more, but I have dual fuel pumps. Tuning, is around $400 to $800, etc.



So this figure is a bit off.
Jeff

Used LS7 heads with tall deck LSX block - since required spacers between SC and heads, they were made to adapt LS9 SC to LS7 heads.

For all those claims of 800 HP LSA engines (or even mid to high 700), just do the math with a 1.9L SC and you'll see why not so likely if even possible. You can even download compressor maps including adiabatic efficiency, drive losses, etc. from Eaton website.

We've done a whole lot of work at Thomson Automotive with Eaton using factory GM housings and Harrop housings with TVS rotors - I'll dig up some it the engineering data - but can tell you I've never seen a 1.9L LSA SC make that kind of power - regardless of engine size. Ever.

BTW, Brian's Chevelle makes 850 HP / 930 TQ on pump gas. And this was built before our latest learnings (like what we did in Stielow's latest engine in Mayhem). Confident we can get another ~80-100 HP with what we've learned there. After all, his car is kinda 'soft'......

Dave

Sparks because alot of guys read this stuff and may get pushed away from an LSA , let's be clear:

- inner cooler/heat exchanger will be required. The AutoRad is a smokin deal for what you get and only a bit more than a standard set up.
- the harness is required no matter what LS motor you buy and Speartech, while a great vendor with quality products, is way out of market. I know of a harness vendor that can do this for one third the price.
- there is absolutely no requirement for a custom front drive, but depending on the application some mods may be needed. You wanna play, you gotta pay. That's hot rodding.
- yes a fuel system to support the blower will be reqiured, but the Vaporworx CTSV pump will do just fine.

You are entitled to your opinion, but these expert posts of yours are confusing at best. There is more than one way to solve a problem.

No offense intended. Just straight talk, like Rodger's post.

:cheers:

Ron,

So why don't you build one for your car! Let's see if you can do it for $15,000. You seem to have the connections. New harness for $1000, that is less than GM cost.

PS. most of my parts that were quoted were GM parts, but like you said it is hot rodding. So you have your choice on parts, but if you can stay in budget of a turn key, new LSA engine at $15,000.

Jeff

Jeff I can't seem to build a NA LS motor for less than 15k, let alone a blower motor...:lol:

Well, in the previous post you seemed like you could do it. Here is the crate engine. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LSA-...10805C556.aspx

Just another $4205 to go! I am sure you can do it! I will be nice! You can hunt around for the parts and build it as post in this thread. You need a bill of materials and estimated labor costs. Although, I don't think it can be done for $15,000.

Jeff

Take a deep breath Jeff. Relax, ok?

Where exactly did we come up with a 15k limit for the OP? Tommycomfort (great guy) did a detailed costing of a L92 install and it came to 14k and he did the work himself.

My comment was simply to point out the delta is not as drastic as you made it out to be.

I can't believe anyone would take a 12.5:1 roller 383 and replace it with an LS motor. :lostmarbles:

Man that sounds like the right mill no need for the LSA. :thumbsup: :underchair:



:cheers:

Didn't we already do that thread? lol...

Im so lost in this thread now...but i like the LSA motor it seem it will come out to 25k-30k when its all said and done...

Isn't the internet grand?

Well If I were to buy the engine it would come from jegs because of the shipping to Hawaii and i pay a little for oversized items... LSA/4L85E w/controllers...I can do online price matching to get price down some...

Give Fairway a shot. Usually they are cheaper then my wholesale account from Summit.

Your going to get jacked on shipping either way.

Well, I had 612 hp with 520lbs torque with the 383, but it ran Turbo Blue. Now, I have an LS3 418 around 700 hp with 800 ft/lbs torque and I run 93 octane. Well, those dyno numbers are with the Harrop, but switching to the LS9 Blower with 11 rib pulley. So, we have to see.

Don't you even read on what people (Bsinclair) post in the thread...

So, where is your LSA engine or LS engine with a supercharger? Unless you have built one for your car, which I am in the process of doing for mine. I just want to be sure that seankc31 knows the costs that are involved.
:G-Dub::G-Dub:

Jeff

My customer and I are about to find out what it costs. We bought a low mile LS3 with lingenfelter top end on it about a year ago for a Camaro in the shop and just bought an LSA super charger kit this week for it. So the LS3 is coming apart for new rods, piston, cam, springs, valves, etc. Block is the later LS3 casting so i am hoping the oil squirter ports are already machined or I will be looking into having it done. Also probably looking into a new clutch as well. PRC rad will go away and order up an autorad unit in its place.

I can never under stand why things on the internet have to be such a pissing contest. It really simple.

LSA engine - 19260164 - 11465.00 - Dual disc clutch unit
Harness - 19259293 - 1492.05
Coolant pump - 20945282 - 261.00
LSA bracket system w/o AC - 19243525 - 950.00
ZL1 fuel pump - 19260557 -

The you can bolt some kind of cooler to the front of your core support and your ready to go.

The oil squirter have to be machined, if you use the Katech Oil Squirters. Brian Thomson machines them a bit different, but here is an article on it.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_12.../photo_04.html

Autorad works, but you have to make a custom hood latch for it. According to Jim at Autorad, my factory hood latch would clear the intercooler. Then I got a call from Matt at Sled Alley called and he have to make a custom hood latch similar to Mayhem. The center support won't clear the intercooler. Camaro XV center support also was modified to clear the intercooler with the Dewitt radiator. Actually, all of Stielow's builds had a custom hood latch. (Jackass, Red Devil, Mayhem, and Camaro XV). The latch is not that difficult, but you do have to modify the center support to make it work.

I read what Sean had posted in his thread.

The problem is that not all the aftermarket parts fit as planned. Yes, if you plan to build a supercharged engine, then you must fabricate parts for the intended application. So Sean see if there is a shop that has done this type of work in Hawaii. Another option Sean is to keep your big block and build a 496 with different cam.


Jeff

Not bragging, nor trying to start an argument, but my engine with Kenne Bell 3.6 supercharger will be near $30k once all buttoned up. The shortblock alone is $10k. Blower was $7500. $4k for a set of heads. There's $21.5 right there. By the time I add in a $2k+ Autorad, $1k clutch, $2k accesory drive, $1500 harness, valve covers, tuning, plug wires and coils, ARP bolts throught, nice Russell fittings, tuning and install, etc....you can see where I'm going, huh? And my car is just a street car. It will see no parts of a track ever. I'm just not a track guy....sorry. But, anyway, I can cut about $4500 off of that budget if I go with a resleeved GM LS7 block and not the RHS, but a supercharged motor isn't cheap buy any means or no stretch of the imagination. Trust and believe, I've thought about it and rethought about it daily. Still might go N/A becuz of the total price. I have a buddy of mine in Louisiana that's ready to buy my Kenne Bell if I decide to not do the supercharged engine. I'm still weighing my options as we speak. But, if I go N/A, I've got a BIG surprise for you guys.

I got the same feeling you got and now I'm questioning weather I really can afford it the LSA/4L85E... I been thinking bout going just with a normal LS3 setup but it isn't really what I want and I think it will still be over 15k to do that install...Why did i pick such an expensive hobby:lostmarbles:

Ohhh brother, you have no earthly idea.

It's an incurable sickness.

Lol! Don't I know it. Over $40k in mine so far and havent scratched the surface of what I want to do. Anyway, as someone once said, in the big scheme of things we are only here a short time. So if it makes our little worlds go around and makes us happy, its not wrong.