[Insert Cool Name Here] '69 Camaro LS1 Project
 

Well,
I'm making this build thread to start documenting my project. I've already asked a bunch of questions here: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=44069
but it's time to start doing something.

I purchased a 1969 RS Camaro a few weeks ago and I'm accumulating parts. Unfortunately, I'm on a pretty tight budget and my wad is mostly spent for the moment.

So far I have in my possession or have ordered:

Engine/Trans/ECM/Harness from a 2004 GTO

Holley 302-2 Oil Pan

Tanks inc tank with sending unit and 400lph Walbro

Manual brake and clutch pedal

Energy Suspension body mount kit

And misc other stuff I needed

I'm going to need some engine mounts and I'm leaning towards the Dirty Dingo sliders but haven't decided. I'm not going to be able to afford headers at the moment and would like to use factory manifolds; however, I would like some mounts that would work with headers in the future which is why I'm thinking the adjustables would be a good idea.

The other major thing I have to decide on soon is the wiring harness. I'm thinking about modifying the stock harness myself but I'll admit that it's a daunting prospect so any help on that would be awesome. Also, any ideas would be great on whether or not it's a good idea just to send out my ECM to have the modifications done or if it's worth it to buy some tuning software myself.

Anyway, here are some pix about as she sits at the moment.


https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...1&d=1385740584

https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...1&d=1385740584

https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...1&d=1385740584

https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...1&d=1385740584

https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...1&d=1385740584


I already have front discs and don't plan on messing with the suspension or body too much until a year or so from now when I've got enough money saved up again.

Project worth penny

sweet ride what you pay for it if you dont mind me asking

Are you implying that it's worth a single penny? :confused18: Haha.

I'll tell you that it was less than 20k but more than 10k. :secret:
The body has some bondo in it and a few rust bubbles in some of the normal spots but is otherwise and overall quite solid including the floor, rockers and trunk. The rear quarters have been replaced as well.

Back to the build.....

Anyone have recommendations on what to delete and what to leave in the PCM? I found someone locally that can take care of my PCM flashing needs.

I received my 302-2 oil pan and my clutch/brake pedal assembly yesterday. I should get some more goodies today.

I wish it would warm up a bit though. I'd be happy with any temperature greater than 20 degrees at this point! I have heat in my shop but its hard to get motivated to go down there and fire up the heater when its 0 degrees.

I'm still researching engine mounts and trying to decide what to do on that front. I did find out that with my GTO engine I can switch to a Corvette style MAF to get some pretty cheap HP. I'm liking that!

for the engine harness I say do it yourself. There are tons of info on the web on how to do it.

I did the one in my son's truck. I used the info on lt1swap.com. I had Zippy Performance in Las Vagas do the computer tune and delete the VATS and make a few other changes as recommended on lt1swap.com. I was not really hard, just very time consuming. I think all told I have about 12 hours in the finished harness. I could easily do one now in a lot less time. I printed out all the info that pertained to my harness and marked off the items as I went.

I have heard good things about the dirty dingo mounts. I built custom mounts for our swap as we set the motor back as far as we could and built a new firewall.

Good luck! The car looks like a nice place to start.

Thanks aggie,

I discovered lt1swap.com a few days ago and grabbed the pinout from this link:
http://www.lt1swap.com/2004gto_pcm_pinouts.htm

It doesn't really go through what to keep, and what to get rid of though it does tell you what you CAN get rid of. I've been looking for a step by step somewhere but everyone who posts info on it or makes a video seems to shortcut past all the stuff I'm curious about. I know how to do one BASICALLY but I need specifics. What if I want to keep the stuff that tells me what gear the transmission is in or what if I want to rig in a clutch sensor so I can safely add remote start later? What about A/C and fans? How do I include a relay/fuse box? Stuff like that.

I found a local guy to remove VATS for me just like you did but haven't found anyone to help me out with the harness. I might try posting in the Midwest section at LS1Tech and asking for a "mentor" to do my first one. Haha.

Most of that is on that site. You might have to dig thru the other areas, such as the truck harness step by step he did on the site: This link is updated more recently then when I did mine, now it is on facebook...:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...5211824&type=3

Here is the fuse block and OBDII port for the truck harness:
http://lt1swap.com/fuseblock_obd2port.html

Look at this page:
http://lt1swap.com/2000harness.htm

Thanks again aggie,
I found a guy to work with that really seems to know his stuff on reprogramming my ECM to work with Fans and A/C along with some other "enhancements" He's actually sending me the schematics for how I will need to wire the harness to match his calibration. So, HOPEFULLY, I'm no longer in ECM/harness limbo-hell.

I'm going to start another thread for this but does anyone have suggestions on what clutch setup to use for now? I split the transmission and engine this weekend and although it's not that old (plenty of wear left), it looks like the P/O didn't know how to drive a stick as it's got chatter and hot spots all over it. It seems no one resurfaces pressure plates anymore so I'm going to need to buy new stuff if I want to replace it.

My goals; eventually, are as close to 600 RWHP as I can get, but I won't need that kind of clutch performance for a while so i can go with a more factory option for now. What's reasonably priced and a good value?

LS7 clutch kit, strong, great value. GM part# 24255748

That part number comes up as an LS6 kit not an LS7?

Not sure why it shows ls6? But part # was for disc and pressure plate only.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...5748/overview/

Here is the clutch kit with pressure plate, disc and flywheel. Under $500.00.

http://www.tickperformance.com/gm-ls...-applications/

Not sure either. The links you put up now appear to be the LS7. It looks like a good value. I'm going to see if one of my local haunts will do some resurfacing for me and if not, I'll go with this.

Also,
I found the Fbody slave (as opposed to my current GTO one) at a local auto parts store for $67 bucks including the bearing. Now I just need to pick up a master cylinder, mounting bracket, and lines. Any suggestions on where to get it? I see Mcleod has them but they are expensive as usual. I suppose the adjustability would be nice though. Maybe I could just build adjustment in to my pedal?

O'Beer Miester...keep your eyes peeled on the Corvette forum and LS1tech for lightly used LS7 take out clutches. There's some good deals on there from time to time.

Speedtech sells the firewall bracket which allows for the angled 4th gen clutch master to be used:

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...rod/prd256.htm

OTOH, if you want an adjustable master ($$$), Tick or Macloed are your best options.

Last point, I'm wondering if the Goat TO bearing is any different? I know there are specific part numbers for starters which makes me wonder if the Bell or tranny input shaft is different?

Anyway I'm following along and rooting for your success!

:cheers:

Thanks Ron! Even after ribbing you I still get some help. You're an alright guy, I don't care what those other guys told me in PM's. :lmao:

I was actually just on the phone with speedtech and I think that's the way I'll go. They were nice enough to give me the part number for the GM master cylinder kit as wel.

I'm pretty sure the difference in the Goat stuff is just the slave and possibly the slave hookup so I'm just changing all of that to F-body stuff. As far as I can find, that will work. GTO stuff is like twice as much as F-body stuff for some reason so I'll just convert to F-body where I can. I'm even thinking about converting the shifter location to F-body so I can run short throws that aren't outrageous as well.

ETA: Just called up Jegs and got the bracket and master kit on order.

The GM part number for the 4th Gen F-body master cylinder/resivoir/line kit is: 12570277

I love Jegs and just in case whomever is reading this didn't know, they can get pretty much anything even if it isn't on their website or in their catalog. Just ask them to find it for you. I was able to order the master cylinder kit for around $100 cheaper from them than my local GM stealership and even cheaper than the ebay sellers. I've never had a bad experience with Jegs yet.

Oh,

And I just ordered this:

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/it...17/7328789.htm

Which is the part I need to move my shifter forward to the Fbody location.

So that I can order this:

http://www.mgwltd.com/camaro_short_throw_shifter.shtml

When I get to that point.

On another note, what transmission yoke did you guys use that are running the T56 in the firs gens?

Yeah I get that alot. Part of the fun around here! :lmao:

First time meeting Justin from Scott's he says, "man those guys like to give you a hard time!" :D :cheers:

Glad you got a plan and you're rolling...

Well,

I went ahead and ordered the trans-dapt stock location motor mounts, part number 4592. They were $64 so if they don't work like I want them to I'll get different ones or I'll just make my own plates to relocate everything since I'll have a pattern.

So far, engine mounts have been my least favorite thing to shop for. Everybody and their brothers, sisters and extended family makes a mount and there's stories all over about one working and the other not in different applications. Screw it. I'm getting these and if I don't like it I'll get out the mill and a welder.

Today I ordered a '69 Camaro 6 cyl. gas pedal so that I can connect by cable to my throttle body. I'll have to figure out which cable to use next.

I also splurged on the MGW short throw shifter. I know I shouldn't have and should have instead put that into a clutch but I'll be miserable without it. I'm spoiled after driving a Subaru 6 speed with a short throw for a few years.

On an unrelated note, I finally bought a "Zerk Zapper" tool to try to get grease into the fittings of my old truck. After my clutch incident yesterday, I really need to get some grease into those things.

Lokar
 

makes cable that will work. I like their (Lokar) gas pedal for a 1st Gen better than the stock 6 cylinder pedal as well.

Been there and done that.

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/thr...le-cables.html

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/dir...ro-pedals.html

Those are the one i used on my 2nd gen, 04 Goat LS1. Works good so far. The angle is a little off at the MAF, i may tweek later for better visual, but that Lokar part works really well. Do it....

Totally agree with you, just got mine installed last month with Keisler Hydraulic TOB kit

Thanks guys,

I went with a similar lokar cable in my Willys when I swapped in the 5.7 and it worked well. Is there anything special I need for it to hook up to the ls1 throttle body?

I figured I'd just go with the 6cyl pedal both because it's cheaper and because it looks more plain. I went with stock brake and clutch pedals too. Hopefully it will work OK and I won't have too many problems with it.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the old engine pulled out before the end of the year. I plan on trading it for a 12 bolt rear from someone I know.

As luck would have it, I've had a nasty cold and haven't been working on the car as much as I'd planned. This always seems to happen when I take vacation. I'd rather be miserable at work than at home!

Anyway, I was able to get a few things done. I removed the GTO shifter from the T56 , installed a new F-body shifter cup in the tranny and installed my new MGW shifter.

I finished installing my Holley 302-2 pan, which required some grinding on the starter.

I also dug into my wiring harness for the engine and removed the stuff I didn't need. After going through the harness with a fine toothed comb I'm less daunted by it. I really can't finish it until the engine is mounted in the car because I won't know where I'll put the ECM but at least I have a start.

Oh, put another reconditioned radiator in my Willys too so I should be back to no leaks and having an overflow reservoir again!

I'm feeling a bit better today so I think I'll fire up the heat in my shop and move the Camaro into the lift bay. I'll have to wait until the hydraulics are nice and warm though before I put it up. It's still friggen cold here.

Time to start ripping this thing apart!

I got a lot of work done yesterday.

Exhaust, gas tank, drive shaft, radiator, tranny cooler, and the damn headers are off the car. The drivers side header was a miserable b---h to take off. I ended up having to remove all of the spark plugs and work it out the bottom.

I was also able to get most of the hoses, wires and linkages off of the engine and transmission so I have just bits and pieces to remove today in preparation to pull the engine and transmission itself.

I noticed that the slip yoke from my old automatic slides right into the T-56. Is there any reason not to use it for the swap?

Well, I'm going to make me some breakfast and then walk down to the shop and get crackin'

The old engine and trans are out!

My uncle came over to help me out and since I had a good head start it went pretty fast. We took off the hood, took out the bellhousing bolts and lifted out the engine. Then the trans came out the bottom.

We also took out the horse shoe shifter, the dash and the accelerator before we decided to call it quits for the day.

I can't seem to get the transmission crossmember out though. The bolts are removed but I can't seem to finagle it into a position where it will come out from between the subframe and the body. What's the deal? Is there something I'm missing?

The subframe mounts are shot and I have replacements. What is the best way to install the new ones without taking too much apart? Anyone have any suggestions? Also, one of the rear holes for the body mount on the subframe looks like it needs a weld repair.

Oh, it looks like I definitely have the 350 engine stands and I should probably get the 327 stands instead. Anyone have a suggestion on where to buy them?

Now I'm gonna take a well-deserved break and watch football today. I'm also in a fantasy football final which will win me some more money to put into the car...haha.

Well, Here's what the car looks like at the moment.

I've got problems though. I test fit the engine and I've got some issues with the brake booster hitting a coil and the oil pan hitting the crossmember. If I raise it up with a set of 327 stands or something, the brake booster will get worse at the same time the crossmember get's better.

Any suggestions?

I may have lost my audience by not posting enough pictures so I may post this question in another thread. I just figured I didn't have any interesting things to take pictures of until now.

ohh pictures.... looking good so far.

Subframe Issues
 

I posted in another thread but I figured I'd document here that I've got subframe issues.

I'll have to figure out if it is worth fixing this one, if I should find a used stock one, buy a new OEM style one, or get something aftermarket.

The sub is sprung an inch too wide in the rear from mount to mount and it's got rusted out mount holes in at least three of the 6 positions. It also appears that the middle stand on the drivers side might be bent a bit.

Here's the thread with pix:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...022#post527022

Well, I figured I'd post a small update. I am definitely looking for a replacement subframe. I measured mine compared to the original specs the other day and it is WAY off. The mount locations on the car itself do match spec however so that's good news.

I also was able to check out my new (for me) 12 bolt that I traded the old camaro motor for. It's a posi unit and I was hoping for the correct gearing but I didn't really know what it was. Took the time to count the revolutions of the pinion to the hub and decided it's a 4.10. That's great news. I can use that.

With a 27" tall tire I should be about 43mph in first gear at 6500 RPM and 1600 RPM in 6th at 55mph. 70mph in 6th will be at 2000 RPM.

I think I can live with that. It should really want to roast the tires in 1st though. If I have to adjust maybe I'll go with a bit bigger diameter rear tire, of course, I'm not sure what is best for looks and fitment.

Cars looking good so far,it's a lot of trial and error putting the ls engines in but we'll worth it in the end.:thumbsup:

Well, I'm back in business!

Someone answered my Craigslist add for a stock subframe and I went and got it this weekend. It's in really good shape compared to my old one. It just needs a wee bit of TLC on the middle mount holes but that's it. The rear holes are great. The picture is pretty crappy but there's not much to see anyway.

I've also ordered all the components I need to rebuild the sub including bushings, tie rod ends, upper and lower ball joints, pitman and idler arm, rag joint etc. I'll be going with the 3rd get steering box as well but haven't ordered one yet.

Anyway, at least I can make some real headway again!

Cool, waiting to see more...

Subframe Work
 

Well, my uncle and I got some work done on the subframe in his shop this weekend. It should be ready to go and get sand blasted now.

Here's our fix for the rusty middle mount holes. We special ordered washers of the right thickness and bored out the ID on a lathe to the proper dimension. Then we fitted it to a hole in the frame that my uncle cut out with a plasma cutter and smoothed out with a die grinder. For most of this, I just let him do his thing. I can weld and grind but he does it for a living so I left the professional alone!
Attachment 46102
Tacked it into place and made some minor adjustments.
Attachment 46103
Finish Welded
Attachment 46104
Ground the Weld and they are done
Attachment 46105

After that we heated and beat out some dents caused by people inserting tow hooks in places not designed for it. I decided to put a tow hook on the front just for that purpose in case it was ever needed.
Attachment 46106

Getting that thing apart was a big PITA. The upper control arms weren't so bad but the lowers required judicious use of a plasma cutter on the bolts. So, now I'm in search of new bolts for the lower control arms.

That's it for now. It doesn't seem like a lot but it took a whole day.

I ordered some new upper bump stops, LCA bolts, front shocks and an alternator bracket (one I got with the engine was broken) yesterday. That wasn't too bad.


Today I ordered a Classic Auto Air system and some VHX gauges. That was Ouch!

Keep up the good work. It's a long (and expensive road) I think I've bought my car twice!

I was hoping to keep the total cost of my build including the car to under $25,000. I mean, I knew it wasn't going to happen but giving myself a number to stick to still helps me come out under what it would have if I didn't care and on my salary...I definitely care!

That being said, my revised goal is $30,000. This is to get it on the road and running reliably, mind you. It's not including later upgrades like a ridetech suspension and a new paint job.

So, today I was looking at what I still need, as far as big expenses go and I'm down to three things, for the most part, baring any unforeseen circumstances.

1. Fricken indomitable, gosh-darn headers. (I'm really beginning to hate headers)
2. Exhaust (thinking magnaflow 15899)
3. Radiator and fans

By my calculations; if I get the cheaper headers I'm thinking about, I should be needing to spend about $1,870 on that stuff.

I'm really hoping that's it because I'm getting uncomfortably close to $30k

Bud, everyone has that goal..... and everyone breaks it too....

Just a small, non-picture-worthy update.

I installed my Sanden compressor from my CAA kit last night with the included Kwik Performance bracket. I also temporarily mounted the alternator back on as well. I'm going to pick up a belt tonight and make sure it's all good. It seems like everything should work and it went together without any apparent issues; yeah, weird right?

This is all sitting on an engine stand outside the vehicle unfortunately....LOL

I did order my exhaust last week so I might have that by the end of this week. Not like I'll need it for a while though anyway.

So, down to headers and radiator/fans on my "to buy" list for now.

Oh, I did order the stuff to rebuild the rear spring bushings and shackles as well. Figured I might as well do that when I switch to the 12 bolt rear end. I snagged some stainless brake lines for the front and rear as well as part of the order.

Don't feel bad I bought my exhaust for my car 5 years ago and still not ready for it. Same one you got.