1969 Camaro RideTech tru-turn review/fitment w/pics
 

Wanted to give my 2 cents (earned the hard way) on the ridetech tru-turn and the ability to put a 10” 275 tire on a 69 Camaro.
The short version is it doesn’t really fit.
My setup is probably pretty common for people buying this system.

• Stock subframe
• ½” Drop body bushings
• Full ridetech front suspension with the muscle bar
• 18x9.5” front wheel w/ 6.25” backspace
• 265/35 tires

The car has been fully aligned per the Ridetech's specs.
Here is how well it “fits”

***** I added back in several of the key pictures on this thread that disappeared when third party hosting was dropped. Mine is the green car. The blue car is the car done by a ridetech guy later in the thread. The yellow fender is the modification done for a custom car to make larger front tires fit.

https://i.imgur.com/tmREFMV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/08UMwLp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RzQrSAF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wf3Afb9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8ZZQzf2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KUK9LES.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zQ3wS5e.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/az38hU5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zVcIvNT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0n7jmT5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rgfvOqe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OcIzlPe.jpg

part 2
 

As you can see it really doesn’t fit well. The fender sits on tire when the wheel is turned.

What you can’t see is the rear of the tire hits the frame rail long before I reach lock on the steering wheel. I would probably have to do a 3 point turn when taking a right at a stop light if I left it this way.

I’ve said in another thread and will say it in this thread - I don’t see how you stuff that much tire into the fender well with a stock subframe. There just isn’t enough room to make it work.

The only options I have at this point are:

1)New wheels and smaller tires upfront
2)Raise the car 0.5”-1” and hope I can clear the fender and just live with the mile wide turning radius

With option 2 I think I still may have to get stiffer springs in order to keep the tire from riding up into the fender while turning over a large rise in the road (aka turning into a parking lot)

3
 

I am not posting this to flame on ride tech. I think they make a nice product. It goes together well and probably handles great. On the other hand it is not a great solution for fitting larger tires into a 69 camaro.

I just wanted to post another viewpoint besides “yeah, everything fits right in there with the right backspacing” In my experience, it doesn't fit. I have no room to give on either the front or back side of my wheel.

I have the same set up as you on my 69 firebird project, except I have solid stock height body bushings. I haven't ordered wheels yet, but already have new Toyo R888 275's for the front. I hope the solution is different back spacing with the stock bushings...guess I'll have to measure and see while crossing my fingers! Thanks for the post

Hey GLR0212,

I'll be happy to help you figure this out, I just want to check into a couple of things to see what we're working with. I saw up above where you said you used our alignment specs but can you tell me exactly what you have your camber set at? We ran a 275 on the 69 GG/RS Camaro that we just finished. We just need to see where your problem is coming from.

Do you think putting "regular" height body bushings on it would help? It might get you some more clearance.

Josh,

How wide and what was the back spacing on the front wheels of the Goodguys Camaro?

Were the tires a 275/35/18?

What was the camber setting on the alignment?


I'll be ordering a set of wheels soon for my Ridetech equipped 69 Camaro soon so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your tire hits the outer fender because the 265/45-18, at 27.4" tall, is about 1.8" taller than the 25.6" tall 275/35-18 tire that we (and most others) use. It hits the subframe at full lock because you've selected the wrong wheel back spacing by 1/2". Our printed recommendation for back spacing is 5.75".
If you install the correct parts on the car it will fit just fine.

ummmm yep

1st of all you cant make a hard BS recommendation because you don't know what my track width is. Depending on what brake setup people have the track width can move by as much as 1/2" or more.

2nd, and most important - If you look at the pictures the fender is practically sitting on the tire. adding an extra 1/2 of backspacing in my case and the fender will be sitting on the tire.

Basically I can not move the tire out towards the fender any more.

alignment

Camber -0.48

Caster +3.77

Toe in 0.03"

The tire is a 25.3" tall

265/35ZR-18 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2

thanks for your help.

I posted the alignment specs above. What is the ride height on the GG camaro? Measured at what point?

get rid of the half height body bushings, that tucks the frame higher into the body

and that wheel backspacing (6.25” backspace) is more for a scott mock style frame that has the corvette arms

i think we are missing something in communication here.

I clearly do not have room to move the wheels and tires OUT 1/2". The fender is already sitting on the wheel practically. I'll get another picture later to demonstrate this for you.

Also not sure how body height bushings are going to create more side to side clearance in the fender wells.

Your first post says it is a 265/45 tire....

Won't half height bushings tuck the tire further into the fender and aggravate the problem?

What about adding a litte more camber?

Don

Yep, 5.750 would put you into the fender.

I'd go -1.8 on the camber and see what you have to do to keep your turn radius. Looks like its in the sway bar hardware already.

I don't see a problem with the half heights in there. It's the same as lowering the car as far as clearence.

You're right, there's only so much room to fill. To get it off the fender, you need more backspacing, but that makes your frame clearance worse.

Looks like the wheel is already in negative camber. More would help, but you can't go to far.

The only way you're going to make this set up work is to raise the car a little, and notch the frame where the tire hits.

So are we saying that this set up (if used per Ride Tech's specs) works on some 69's but not others? Is there something "non-stock" about the G/RS set up? I'm looking for answers before I buy wheels and I have the same set up as what is being discussed here...except I have solid Alston stock height body bushings.

Could you post pic of the tire size? I'm not finding a 265mm tire in a kdw.
The standard height subframe bushing will serve to raise the body/fenders by about 1/2". You can simulate by adjusting the coilovers up to test fitment.
Also, additional camber will help fender clearance, help turn in for autocross ing, and will not significantly harm tire life
I routinely run cars with 1-1.3 degrees of camber on trips across the US. Theoretically that much camber will decrease tire life but we abuse our tires in so many other ways it doesn't matter.

Every body line on the Goodguys Camaro has had weeks of massaging to achieve the aesthetic effect we were looking for. It is completely useless as a measuring template

One of our sales/tech guys, Kyle, has a 69 with stock inner and outer fenders. I don't remember the tire size on his car...he is out of the office this week...I'll try to get exact info on his car when he returns. I do remember his buddy doing whack job on the alignment at first and he had tire rub problems. When we fixed the alignment it was fine.

More negative camber will move the top of the tire in nearly 1/2". If you plan on Autocrossing your Camaro, start with -1.5 degrees camber & caster at 5.5 deg.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...202_153943.jpg
Tire size.

I bought the tire a year or more ago. They don't make the 335 tire anymore either i believe.

Maybe some people that have made this system work with 69 fenders and a 275ish tire will chime in with some real world experience.

My car is sitting on the ground with 18x9 5.25 backspace wheels. I have not put the steering on yet but I hope to have that ordered soon. They just bairly kiss the inner fenders and if I were to do it again I may have done with a 9 inch 5.5 backspace to give me a little more room at the inner fender. We will see once the car has the engine in it.

Cwylie,

How low does your car sit?

I would also love to hear from people out there with a 69 that have made this work.

here is another picture of my tire clearance from below with the wheels straight -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...202_154229.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...202_154148.jpg

The fit of tires is unfortunately an inexact science. I have had many 1st gen camaros, and they are not exactly precision instruments. First off, as Bret says above, add some neg camber. If you are just puttering around, it will reduce tire life, but if you ever autocross the car or run it hard, you will wear out tires well before you run the inner edges off with lots of neg camber. There is a guy that autocrosses a 67 camaro in an SCCA class where he is restricted to completely stock parts and he uses neg camber in the 5-6 degree range. It is so much that the front end looks broken.
http://www.rhoadescamaro.com/build/

Second, replace the lowered bushings. Every fraction of an inch counts, and a half inch will definitely help.

Third, it goes without saying that adding a inch or so to a normal backspacing measurement will make inner part of the tire contact the frame sooner. It will reduce your turning radius, but I bet you will probably be able to live with it. You won't actually be making 3 point turns into parking spaces.

Lastly, the stock type inner to outer fender bolts will have to change. It won't kill anything to leave them out, or preferably use something with a flat rounded head.

There is lots of misinformation floating around about the tru-turn setup. It is an excellent product for eliminating bumpsteer, lowering the car, and getting the steering arms out of the way so more BS can be used. It is not an always foolproof method of stuffing the wheelwells with rubber. It looks like your car hasn't been painted yet, so you still have the opportunity to do some minor mods inside the fender and it will be smooth sailing. That is until you change tire brands and the next set in an identical size hits, tires themselves can vary nearly a half an inch from brand to brand.

Raising the car and adding more neg camber is what I am hearing.
Agree the inner to outer fender bolts need to be low profile.
Changing out the body bushings – still not sure how that will change the side to side clearance. Either way, that isn’t an option for me at this point. The sub frame connectors are welded in.

I’m still pretty skeptical on how this setup works. Even if you get it tucked in there, if the car is lowered with a decent stance there is no getting around the fact that a tire this large will stick out from under the fender when turning. I imagine turning into a raised parking lot would be a fender smash job unless the springs are so stiff the car doesn’t move. What spring rate are people running with this setup?

It would be nice if more people with real world cars chimed in to give their experience. Maybe ridetech can track down a few customers for us. Id’ love to know where I went wrong and it sounds like there are a few other guys that would as well.

Just for reference here is the Detroit Speed test car. look how much fender clearance this car has in the front. It looks like upwards of an inch!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...eed-camaro.jpg

18x9" with 5 3/4" B.S.
 

I have had the Truturn system on my '69 for over a year and went with 18x9" with 5 3/4" B.S. and 275 KDW tire. Before ordering wheels and tires I did a test with a borrowed 18x10" 5 3/4" B.S. and 275 tire and decided there was no way it would fit well without some modifications to the outer fenders. My car was already painted and been driven for many years so that was not an option. At my present ride height, the tire sometimes rubs the paint off at the top, bottom area of the fender while turned full lock and while moving over bumpy surfaces (like parking at a field). You can not see the damage except getting down on the ground and looking up at the fender lip. I will have to touch up the paint a couple times a year if I keep it this height. About half the time I do have to make 3 point turns while parking. I have only neg 0.5 camber now and plan to get it realigned to about neg 1.5 in a couple months, so that might help some. Also I removed those top fender bolts about 18 years ago and the fender has not fell off yet.

Gary

DSE cars
 

I will also mention that while at the Southern Slam Track event last year, I asked Stacy of DSE to turn the wheel full lock on her '69 Camaro test car. (The car now has a 10.5" wheel and 285 tire) The tire tread touched the top of the fender. And on another DSE equipped Camaro that had a lower ride height, I noticed some slight fender damage (bent) in that area.

My car presently has 1/4" between the tire tread and fender at full lock with no one in the car.

Mine sits about the same height as yours and I am running the same size tire on a 18x9 5.25 backspace so I should be further from the frame and closer to the fender than you. I still need to finish my front body panel alignment but I am going to have to mod the fender for sure. I really wish ridetech would put out a little better info on what will and will not fit with the tru turn setup. Looking back if I was not so commited with the brakes and everything I would have gone with an aftermarket subframe.

I agree that Ridetech should modify the info to recommend an 18x9" unless fender modifications are made. Right after I ordered the TruTurn system for my '69 I got to see their '67 48-hour Camaro at the RTTH event. While lying on the ground looking at the setup it appeared the clearances were really tight on that car. That made me worried about fitment on my '69. I'm lucky I was able to borrow a wheel & tire for testing. I have a friend about 90% done with a '69 and he installed the TruTurn system . After looking at my setup he went with 6" B.S. on an 18x9. If he has too much loss of turning radius, he says he might section the frame.

I would like to crawl under that yellow '69 that Ridetech just built for Goodguys to see how they got a 10" on there. Too bad they don't provide detailed pics and instructions on the mods.

I did a little leg work for you guys today and just want to see if any of this helps you and other builders but first I will help with the last few request and these answers come fromthe Ridtech website on the tru-turn FAQ section


Can I really fit a 10" wide wheel with a 275mm tire?
Yes! There is no modification necessary to the subframe, but you WILL need to create clearance on the inner wheelhouse and the outer fender lip. These modifications can be as simple or elaborate as your talent and ambition dictate, but if done nicely, are all but invisible.


Will I sacrifice any turning radius?
No loss of turning radius! An 18x10 wheel with 5.75" of backspace and a 275/35-18 tire will lightly kiss the framerail or the swaybar at full lock under full compression...just enough to clean the paint off...no damage to the wheel, tire, or other components.


one of the guys here at the shop has a Daily 69 with all the suspension gear and stock fenders, chrome fender trim, and a low ride height and he runs 8 inch wheels, so he pulled it in the shop and I used a recommended 18x10" rim with 5.75 back spacing and a new 275/35/18 to check fitment, right off our shop Tru-Turn display, here's a few pictures and I hope these helps

first the tru-turn setup with the 18x10 rim for reference
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3049df04.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb7333209.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps02915205.jpg

lock to lock views of tire to frame clearances left and right
left turn first
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa3a1a4b3.jpg
here is the tire barely touching the frame under full lock
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psb6e1f067.jpg
then right tire just kisses the sway bar under full lock
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...pse88320b5.jpg

and over a half inch away from the arms
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psecf3fd13.jpg

next we bring in the victim! a nice 69 camaro with stock unmodified fenders, with chrome fender edges, and all the bolts in place
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...pse9710d04.jpg

here you can see the 8 inch rim and all the clearance
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps1bd86f6b.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps056949f1.jpg

now to measure back spacing as a prof of life for everyone
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps4cff541b.jpg
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps09af6fcb.jpg

it was hard to read the silver ruler with the camera flash so we switched to a standard yellow tape to show the 5.75 backspace
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psba053026.jpg

and I measured the 8 inch rim and it was a 5 inch backspace(it read 4-7/8 in reality)
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps43dc7d24.jpg

ok now to install the rim, and then I moved the car around the shop to settle the suspension to actual ride height
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3f3cc973.jpg

now left and right turns for clearance
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3b7a625c.jpg
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps27674322.jpg

so the question is how much space is there?
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps0bdab1df.jpg

enough my fingers fit
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa08eccbe.jpg
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps9ca10ddf.jpg

roughly about a thumbs thickness above the rim
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps7dcf9a22.jpg

or here is the actual ride height numbers ground to fender edge 23-3/8 inch
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psf09cdb22.jpg
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...psae5682dd.jpg

I hope this helps, after we used the car I would roll the fender edge and remove the large bolts or change them to button heads and you shouldn't have to do to much abuse to the inner fender

every car is different...I still say its all in the alignment..btw....18x10 6 7/8" back space 285/30/18 23.5" fender height -.8 camber 5.6 degrees on caster on a 71 Nova.

Modifications, button head fender well bolts and tru turn. Steering components are 1/8" away from wheel hoop inner step. Fully cleared on a smooth hoop.

Ok, whats up with the bump stops guys.

Rod, that is a GREAT write up.

Not even at Ride Tech a week and already at it.

Those Forgelines look great on that car.


I know the Camaro and Novas are different, but I run 18x9.5" with 275/35/18 with complete Ride Tech set up. I ran the wheel/tire combo off the 48 Hour Camaro at RTTH's and they do fit.

you were the inspiration for this car. The owner watched you plow through the autox on youtube and sent it to me. Nice counter swinging your turns BTW. thats old school.lol We are doing a tiny tub on it to fit 295's on 10's in the back.