Bead rolling?
 

Just wondering if you guys have had better luck with certain types of dies vs metal warpage?

I cut out an 18 gauge steel one piece trunk floor for my Cadillac, put quite a few patterns into it with an 1/8 step die and warped the hell out of it.

I was cranking it down rather tight, maybe that is my problem?

Or is everyone pre-stretching with an english wheel? (which I don't have).

I may have just put too many beads into this thing but trying to avoid the next one being a taco as well.

I'm strictly novice, but run into the same problems as you.
I'm sure you've watched a few of the Lazze videos on youtube where he talks about it, he pre shrinks or stretches and it still looks like it has some warp in it to me....

But then look at some of the Jamey Jordan stuff and his panels still look as flat as new stock after he has just beadrolled the Mona Lisa in to a panel... wow.


Jeff-

I had the same problem. Try not cranking down so tight or, use a english wheel to pre-stretch it.

you guys are scaring me. i was going to go buy one of those sweet harbor freight ones to do my entire floor LOL

Yea I have run into that problem also. Sometimes I have to English Wheel out the middle flat area after I bead roll. It still has some warping to it. I have found that if you build a flat catch table front and rear of the bead roller it helps keep the metal flat as it's pinched between the die. Less up and down motion during rolling. Also as noted above, smaller bites.... I mean less pressure between passes. I do multiple passes to ease the metal into shape. However, it makes it hard to pass directly over the prior line. That's where the catch table comes in handy. Also try raising the bead roller up to eye level... which helps visibility during the multiple passes.

For those amazing panels that seem to come out perfectly flat, I think the pros are using an annealed thinner metal than 18G.

That's my 3cents. lol

Yep, it's how you hold, support the metal, the type of metal and die you use. Experiment a little and you'll learn what works with what.

Thing like floorpan where you do alot of wide, deap beads (3/8" or even 1/2") you will use so much material for those that you will end up warpetch for sure.

For those you need to prestretch with ewheel. Deeper you do, or numbers of beads in same sheet, more you need to prestrech it.

Bead art like Jordan's, the bead is low and narrow so use of material is minimum.
He use so calld flame die that is two dies on different line pressing sheet up and down next to each other. On floor beads you are pushing one die in the other and streching is much greater .

Of course keeping sheet flat is good when doing flat pieces like floorpans.

Thanks for the input guys. I did make 2 hat channel supports on the brake which will run the length of the floor front/back so it won't be unsupported.

I have 2 more sheets of sheetmetal to ruin. One in 18 gauge and one in 20 gauge. Plan is to have a simpler pattern and not run the dies balls deep:superhack:

I made an outfeed table exactly like Brett is talking about. Used a sheet of 3/4" melamine and notched it to fit up around the wheels. Really handy for managing big sheets by yourself. It definitely makes a difference if you don't let it droop as you roll.


Jeff-

I'm sorry -- I got a good chuckle out of your misery.... and it's not because of you personally doing something... but how many times I read or see people thinking that what they see on the internet (like the builds on here) -- is just --- Get a machine and start makin' stuff! Welding -- fab -- bending -- English wheel -- whatever.....

I don't have, nor have I ever used, a bead roller - but I KNOW it's not nearly as simple as the people that can do it, make it look. I remember the tailgate for the Craftsman truck that was made at The RS... and thinking WOW!! That dude has some serious skills 'cause I can't even figure out how he made that thing!!

About the Craftsman truck tail gate, I mae remember wrong but didnt RS stamped that text?

And about bead rollers, there are cheap one and there is good ones.

Internet is full of info how to make HF roller stiffer but none about hot to stiffing Mittler Bros, Lazze's or JS-tools.

can't learn if you don't try. Some people are just naturals and others have to be shown. You should know this man.

Reminds me of when I was young. I love fish so I decided to build a boat. My dad wouldn't help so I bought some wood, tar, nails and rope. 3 weeks later I drug that thing out to the lake down by the golf course. Put it in the water and that sucker sank faster than I could say "crap". Lessons learned that day, too much tar and too many gaps makes a bad boat. I figured it made a nice habitat for the local fish in the lake. Did I mention that I like fish?

Good idea on the table guys. The piece I'm working with is roughly 48x32 and I can hold it level while rolling the bead but my right shoulder nearly burst into flames.

Greg, getting machines and start making stuff, exactly!

Yeah I 'might' have a $45 sheet of steel ready for the dumpster because it's so warped, and I 'might' have freaked out and went ballistic on the second one and put 15 holes in it with a hammer, and 'maybe' the 3rd one will work out. (seems like it will lay out fairly good, if I tack weld it from the inside out).

With persistence I will gain experience.

..if you had an english wheel you could have fixed those. :)

I've seen guys pre stretch with an english wheel. Seems to help but still not perfectly flat.

I didn't know you could repair it afterwords with a wheel.

^ yes you can. Even those hammer dings.

you will leave marks from the roller dies but you will get it straight. On your EW use flattest dies and very little pressure.

I have shown to my customer that you can hit a piece with ball headed hammer and get it fix using EW and shrinking disc.

But I havent seen or heard that you can fix warped piece with EW by wheeling next to bead... Have to try one day.

Prestreching should be done with narrow or curve die and some pressure on as narrow area as you gonna run the bead. You should not go out side of that area.

Lazze has great clips about that:
part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XBxVtocDqc
part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTjPZ9ljZ10

Not dings lol, actual holes. I've seen those Lazze videos, he is awesome!

I see he makes multiple passes with the bead dies. I'm doing this in one pass with an 1/8 step die.

I think you would still benefit prestreching and you also could do multi pass. I know it would be challenging to follow previous line.

If you dont have EW, you can do prestreching with plannishing hammer. That one will make material thinner faster than EW.

Two Finnish metal shaping teachers took all the classes from Lazze and are giving same classes...I have taken some...

Another way is to prestretch the metal with a planishing hammer. Baileigh has a well priced planishing hammer that will do everything you need and comes with a good selection of dies... A planishing hammer with a flat die also works wonders for flatting things out that you've buggered up by hand. It really is one of those... "Why didn't I buy this before?" tools.

http://metal.baileighindustrial.com/...ammer-ph-24a-1

I'm warning you though... sell the bead roller and just walk away. This is how I started down the rabbit hole.... "but I just want to bead roll some firewall and apron panels...."

The bead roller leads to the planishing hammer.... the planishing hammer leads to the english wheel... the english wheel leads to the shrinker/stretcher... This all leads to your 30" 3-in-1 machine not being enough so you sell it at a swap meet and buy 48"-50" Shear and roller, and of course the regular brake isn't good enough when you can buy the magnetic brake.. Somewhere along the line you end up at a Baileigh Industrial class and come home with a power hammer and a plasma table... Lets not forget the band saws, the beverly shear, the power shear, the hand snips, the cleko pins, the hammers, dollies, anvils, dies for the bead roller and the hammers...... And then you have to buy or build stuff to store all of the dies and dollies and anvils....

Hello my name is Sean... and I started metal shaping....

But bead rolling is fun and easy way to build nice things. Even with out buying expensive stuff. ;) I know that Shane can and will hook everybody how wants. They do have nice tools...

and go straight to magnetic brake.

Here are some of my pieces. Made with home made machine and dies.
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pszhhb1co7.jpg

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pshjfvvtu0.jpg

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pszgagoslm.jpg

Whoa
 

SuperB70..you're a boss!

I must admit, you are much better than I

Nice work SuperB70!

Thank guys!

I have done this long time ago and lately started again.

Want to see more my work:
Instagram: ceeceeoy and Facebook page.

Go check what means "total restoration" to me. Doing it to '70 T/A Challenger...

I learned a really cool bead rolling trick at a metal shaping class here a few weeks back. When you really want to make sure your rolling is perfectly straight or you have an irregular shape you want to bead roll, cut yourself a template out of 1/2" wood and screw it to the panel. Now you have a guide to bead roll against.

Also if you an irregular shape or something with a lot of radius that you want to look really good like a 6" circle for example, you could cut a positive and a negative and make yourself a stamp. Drill a hole in the center and bolt them together for alignment and use a hammer or press to "stamp" your shape

And there's something else on the forum that I'm jealous of...... Great job! You're a talented man. :thumbsup:

Thanks Josh,

Like I told, been doing a lot of this. But had a long pause.

Now been doing more. Here is some of the latest.

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...psfnwvlzef.jpg
Wheel tub wall to my "Project Plan Bee"

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0qaemyel.jpg

3 step and half of the round edge. Other half is in tub side. Seam in the middle of the radius.

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pssnkguq35.jpg

Sing to my friends HD.

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...psgzqyudc3.jpg

Birthday presents

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...psal6umslz.jpg

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...psqemd1fna.jpg

Just need to practice and repeat.

I will start posting about my Plan bee when I got more done.
For those who are interested, search "project_plan_bee" at Instagram

Thought's I'd post this since it came in my email today....

https://garage.eastwood.com/eastwood...ontent=1EM4641

Very nice work. You need to be doing your own how to videos on YouTube and making some money on them. :-)

Thanks Doug1,

I dont have time to make videos. Have business to run and cars to buid.

If you like to see more what I do check me at IG here

New rolling stuff will came as I continue my builds. Now have new home build 43" deep bead roller machine w/ table. And on upper shaft I have 3" adjustment.

Thanks Doug, just when I'd finally stopped searching CL for a used EW I don't have space for. uggggh

Here's some correct reproduction inner fender extensions I make in small batches for 77-78 and 79-81 Firebirds. Just use a cheapo HF roller for them.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...psyug6qczi.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...pspgyjwvrq.jpg

Here is my new machine, frame 8mm ~almost 3/8" steel, 25mm~ 1" shafts. Here you can see handels for upper shalf 3" adjustment. Same set up as old one but bigger, deeper and much more heavier.
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pshjsjjgug.jpg

And here something I've done with it:

Lion of Finland:
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3rshwyv1.jpg

This was just a pragtice, new plastic die I made:
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pszpsmjvir.jpg

A simple flame job:

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...ps10ldr7as.jpg

Nice machine! I'd love to play with one that big.

"Just practice" he says... lol :lol:

You're talented! Keep it up :cheers:

That is a serious piece of equipment!

I'm just getting started and doubt I will make anything too complex. Being able to build floor pan pieces and other small patch pieces would be my goal. My brother bought this for me for Christmas, completely unexpected. Heaviest present I ever got. I still have to get it out the box and assemble it when I get some free time.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0087_200660087

Thanks guy's

I builded my first beadroller about 20 years ago.

I still stand behind that you need to practice. Also need to know how to work.

For these better to have motorized model w/food pedal.

Plan first how and in what order.

If doing multible beads or deep ones, pre strech. I use EW or planishing hammer.

Get good tools, practice with them. Get enough free space, a comfortable position, good chair, support table.

One important matter is how to draw your lines, picture to sheet. Some print to sticky paper, I print idea to clear film and shoot it to wall with old school projector. Hang my work piece to wall and trow the lines with marker. I made inner fender to one of my project today:

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pshvdpqw71.jpg


Cant show you any more yet so dont ask. All in good times.
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/...pss9kyjlun.jpg

Its just one way to do it. What works best. World is full with better ones than me. But thx anyway.

I got that same chinise EW. Add 20ft of thick squaretube and it will stop flexing. Anvils are ok, lower anvil quick adjuster is a joke. You can work with out modifications but it flex and takes longer time to get job done.

Picked up a bead roller just need to clean it up a little. I was told it had not been used in 5 years


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...psteqhrdmg.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps4aqr2fk5.jpg



Tore it all apart cleaned it up all sanded down ready for prime.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...pswmnefxlo.jpg


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...pso9ekmcg3.jpg

WTF --- you painted all of that and left rusty stuff???


Hey -- nice find!!!!

Ha ha Greg still in the process. Everything should be done by end of today.

Just got it fitted on the new stand.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...psaoww3af6.jpg