Ferrari Injection
 

Anyone know anything about this system? It is on a Ferrari F1 motor.

http://scarbsf1.com/gallery/v10_pict0013.jpg

Is it a mechanical system or is it EFI? Could something similar be done on a street driven car? What are the drawbacks to fuel hitting the intake runners before hitting the valves? :_paranoid I don't know too much, help me out.

Mal

First off it will not work, secondly why would you want something you can buy for a 5th of the cost and that would work on your car.

Just your typical F1 injection system, and yes they most certainly do work. But it's not even remotely feasable for a street vehicle. You would need a fully enclosed plenum and a fuel pump that can handle the required 700ish PSI (yes 700) of fuel pressure they run. :willy:

Thanks R/T

I was thinking along the lines of an enclosed plenum with a similar setup to hide the fuel rails. Make an efi system look mechanical. But I did not know you would need 700 psi :eek: to make it work! I did not want an exact F1 system, but someting similar as a way of hiding the fuel rails. Thanks for the constructive help, I'll go back to pondering.

Mal

Did you see that at the Ferrari Factory in Modena? I was there last fall and man, is it a motor heads dream. Got lots of pics if anyone is interested. I bet you would spend more money and Time that it could possiblly be worth, even if you did manage to make it work.

Isn't that a overhead cam set up???

you could do that type of set up on almost anything. my 2005 honda cbr600rr rocket has 8 injectors and four of them are mounted like that, and fuel it from 5,000rpm to 15,000rpm.
and it has i think 55 psi of fuel pressure

The fuel railes for the EFI injectors appear to be on top of the engine holding the injectors.

I was thinking of manifold and everything other then the fuel system. I read that wrong, sorry.

well if you are just trying to hide the injectors why not have them come from the center (above lifter valley, under the plenum) It would be a hell of a lot easier than a full custom induction system, and also hide the wiring. :thumbsup:

Hey no problem.

I have seen those, like this one done by Rad Rides:

http://www.bigstuff3.com/projects/hil2.jpg

But look at those bends. I'm sure a Ferrari style setup would flow better. Plus the fuel flows directly into the intake, not at a 90 degree angle. But again I'm just thinking out loud. Any more cons to this idea?

Mal

And damn those Rad Rides guys never cease to kick the bar 3 notches higher :hail:

You could make an F1 setup like that work at lower pressure, but the 700psi is all to help atomization, cooling, charge consistency etc. From what I have read (racecar engineering) it is very effective but not even remotely needed for a street vehicle.

The biggest issue I see with having the injectors outside the runners like that is low rpm performance would be marginal at best. You would need a super strong airflow signal just to suck the fuel into the chamber at a somewhat consistant rate.

If you're just trying to hide the rails/injectors there are quite a few ways (depending on the manifold style) that would be substantially easier. On a single plane you could put the injectors under the runners, use thread in injectors with stainless lines, and a large fuel block at the back of the manifold. The packaging would take a ton of time but it would be super clean.

being a little crazy myself i'd like to use a composite kinsler, single t/b, and lay the injectors down under it so they shoot about as directly into the ports as possible. Like this: but with the revised injector locations.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...s/IMG_0043.jpg

:wow: R/T that is a wicked looking throttle body!

That makes sense I guess, but then I start to think that if a T/B injection system worked at idle, this style M/P injection should work too.

Just for clarification I will describe what I thought I could do:
Using a Victor Ram base weld in and plumb fuel rails that float over the intake runners and mount injectors at the proper angle that point directly to the intake ports.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...mages/7070.jpg
Then cover everything with a custom plenum with a single throttle body similar to this pic.
http://www.summitracing.com/eventima...ang_engine.jpg
All that would be visible would be the intake and the throttle body (and the turbos and the intake plumbing of course :thumbsup: ).

What do you think? Is it just that the injectors are too far from the intake to idle properly? Or is it too much fuel bouncing off the runners that would cause a problem?

Mal

they run the injectors up there os there is n whre else to put them! lol aso it mens there aren't any odstrutions i the intake tracks temselve. thishelps make thoes extra few bhp.

they run very shor intake tracs to help make more power so ont have nmuh room fr injectors so they mount tem sprayin straiht down te throught of the throtte bodies! it woks rather well to!

f anyon has seenon one of these things runnin then you can see a cloud of fuel tat seems to sit there abve the intake runners.very sureal lol

there is vid knocking about. will see if i can find it for u all.

thanks Chris

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...08&q=F1+engine

there you go

Chris.

Wow Chris that video is sweet! To hear that motor wail at 18K RPM is almost melodeous. Thanks for the video.

Mal

no problems mate, infact it was my pleasure to see the vid again! :)

if you type F1 engine in the trusty google video search you will see some intresting stuff! like just how hot a set of F1 headers get and a cossy V8 (from this year) going to 20,002rpm and hitting the limiter! :)

im sooooo jealous of thoes guys! lol

back on topic though, all you have to do is make sure you are getting the fuel into the engine. but where you spray does have some effect! i have heard of no end of 4 cylinder racers over here running 8 injectors! the inner back run a lower rpm (to help driveability and torque) then at higher rpm the second set (about 6-12 inches away form the first set) kick in. this is supposed to give the fuel grater time to mix properly with the air and thus makes more power! and this would make scence on the F1 engines as they spend all their hard lives at 9K plus! lol

thanks Chris. :)

I Have a victor tunnel ram set up like this for sale let me know

:wow:

Set up like what? Could you post some pics?

Mal