The panty dropper
 

:D And now that I have your attention, I'd like to finally make my official Lat-G project thread for my TA. I honestly don't have a name for the car. I thought about Fuc king Fantastic Flying Fireturd but figured that was too much alliteration. Feel free to come up with a name if you feel so inclined. I'm terrible about coming up with names. Just ask my cat. Her name is Mouse. Who does that?

For a little back ground on the car and the previous work I've already done, like swapping in the LT1/T56 combo, you'll need to go here http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/5...d-so-it-begins .

Since then, I haven't done much of anything other than bring the car out to Kansas from Georgia. I finally decided to go ahead and start working on the car again. I decided I would focus on the suspension since the drive train was basically sorted out and the car could move under its own power. I'll get back to the engine and making more power later one.

With that in mind, I decided I would take incremental steps with the suspension build instead of jumping right in feet first. I realize this may ultimately take more time and money but, seriously, who's counting? In being completely honest with myself, I realize the need for me to go all out on a DSE or SpeedTech set up at this point would be overkill. Maybe I'll be able to utilize the Qlink or TA suspension one day but it won't be anytime soon I don't think. I also have other goals in my life that require money. So anyway, I called Keith at Custom Works and decided to go with composite leaf springs and HD shackles in the rear. Upfront, I went with Keith's coil over kit and SpeedTech UCAs. I decided on the coil overs because I figure I'll be making changes throughout the build that could affect ride height so I might as well do these now and they will surely work for me in the future also. I have no plans to ever change the front subframe on this car. I also went with Keith's 2G frame brace that welds to the frame in front of the sway bar. A must for these cars are front engine bar bars. I chose Pro-Touring F-Body's Pro-G braces and cowl brace. I wanted the adjustability these offered over the fixed design. Here's everything as it arrived along with the Hobart Handler 140 I bought to do all the work with.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6eb3b352.jpg

I knew I was going to need the car up off the ground to do all the work safely. I decided to build cribbing/DSE stands. I need to get a better higher rise and lower profile jack to get the car all the way up. I still have one more level I could add to the cribbing with the wood I already have cut. Suggestions welcome on a quality jack that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. For now, this will have to do

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8cfb4eb6.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psf90cb736.jpg

I didn't take any pictures of the installation of the frame brace or Pro-G braces. It's pretty straight forward though. I went ahead and cut the fender mount point at the firewall a little so that the brace would bolt directly to the fender and firewall. I didn't want to stack up a bunch of washers to make it work. Here's the front end bracing all in place. I didn't take a picture of the 2G frame bar. My welds on it are terrible looking. It'll hold but it's not pretty.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psffc812d8.jpg

I originally bought subframe connectors from Keith with every intention of using them because I didn't want to cut the floor up. However, after looking at it and thinking about it, I said to hell with it and decided to just go with DSE style connectors. Keith's connectors are perfectly fine. I just always planned on going through the floor originally and decided to stay with that plan. So I got under the car and started really looking and planning out my moves. It's taken me a long time to get these done. The first one, driver's side, took me weeks of planning and building. I'd never done anything like this before so I wasn't going to just through caution to the wind and start cutting. Admittedly, my attitude was I can always replace the floors if I manage to really screw this up. Either that or Mike's in OKC and Scott's in NE Kansas. I can always call them to save the car if needed, lol.

First thing I had to do though was square up the driver's side subframe end. In order to allow the foot brake cable to pass, a crease was put in the end from the factory. I had to cut that out and build a new end so I could build the SFC brackets off of it properly. Here's what it looked like cut and after the end was tacked on.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps9abb7f42.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3978eb91.jpg

During the cutting process, I found that the rear frame rail wasn't welded to the floor properly. DSE mentions this in their installation instructions even. I went ahead and put a C-clamp in there, squeezed the floor back, and tacked it in place. Gotta love that 70s American build quality. If I ever get this car on a rotisserie, I'm going to fully weld the rear frame rail to the floor on the inside of the rail. There appears to be plenty of places it's not together completely. It's that way on both side of the car.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc25bfac5.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psfa823e94.jpg

Here's a short interlude to a picture I find cool. My ground wire caused the metal shavings to align along the magnetic field that's created due to the current running through the wire while welding.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6c863709.jpg

Ok, back to the build. Here's the driver's side subframe connector all done.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse385d307.jpg

Vince showed me what he had done to a car using DSE SFC's and routing the fuel and brake lines in the factory manner. I decided that was a great idea so I copied it. Thanks, Vince!

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps7698b2c5.jpg

Here's the SFC tacked in place. It angles up slightly as it goes from front to rear. I'm not sure if DSE has their design do the same thing. I wanted the connector to meet the rear rail and be flush across the bottom. I thought this would be a clean way to connect everything together.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8925c3c2.jpg

It does cause the connector to come way up into the floor but I'll most likely never have someone sitting in the back of the car. I'm seriously thinking about mot even putting the rear seats back in the car.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psa7c4a1db.jpg

Here's the pass through for the brake and fuel line. This worked out really well.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps977a70d9.jpg

Like I said, it took me weeks to get the one to that point. I still have to finish welding it in place fully. I've got some bigger than I had hoped for gaps that I need to weld up too. I've got some ideas on how to accomplish that though. It'll just take time and practice. I already have the brackets that join the front subframe and connector together done also. I left everything simply tacked until I could verify I did it correctly by getting the passenger side one done in the same manner.

At this point, I have the passenger side one completed. It only took me a fraction of the time since I knew how I wanted to do it. It's tacked in place and awaiting the front brackets yet. I'll get to it and get pictures taken soon. If I had to do it again, I'd just buy the DSE connectors. Sure, I only spent $40 on a 8 foot section of steel tubing but I spent a lot of time building these. It's given me a chance to really work on my welding skills which have greatly improved though. I've got a long way to go until I really like my welds, but I'm getting there. Luckily, this isn't a show car.

That's it for now. Progress will be slow but it'll occur. Maybe.

Thanks

Dude, finally!!! Not on the work your doing, but getting the build over here lol.
I'd say call it "4F".....4 for the win?

Nice to see you tearing that beotch up. you'll be tearing it up before ya know it.....

Seriously though, good luck with it all and i'll be watchin ya :thumbsup:
:cheers:

Fooled again :bang: :thumbsup:

Looking good Trey!!!!

On the floor pan sheet metal to connectors, weld the top and seam seal the bottom....looks much cleaner.

That's a good idea, Vince. I'll look into it. Thanks.

Last night while laying in bed, I remembered I had the parking brake cables here. I need to figure out how I want to route them before I weld the driver's connector in fully in case I need to pass through it as well. I should have time to take a look at it today.

That looks great Trey. Keep at it! :thumbsup:

I knew I was going to need the car up off the ground to do all the work safely. I decided to build cribbing/DSE stands. I need to get a better higher rise and lower profile jack to get the car all the way up. I still have one more level I could add to the cribbing with the wood I already have cut. Suggestions welcome on a quality jack that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. For now, this will have to do

Looks like you're moving along! Here's how I get the car up high enough to get it on tall crib stacks.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...op/EVEL026.jpg

Thanks Scott.

Thanks John. How do you like that Craftsman jack? It's pretty low profile like it'll fit under our front subframes fine. Does it?

I too am glad you brought your build over here to share, I am on way too many forums as it is to sign up for one more, lol.

Man I am going to steal this some day :D

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps977a70d9.jpg

You can still use the factory pass through...just have to remember not to weld it closed.
I picked this Jack up last year to replace my broken Snap-on. My $430 Snap-on Jack mind you. I could have bought 3 and just toss when they break. When I was shopping I found most affordable where made over seas anyways. No way I am paying more than 300 for a jack with the spec I need.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-l...ump-61253.html

Thanks for the jack info too, Vince.

I bought Lokar's brake cables a while ago but didn't install them since I was afraid the SFC's and or suspension choice would cause problems with any routing decision I made at the time. I also did not want to have the cables just cut across the underside of the car like factory did. So I'm looking at routing them in a clean manner. I've got some ideas. Luckily, I can go ahead and weld the connectors in completely and not cause any problems.

What I am curious about is, does anyone have any recommendations, based on experience, for routing the cables? For instance, even though the cable can bend all over the place since it's inside the housing/sheath, should I try to keep it as straight and direct to the brakes as possible? What about tightest bend radius? With the ideas I have swimming around in my head, the passenger side is going to be a pain compared to the driver's side. The driver's side is virtually a straight shot from pedal to brake. I'd like to keep the foot pedal brake I believe. Helps keep the console area clean.

Thanks

On my Duster the passenger side emergency brake cable is long enough to reach the connection point of the driver side. If you did something similar a small dual to single joint could be used.

Take a look at DSE second gen projects for some good ideas on brake cables

That's definitely part of the plan, Scott. They give me a lot of inspiration.

Thanks

Hell yea! yay for progress!!!!!!!!!

I've had trouble getting my e-brake setup to work properly and steadily ever since I put my rear discs on. I'm going to finally fix it right here shortly.

I had mine working and then had to rotate my brake backing plates 180 degrees and that put the e-brake cable pointing to the rear instead of the front which in turn made my passenger side cable too short. After I ponied up another $60 to get a new one, it still took every inch of the housing to route it to the mounting plate that holds the other end of the housing. Finally got it all set and adjusted then the block I used to attach the lokar set to the stock cable started hanging up on a trans cross member bolt head.

I've figured out a way to move the plate that holds the cable adjusters on the pedal end so it won't get hung up anymore, just have to weld it onto my trans cross member.

What I do know is, my cables come out of my backing plates pointed to the rear, take a 180 and go up over the axles and head towards the front and they still work great...well as long as they don't get hung up on anything anyway.

Good work on the rest of the project, I know cutting into the floors was a big deal but I bet it ends up being worth it. Keep on posting pics of your progress.

Don't forget that the jack MOVES with the car going up (or down) and needs to have ROOM to move without falling off your cribs...

Just the thought of someone using it that way without stops makes my eye twitch.

OK, no need for anyone else to pile on.

The jack doesn't move with my system of jack platforms, cribs, etc. which I feel is a safer way to raise cars high and use cribs. I do it constantly on lots of cars.

I'll write a detailed explanation later when I have more time.

Thanks, Lance. Good luck getting your setup working 100%. I'm glad it's working well for the most part though. That gives me hope that I'll be able to have mine working well and not just sitting there looking like it'll work.

I did email Lokar as well to ask them what the tightest bend radius is and if the number of bends it makes will affect the cables working properly. I got a reply back in less than 24 hours, awesome, and was told the tightest bend radius should be 10inches. Also,while it can bend and snake all over the place, less bends are better if possible. So we will see what happens with that part of the build when I get there. Since the connectors won't be interfering with the cables, I'll wait until I drop the rear suspension to get the cables laid out.

Thanks guys.

Looking Good !

Way to step up Trey! I'm sure the usual suspects will sidetrack it...:lol:

:innocent:

Long time no see Trey. Glad you are back at it.

Dude, you said "alliteration" in your first post. Take it from a guy with two English degrees: You're making good decisions here! Just keep on it, and try to work some iambic pentameter into your next post. I'm about to rip my Falcon apart for the umpteenth (no spell check error, according to Google Chrome) time...

On top of the idiotic English degrees, I've also had two Firebirds, a '68 (400) and a '73 (turd--it was brown, with a white vinyl top). I miss the '68...

Keith's stuff works, just like his car, which I've experienced (violently) as a passenger. Get it done!

Thanks Rusto. I may have to try coming up with an iambic pentameter response one of these days.

As to today's progress, I've got the connectors welded in entirely. Ran out of gas right at the end too so I called it a day. I've got primer, paint, and seam sealer ready for tomorrow. No way am I going to do any painting with the Duc in the garage or near the garage for a few hours after I finish spraying. I'll start early tomorrow and get it sprayed. Might even get the brake and fuel lines remounted and drop the car off the cribbing. I want to drive it and get an alignment done since we requared the subframe before starting. I'm anxious to see how it feels.

On to the pictures. Don't look at the welds too much. They still suck. I also tried different techniques as I went. I was able to close up most of the gaps with just welding. Blew a few holes through the floor pans too. Learned how to close up said holes with just the welder too. Learning experiences what else can I say?

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbd7953e0.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0fdde7cb.jpg

Good job Trey!

I'm doing the same job, got them fitted and ran out of gas also....
Always seems to happen on the weekend when the gas store is closed. :bang:

Tell me about it. I had maybe two more spots to do a little welding on. I might still get to them though. The weather wasn't cooperating today and neither was the job. Got called at 3am with a job this morning so I was out with that all day. Haven't painted or primed anything and won't get to it today afterall. I'll see what tomorrow brings though.

Good luck, Scott.

Thanks

Well, I got everything primed, sealed, and painted. The car is back on the ground now, too. I've driven it around and the car feels very solid compared to before. Bumps don't rattle the car and feel way more solid. I'm very happy in those regards. The only real indication of increased chassis stiffness I was able to "test" was when taking the car off the cribbing. The front driver's wheel was the last to come off. I had the jack set just behind the 2nd body mount. At the point where I had just enough room to get the cribbing slid out, the rear driver's wheel was already off the ground and the front passenger wheel was just slightly off the ground. That's way better than stock.

Here are the final pictures.

As you can see, you can barely see them
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6e9bec09.jpg

From behind looking forward they don't look out of place at all to me.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0e8252b5.jpg

I'm really happy with the way I transitioned them into the factory rear rails. They look like they belong and that's what I was going for.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps69f4e787.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2607062a.jpg


I'll need to get an alignment before I go forward with the suspension just to verify nothing is out of whack. Tried to do that today but they were busy. I double checked the squareness of the subframe before starting all this but I'm only human and not about to start cutting up the front suspension if there's a problem that needs to be corrected now.

Thanks

Not enough hours in the day to derail every thread Ron. :hello:

It's just a service some of us provide to the members that need a lot of attention. :lol:


Congrats on the progress you've been able make Trey. :thumbsup:

I remember the 'shake, rattle and roll' in my '74 455 TA. :shakehead:

Thanks, Skip. It might be a while yet before I can make any more progress but it's for a really good reason. We'll see though.

Trey, that turned out really nice. Great job!

No idea how I missed it but thanks, Scott.

Well, I've got an appointment at the alignment shop for tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get away from work and get that taken care of because I am some what anxious to see if I can dial in the alignment. Yes, I measured and squared the frame before welding but I'm just anxious for some reason.

Aside from that progress nothing else will happen with the car for a couple more months at least, I believe. I'm finally moving back to Georgia! And, it's just in time for Caffeine and Octane on Aug 3! Can't have the car in pieces for the trip. I'd have to make two trips from Kansas to get everything myself. Instead of doing that though, I'm going to have the car brought over to me later. I'm hoping to have the car in Atlanta some time in August. We'll see though. If I made two trips, I wouldn't be able to do what I have planned which is go into Colorado on more time and ride the Duc around. I'm heading for Durango and Pagosa Springs this time. It'll be the last time I ride in Colorado for quite a while I'm sure. It'll also be the first time this year I've gotten the chance to go so I'm taking advantage of that.

Thanks

Good luck on the move. I havent been to Durango in a few years but I enjoyed it when I was there. Nothing like a good ride with some nice scenery. Keep the rubber side down.

Just finished up with the alignment and had some questions. Here's what we were able to get the car to.

camber(l/r) -1.04*/-1.05*
caster(l/r) 2.05*/1.93*
toe(l/r) 0.14*/0.15* in, but it's degrees not inches

First, I have no idea what the toe degrees equates to in inches. Anyone know?

In order to achieve these numbers, the right(passenger) side needed a normal amount of shims. There's plenty of room for more shims in there. The left(driver) side is maxed out with shims front and rear. All the bushings are newer and good. Is this a problem? I ask because I'll be doing Custom Works coil overs and Speed Tech UCAs in the future and would prefer to address any issues before hand. I figure if I need to bend the frame mount in some, I can do that when I cut the shock mount portion out. I also wasn't sure if I should do this while doing the coil over conversion, or should I wait and get an alignment done after the new parts are in just in case the new parts can achieve the desired specs without changing the frame mounts.

I'll be emailing both Keith at Custom Works and Speed Tech before I do anything to ask their opinions but I wanted to ask here as well.

Thanks.

25" diam

1/32" = .07 degrees = 4.2 minutes
1/16" = .14 degrees = 8.5 minutes
3/32" = .21 degrees = 12.6 minutes
1/8" = .28 degrees = 16.8 minutes

Thanks Vince! What's the 25 in diameter? Tire diameter?

Did some more digging. The rolling diameter of the tire is the 25inches number. I'm guessing this is slightly less than full tire diameter given the weight on and flattening of the tire? That makes sense. From there it should just be simple trig calculations to achieve the degree to inches conversion.

I finally have some stuff to update. After moving back to Georgia and starting a new job, I got myself situated and started working on the car fairly regularly. This stuff is just taking time. I've done a fair amount since the last update. I redid the fuel lines on the car, installed a parking brake, and upgraded the front and rear suspension. We'll start with the fuel system first.

When I put the LT1 in the car originally, I reused the factory fuel lines. Since I was a 403/auto I had fuel running down both sides of the car. I didn't like this and wanted to change it. I also wanted to use less flex line. I ended up making bulk heads front and rear and bending aluminum lines between them. I even put the fuel filter right in the middle of the car tucked up very close to the floor. It's well protected and easily accessed. The only thing I have left to do is to make a shield/cover for the front bulkhead connection. It's tucked up close to the floor and towards the inside of the car but I'm still afraid of the tire kicking something up and hitting the lines. Or, simply sand blasting them constantly. I painted all the lines black to hide them. Russell makes black aluminum lines but they cost $20 more than raw aluminum. It didn't cost me $20 to spray paint the lines.

Here are the pictures. Sorry it's so dark. I don't have the best lighting and was working on my back the whole time.


Front bulkhead
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps608d63c1.jpg

Rear frame rail kickup area
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...psed913004.jpg

Rear bulkhead
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps21148f73.jpg

Down the middle of the car with the fuel filter. I made a bracket/strap to hold the fuel filter too. It bolts to the subframe on top.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps738a4500.jpg