Hellcat totaled right after purchase
 

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/2015-do...083512851.html

I cannot imagine the feeling this guy must have.

I saw this. I hope his Insurance was up to date.

Didn't GM give free driving school tuition to people who bought the new Corvette one year or two? It might have helped this guy...another sad day in muscle car history. :bang:

More $$ then brains

To this date - when I read on here some of the staggering HP/TQ numbers that people either want to, or are, putting into their cars I shudder. I just hope they have ANY clue how much power some of these numbers are.

I hear people tell others - oh it's a 600hp 350... and you know damn good and well it's nowhere near that - and that it's never been dyno'd. It's more like 400Hp and puts 320 to the wheels.... you just hope they never get behind the wheel of an honest 600+ hp car!! OMG!

Greg, I've felt the same way for a long, long time. There was a period of time for me, when I spent a lot of time over on LS1Tech, and some of those guys and gals over there would put together extreme high end twin turbo builds that would easily reach 4 digits on a dyno, and I always said to my self "man I hope that guy has REAL experience behind the wheel of a high horsepower vehicle, cause this can get real bad, real quick!"
I had a close family friend die in a new mustang gt in 1991, because the thing got away from him. Those cars had like what, 275ish HP? I'm definitely not advocating that auto manufacturers begin to go the other way performance wise, but cars and trucks of this nature are downright dangerous in the wrong hands. Thankfully, automakers build these vehicles much safer than ever before.

More like 225hp, Scott. Both you and Greg have excellent points. The LS motors are amazing. It's getting boring seeing the high horsepower builds because they are so very easy to achieve. Obviously, this is my opinion. The flip side of that affordability and ease in which they make power is people with them don't necessarily know what they are getting themselves into. I've built and driven a couple 600 hp LSx motors, so mid 500 at the wheels. The cars are rocket ships. They are boring to drive on the street because you can't safely use the power. I had more fun driving stone stock C6 Z06s and other mid 400hp cars that pulled everywhere. Still had plenty of power to get into trouble and push the limits of street driving though.

Bob Johnson, owner/builder of GForce Cuda and Battle Axe and many others, once commented that the reason he went for a big inch engines over forced induction, even if he made less power, was because the sound and looks of the engine were apart of the build, too. I couldn't agree more. That's the biggest reason I'm sticking to a simple 383 that should sit at about 500hp/tq which will put me into the 400s at the wheels. I can't afford the horsepower wars, the power I will be making will be plenty as I'm really just a street car, and a cammed small block sounds better to me than an LS. I see no reason to take a different route with my motor choice. I'd really like to see more people take this approach and go for a complete package on the car instead of relying on the horsepower as the biggest attraction of the car.

Of course, the bigger question or concern I wonder about is what will be the response to these rather accessible, high powered cars by the government or insurance agencies. Will we see laws or rates penalizing or limiting power because people aren't being smart with the power they have?

Yep, seen it through the years. It used to be the guys going from 6 cyl cars or stock small blocks to big blocks and four speeds. Sometimes the cars made it as much as a week. People not used to the power and not careful enough. Just recently here in town, guy took a '69 with an LS2 and swapped it out for an LSA.

Luckily for him he only spent one night in the hospital and no one else was in the car at the time.

Pictured below, the car before the swap, the crate engine, after the transplant, and then what it looked like after he drove it for a short period of time.

Oh snap! How recent was this?

I must be getting old but my thoughts were along the line of Greg's. At some point the public just doesn't belong in a car with X amount of horsepower. It's one thing to go out and kill yourself, it's another when you bring innocent bystanders into the picture.

I raced and put many miles under my belt with 666hp. You blink and you are in trouble. It just wasn't usable with a conscious on the street. That was one of the reasons I raced my car so much. I just couldn't utilize the car at the level I desired.

This is a great thread and confirms my suspicions about this subject. I am getting ready for my first ls swap into my 69. I have never driven anything considered high horsepower and realize I don't have the experience to do so. To that end, my plan is a stock ls3, headers and a tune. I totally enjoy just driving my car and rarely nail it. More horsepower would just increase the chance of the above happening and as stated is still plenty of power to get in trouble if not careful.

My guys and myself were just talking about this subject last week. We get customers all the time insisting they need at the very least 700 hp. Its all due to forums and You tube. They hear about these 1000+ hp numbers and think that's the norm. As much as I personally enjoy insane power to weight ratios, :), I try to talk them out of it. Realistically, 400hp with optimum gearing would probably still get a majority of people in trouble if they aren't used to it. I won't even get into the motorcycles that are out now!

I think this was Halloween.

They all think that they are just as good as Ken Block and Tanner Faust. They do not realize the vast gulf in talent and experience between us mortals and those few top guys that get paid. Even if I am "that good" I know that I have not had anywhere near the practice time, so I am not by any means equal. What they also don't realize is how many cars those guys put into barriers learning how to do the stuff they do and even they get in a little too deep sometimes. I think I watched Tanner drop from 1st to 3rd one day because he came in a little too hot on the final curve. Difference is the safety equipment on those cars is top notch, they drive top of the line cars with the absolute best parts, they are super well maintained vehicles, they race in a controlled environment, and when they do wreck once in a while someone else picks up the bill.

More than enough power to have fun with. If you want to save money, you could go with a "simple" LS1/6 and also have plenty of power. You're taking the correct approach given your situation/experience in my opinion and I commend you. Have fun. Respect the power but don't be scared of it either. When you're done, go autox the car or sign up for a HPDE class so you can learn to utilize the car's capabilities while expanding your abilities.

This is my exact thoughts also! I know I went overboard on a lot of stuff on my car but HP was not one, it will have plenty for my needs and skills till I can get more experience. I can even say as Steve mentioned I found my self getting sucked into the "keeping up with Jones" mind set from reading the forums. I wanted to do a ls7 650 to 700 HP then I really stepped back and thought about what I would be using the car for the most. I can always upgrade!!

I had one of the top engine builders in the country talk me out of the monster HP twin turbo/pro charger deal. Now this guy could of sold me the world but in the end he just put it to me plane and simple ''What are you going to do with all this HP!?!?!?! Keep your 572/620hp, pump it up a little and you will have more than enough HP trust me''. So I listened.:D

With all that said..... a quad rotor whipple atop my 632 Tall deck BBC would be pretty cool....

I would have to agree!:D

I'll throw in another .02 as a guy that deals with 1000+ hp blown big blocks on a regular basis...

I've had two clients that after having me build them 1000+hp supercharged big block monster cars realized how uncomfortable it is to drive that on a regular basis and both have their cars up for sale so I can build them something more reasonable that they can enjoy. The Chevelle being one of them which I felt was a very comfortable car (relatively compared to the 1000hp Super Snakes I've done with side exhaust) that we road tripped 2200 miles in a week. People don't realize how much effort goes into driving a vehicle like this on the street on a daily basis. You feel worn out and tone deaf when you get where you are going just from driving and keeping the car straight. A little too much throttle off the line? Tire spin... A little too deep in the throttle getting around that guy on the on ramp? Passing him sideways.... Burnouts aren't even much fun since they tires don't have a chance.... Fun for a weekend car but these guys wanted something to drive on a regular basis.

One will be replaced with a Viper powered Challenger and the other with a TT Coyote 65 Fastback.

And yes...the HP numbers we can produce easily nowadays scares me as well. The majority of my clients like cars but are not "car guys" per se... they have their muscle car as a weekend toy but they aren't "drivers." These cars are much different from driving a 458 or Murcialago... much more brutal... much more raw... much easier to get into trouble with.

Agreed, well said.

I'd be interested in buying that 69. Then I would buy an AMD 69 body shell and start moving parts from the old to the new.

The guy already bought a rust free West Texas '69 donor shell and is doing a DSE suspension on it, fresh paint, then transferring all his good parts over.

Exactly what Steve was telling me. He told me I would get old real fast!

Pontiac 440
 

For many of the same reasons, I had a similar conversation with my engine builder for my car... and had thoughts of going with an LSx for reliability/fuel injection etc., but ultimately stuck with the original Pontiac 400... and instead of going for crazy big HP numbers went with an old school 440cid stroker combo that's a unique conversation piece and more fun on the street!

Now, they did add a vacuum pump and 1" spacer under the carb to hit that magic 600hp mark for an engine article, but the combo as it sits in the car makes around 550/550 which is more than enough for me. With a 4.00-inch stroke and 4.185" bore it revs like crazy, sounds nasty, and makes gobs of Pontiac torque! (over 400lb/ft @ 2500rpm - 550lb/ft@4900rpm)

The 248/260 solid roller sounds nasty too! No mistaking it for an LSx!

http://vid691.photobucket.com/albums...psqcrq6fla.mp4

Car looks better than ever btw... THANKS MARIO!!!!

Me and my dad were talking about this the other day. When we see these 1300-1600hp cars street racing it honestly amazes me how that's even remotely possible! My boss makes MAYBE 400 wheel hp as it sits now, and even with 315 rivals and a good bit of suspension work on the right day and road I can still spin them pretty darn good from a 35-40 mph roll in second. Granted the rival is no drag radial or slick but its a very sticky tire non the less, so seeing how quickly my car can get out of shape with 400 hp I don't even want to think what could happen with 4X's that power!

So, this was an episode of the driver not knowing the power of the car?

Not sure, since I have not had a chance to ask Trevor, it would just be speculation. But he went from a mild LS2 to a LSA... and he was not pushed into the pole by another car. I was told the car got away from him, but not sure of all the details or the circumstance. He was not racing, it was on a large well lit street about a mile from where I work, and he was in the car by himself are the only things I know. Next time I see him I will ask. That same stretch of road claimed a Lotus Exige not too long ago in a similar accident, it was a customer's car being driven by a Lotus mechanic.

I agree I have also felt this way for a long time. Used to be you really had to be a core hot rodder to make big power, now its available to everyone.

I simply cannot believe those guys on the you tube videos racing 800whp++++ cars on public highways. Most times they seem "alone" but I have seen several where they go whipping around other cars. Totally wrong, in fact I am surprised there hasn't been a public outcry yet. There have been accidents with these types of individuals and cars but they seem to get swept up by the authorities into just being car accidents or isolated "street racing". In the old days some drag racers might setup a street somewhere and do some illegal stuff but it wsa mostly a risk for the drivers and spectators, now you have these goofballs trying to be internet heroes on highways and freeways everywhere (glad I don't drive around in Houston TX !). Reminds me of Strava and cycling, now that you can compete with anyone anytime on the internet, you get a lot of reckless behavior.

I think one of these days a rich kid in his 20's is going to plow into someone ni his 1000whp Lambo and cause everyone a lot of problems.

For god's sake the new Cadillac CTS-V a 4 DOOR SEDAN, is going to have 640 hp. From the factory ! Of course I want one, but other than me they probably shouldn't be selling something like this to the public !!