My 1968 Camaro - builder?
 

....

heres the breakdown..
















































































http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...35/207/d2b.jpg

I would imagine about 6 digits $$ parts and labor for builds of that level. The crazier you get the more you pay obviously. Most places charge $85hr shop rate. Just an example: Mini tubs will cost you $350 for parts but 40hrs of shop labor ($3400) to put them in. Last I heard that's the amount of hours they charge for that particular job. Do the math, it'll add up fast.

LOL .. thats too funny !!
Your looking at $100K just in parts ... but the killer is $85/hr for labour whether it be for body & paint, and the rest if your not so mechanically inclined. Some of the builds you have mentioned have 1000+ hours into them, the math is simple and it adds up FAST ...

I know of a couple of excellent shops in the Phoenix area at $50/hr.

To get that caliber of build you will easly be over $150.000.00! Ask me how I know.:y0!:

$150k to $300k

Run for your life, forget what you have seen. :unibrow:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You will thank him later.

Why on earth would you like that one? :lol:

Yes! Yes! :theresa:

Cost to much to have built.

Sell it to me, :thumbsup:

He wasn't really trying to be funny......they're spendy. :)
Simple answer.......because they can!

You're on to something here.

That really depends on you and your resources. See above.

This also depends on the person and their resources. The ones that stall appear to be due to lacking of financial resources or builder issues.

OK, here's a moment of truth that states priority.....exterior appearance. Price all you bodywork and paint out first at the level you want and prepare for the worst case after blasting.

Then price out the suspension and brakes you envision.

Then the motor, trans, rear end.

Then the gauges, HVAC, and interior other interior features.

It's a double edged sword, put a lot of thought into your desires vs the reality of how you'll actually use and enjoy the car. It's not easy, yet done right it's very rewarding.

I've had my car 25+ years now and thoroughly enjoy every drive. If I was driving it in the green group at a Nor Cal Shelby track day it would be an embarrassment. I'd like it to hold it's own in that group but how my time allows me to use and enjoy it most doesn't justify building it to that level. As is I can comfortably sell it at a profit, if I built it for the occasional track day I'd be upside down in it and not thoroughly enjoy it.

Make any sense?

I completely agree with those that said 100k in PARTS.... That's spot on.

Labor is the unknown. Depends on who's building it and what part of the country you're in - and where you send the car. Some shops are $50 an hour - some are $100+

Cheap labor quote per hour can end up costing as much or more - because all of that depends on the shop and their skill level and on and on.


So the answer is -- there is no answer. How much of the work you can do yourself versus professionally done... how carried away you're going to get (you will).

If money is your issue - buy one that is done. Even then you can get taken.... so then it depends on how much you really know about cars - and what to look for, or if you're the kind of person that sees decent paint, you don't look beyond it, and you drop your drawers.

To answer the time question..... Cubic time or Cubic Money. If you have cubic money you can get things done because the shop can jump on the job order parts and keep someone on the car until it's done. Then it's 2 years worth.

There's only so many hours in a day - if you're building it yourself - and that is 1500 hours -- that's a full work year. Got a real job too? Oh - now you're 4 or 5 years out doing it yourself.

Funny....but oh so true.

correct.. no comedy in my post.. just facts.

pimlico, I commend you for asking this question because a lot of people are not in touch with reality when looking at these cars or starting these builds. My recommendation before starting is to decide the goal you have for the car and the build. You're going to have to be brutally honest with yourself in all aspects that matter to you. Once you've identified that goal, then you can start working towards it. You may find that buying an almost completed car or even fully completed car is the smart way to achieve your desires. Or, you may be more interested in the journey and want to learn the different skills necessary to be able to say you built it. That's the path I'm taking for what it's worth.

One thing I would mention/caution against. You don't need a fully equipped DSE car with 700+ hp to have fun or go fast. I'm assuming you're an average Joe here and not an experienced racer. A very simple build still using leaf springs, normal size one piece wheels, and a 400 hp engine will be loads of fun to build and learn how to drive. I'd like to think that goal is what brings most of us together on this site.

Good luck to you.

Good post Trey!!



The difference between buying a car done - or building it (pro or self) is the journey. Some love the hunting and the gathering and the journey... Some people would be FAR better off if they'd just shop for a decent car and be satisfied. Whatever level that is. Not everybody needs or can afford a "SEMA" quality car.

These are "toys" for boys... and it's a hobby - regardless of what route you choose.

Just be forewarned that it's not for the light of wallet unless you have good skills and time and some talent... or lots of perseverance... and some friends to help and guide.

Beware that these cars are 40 years old. They were cheap junk when built at the factory. They suffered thru a time when they weren't worth 1200 bucks... Floor's - trunks - lower body areas are all subject to rot. Rot is easily covered over by people in an effort to cover it up. If you're going to buy a 40 year old car - you'd better know what the hell you're looking at. You better learn to look at EVERYTHING with a jaundiced eye! There's more to this than shiny chrome valve covers and shiny paint.

A buddy of mine wanted a '32 Ford hot rod. He had a budget of 25 grand. We looked at maybe 200 cars over the course of a year plus.... then one day a car came up on Ebay that was only hours away... off we went... he got his VERY NICE '32 Ford Hiboy for his budget. We did NOT bid on eBay - we went and put EYEBALLS ON THE CAR!! When we go on drives and to shows.... he's having every bit as much fun in his as I am in mine that cost 10 times as much. I think he's smarter than I am.

If you buy a done car -- and the seller claims "body off" etc -- don't just rely on pictures! I can cut and past lots of pictures off the internet of bodies in bare metal and claim it to be of "my" build. So unless you can positively identify the car - or talk to the shop that did the work etc... you can get screwed. Don't get screwed! Be smart! There's "trust" but you need to VERIFY.

In the end -- if you want to build one -- and can write a check for 100 grand today to get started and write another 100 grand check in a year... then you can start one of these builds if you don't get project creep. 100 grand in parts including a body purchase of some kind for say 25 grand.... paint and upholstery will be 50K.... and labor - lots of labor.

Easy isn't it.

Where are you located roughly?? Let us recommend some shops to go talk to near you... you can then go visit them and look and see and discuss directly about "a project" and you'll get a feel for what it takes and looks like. It's fun - you'll meet some great people. It might be an eye opener for you in terms of whether or not you want to build a car vs buy a car. Maybe they'll even know a car for sale that they know the history of etc.

Mr. Weld should be and ambassador for the hot rod/pro-touring world.... Got a question call 1-800-WELD.

Mr Weld nails it on the head every time... Why because he has grease under his nails ,has money to build a professional car buy the best, and plain old knows from experience and knowledge...

I've actually copied and given some of his quotes to customers to read. I suck at being a sales man, but have a passion for what I do... This business and my work ethic and pride in what I do has taught me to be brutaly honest in every thing I do ! If you don't think and act this way it will bite you in the A$$! Not only for Me but the customer as well.

I have a $60,000.00 ebay buy in my shop that I can atest too. Person A had the car built with all the best. Everything DSE from front to back, LS3 and trans from Street & Perf. Brand new trim , interior, electrical Etc.. HRE rims, Big Brakes, Everything on the car was brand new. Probably well over $130,000.00 in the car. Car was never finished. It so called only needed a few things to get her running (that was a joke in it self) Person A ran into financial problems. Person B bought it off e-bay for $60,000 with the intent to get it running fairly quick (NOT !!!).

Well.... Now the car sits in my shop on a jig table with the hole-ass end ripped out. The paint job was so bad we ended up blasting it and found extremely poor work and unfinished rust everywhere. Hood fenders the rear quarters look new but were installed so poorly they look origanal. And on... and on.... and on....

So in the big picture (truth). Find a good solid original car and expect to spend the $ 250,000 to $350,000 for a proffessionaly built car that will start-run-drive from the first week you receive it to 5 years down the road. If not you will having to keep calling back the shop for all those fixes as if you had it built for a GOOD DEAL !

I'm not saying you can have a bitchen little Resto-mod bought and built for under $100,000 or less(depending on skill level) and enjoy the heck out of it !! But if you wanna go big there are a TON of things that will effect how you approch a build and the final out come.

Hope this all made sense ?????

Mark

Ive got my car to this point. Now to get it to this point it wasn't cheap. Things add up quick. Im going on 4 years and i still have work to do. Honestly as is without engine and trans i wouldn't let this car go for under 50k and i have more than that in it. Now If i lost my job, my wife lost her job, kid was sick, and I'm about to lose my house that would be a different story. Now something like this is i have a lot of documentation.

Things usually go like this. " well while you are in there replacing the tubs we might as well mini tub it and since we are doing that it would be a perfect time to upgrade to the dse rear quadralink." While he's right cost starts to add up really fast. You go from a few grand to 10k quick.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...14268194_n.jpg

IF you can do your own work you can get a lot for your money. I am very close to $70,000 in my project but I have owned the car for 40+ years and that cost is just the updates. I have no interior and have not even started on paint yet. But I can drive and enjoy to the car for now. If I did not have a car to start with and was not going to do the work myself I would be attending some auctions like Barrett-Jackson or Mechum to pick up a finished car.


http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro/CAMARO3.jpg

Okay... I generally prefer not to talk about $ but in this case I just wanna say I am WELL UNDER $100k in parts and well under $150k in total. Why? Because I bought a running car 5 years ago for a good deal ($29k) with a lot of nice upgraded parts -- fully upgraded stock sub, DSE leafs, mini tubbed, roll cage, pretty nice 10 year old paint job, and 550 hp SBC with a Muncie. It competed well with the $100k+ Pro Touring cars at events (why didn't I leave it alone again? :twak:) but one thing leads to another and you get bored and want more. BUT I sold a lot of those parts to the tune of 5 figures to help fund bigger and better parts... and that is why I am not at $150k to 300k like other guys. But then I don't have a $25k paint job (Honestly don't want one) and a $10k+ interior (don't want that either). My money has gone to drivetrain and suspension mainly.

Bottom line -- I knew I would change and upgrade things over time (didn't know how much or how fast) but you're way ahead if you have something decent and/or complete to start with. AND find a good builder/shop who will be HONEST with the numbers with you and not suck you in with a "good deal"... and just make sure they have actually put out some running cars that last if you go that route. Luckily my delays have been due to people not willing to work not having the time to work.

Good luck. And watch that sphincter. :lol:

Don't be Skinny Arms Rob Lowe.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslazk0f7a.jpg

Steve what suspension do you have in the rear of this car?

$250k to $350k for a decent reliable car... I am glad I did not read this before I got interested in these cars. The number boggles my mind. Surely a regular guy can enjoy these cars too. Especially if they want to tour and not race or have a 900 hp king of the hill engine etc.

I got the sense the OP is a regular guy and I think tossing out numbers like that will discourage him from owning, driving and enjoying one of these cars.

Don

I agree Don. Not everyone needs or WANTS a $150k to 200k to 300k car. Many days I miss my $30k car and how much fun I had in it.

Right on Trey.

This is why my car has been scaled waaaaaaaay back. I just want to enjoy the car and learn some tricks along the way. I'd never get there if I stayed with my original plan.

Steve, you don't need paint so save the money or donate it to me :D

pimlico, don't be discouraged. That was not the intent of my post. Just be sure to have your eyes wide open before starting this process.

Owned for 25 years and under $30K including insurance payments. All is not lost. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2...-28QW7WW-L.jpg

What it doesn't have is coilovers, trick suspension links, fancy sway bars, expensive wheels, fuel injection or LS conversion, AC, rack and pinion, tilt wheel, stereo, power windows, fancy paint (27 year old), pure sheet metal, carbon, billet, stainless, tinted glass, and cup holders.

What it does have that make the car enjoyable to drive is Momo steering wheel, Recaro seats, AFR heads, T56 Mag, 3:73 posi, firm springs, low CG, 200TW tires, C5 manual front brakes, a decent sounding exhaust, eye appeal based on general public opinion, and sentimental value.

........and it will easily go fast enough to get me thrown in jail and lose my license for a year. :D

To me the expenses really come down to your time frame, abilities, and desires. If I was going to buy a car it would probably be here or PT.com but it would have to be from a member who had good history and the car's build was documented in a thread. I think we've all seen some unbelievable deals over the years. :thumbsup:

Here's my 69 Firebird that I had roughly $30k into. Art Morrison front sub, G-Bar rear, C5/LS1 brakes, stock LS1, 8.5" 10 bolt rear, used HRE wheels, procar seats, and otherwise stock interior. My wife and I had a lot of fun cruising around in this car and the ride was far superior to a stock first gen. I sold it for what I had into it and the buyer hopped in and drove it back to St. Louis where he has been driving the wheels off it for 5 years. My wife still gives me a hard time about selling that car.

Don

Post deleted

Be careful here. The internet is awash with stories of guys who paid professional shops big money and got the same or worse. Paying big money to a pro is not a slam dunk either.

Are there any pro shops out there willing to give encouragement/hope to the average Joe enthusiast who can't afford to spend $250k building a car?

Don

By the way, no JB Weld on any of my cars. A little chewing gum and spit here and there, but no JB Weld....

:D

you just have to shop around and do your home work.

It didn't help that the OP listed the group of projects that he did in post #1


"I'm looking at restoring my 1968 Camaro. I love the style of some of these pro-touring builds such as Blu Balz and Frostbite although it's a Firebird. Another good one is Badmotorfinger v2.2. Also a big fan of Lou's Change.

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?"



I've build a bunch of cars for under $60K but none will win car shows or stain a carpet at SEMA. These are what I like to call "blue collar" cars. The ones with $9,000 paint jobs, you can drive in the rain, park on the street and enjoy when they get used. No one on that list is under $90K

That is what I am talking about Vince. Sounds like the OP and the rest of the regular Joes need to get together with you. :thumbsup:

Don

I contend you are underinsured my friend. :underchair:

Who is "everyone"? Because there are all kinds of numbers being spewed about in this thread.

Way to many including myself are lured into building way to much car. It's not dissimilar to Americans chasing the Jones. I can't count how many times I spent over $1,000 on a part that would gain me a fraction of an inch. For what?

Less is more. Make the carpet match the drapes. Make it a nice driver and performer. You don't need DSE suspension or an LS7 to do it. How much time are you actually going to spend behind the wheel? From what I've seen, 1 in 10,000 have elapsed 10k on the odometer. See paragraph one for why so many stall out.

There is a time and place for these mega builds, just don't get sucked in over your head. It's not worth it from multiple angles. Build a car you can enjoy and afford!

I guess I'm just a dumbass. I built my kitchen when we remodeled our house - demo, design, built cabinets, 60 plus drawers, plumbing, etc., and then I built my car.

Unlike Dale's assumption, some of us can figure out that welding is better than JB Weld, and that a well sorted out home built car is better than something that someone who claims to be a professional might end up building for us.

Dale: arrogance =/= professional.

I second your wife's opinion! :)

Obviously people have fun in this hobby in different ways.

Some don't mind the long build time.

For others that would take the fun out of things.

I liked modding my '70 455 Buick GS convert because it stayed on the road and it was a great driver after the bigger/better wheels and tires went on combined with an updated suspension. The fun part was that it had 510 ft lbs from the factory @2800. :)

Main thing though was it was a solid driver to start with.

So if your not married to the '68, you could potentially save a lot of time and money by selling what you have and take the age-old super solid advice...'Buy the best car you can' as the right way to start a project.

Patience pay$ off big time. :thumbsup:

I perceived the OP as unknowing and honest in his question, call him naive or whatever, but I believe many on the outside that aren't in the know so to speak and really don't have a clue what it takes to achieve what they see and think is really cool. He asked an honest question and gave images of what he envisions, can't fault him for asking, and the thread is returning insight.

The majority in this day and age appear to have few mechanical skills or knowledge which leads to assumptions that are influenced by the marketing perceptions they are exposed to.

Hell........people think my car is expensive around here........compared to their C class Benz. :D

State Farm from the beginning, limited to 7,500 miles annually, $500 deductible, full coverage less towing and rental car. I also carry a $1m personal umbrella. Assessed valuation increased to $34.5K after the fire and appraisal, $13K before which almost bit me hard.

I was paying $86 per year for a long time.........felt like Super Thief. Reality is I hardly drove it..........you know what that's like. :D My daily driver for the last ten years has 120K on it, kids and age change things.