Accusump Plumbing
 

I thought I would share my plan here and solicit any feedback before I'm too far committed...

I'm adding an Accusump to my oil system to hopefully help prevent any future oil pressure drops. I've gone back and forth on the best way to mount and route everything. I've spoken to Canton a couple of times, and Gerno and I have been going back and forth since he is doing the same thing with a slightly different setup.

My initial thought, after researching some LS and Corvette forums, was to use the metric plug at the front of the engine which feeds directly into the oil galley, right after the oil pump outlet. This would be a very convenient place to tap into with just a single adapter and hose from the Accusump itself. I thought I was done...

After much more research, there is a lot of mixed thoughts on this topic. But general consensus and the word from Canton themselves is that you want to feed the Accusump with a supply of oil that has already been filtered. Additionally, Canton suggests, although doesn't require, a check valve in the system. It seems questionable as to whether the oil pump itself is the best option to act as that check valve.

I found several people that suggest the oil filter itself can act at the check valve. That makes sense, as they have one internally. Currently, I'm just using the filter on the block in the stock location. The problem with that is that I don't have good access to a port after the filter. I would have to replace the Mocal thermostat which I use (not desirable) or tap into the oil pressure port on the valley cover (also not desirable, purely from a line routing issue in my case).

So I've decided that I will add an external oil filter. It's a good idea anyway for me to filter before the cooler, and I can use a larger filter vs. the small one the stock LS location uses. As I've been thinking about it, I'm actually leaning towards using them both. I don't see a real concern about doing this, unless it causes too much pressure drop in my system. I'll monitor this and see once I have it all together. But if I use an external filter with a higher particle rating (ie: it catches less debris), then having the second filter with a smaller particle rating may be a good thing in general.

The other issue for me is packaging. I have the perfect spot to mount the Accusump right in front of the engine behind and below the radiator. I'll make some mounts which attach to the cross tube which contains the sway bar. It will point directly towards my oil lines to and from the cooler, making the tee easy.

Mounting the external filter will be tricky. I want to frame mount it right in the path of my current lines, but there isn't a great spot where I have clearance under the frame rails between the sway bar and the lower control arms. I'm going to try and mount it such that it's basically beside the rack and pinion gear, but that's going to put it above the LCA mount. I may run a shorter than suggested filter here, which is another reason I like the 2 filter idea.

With all of that, here is the list of items I'll be adding:

• 3-quart Accusump #24-006
• 35-40 PSI Electric Pressure Control Valve Kit #24-273
• Canton's Billet mounting clamps #24-210
• A.R.E Oil Filter Mount #4010
• Fragola 90* -10AN Hose Ends #109010-BL
• Fragola -10AN Tee Adapter #482610-BL
• Fragola -10AN Straight Hose Ends #100110-BL

There's more, but that's the most of it. Here are a couple of pictures of what I'm using:

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ucts/24006.jpg

(I'm going to coat this thing black instead of leaving it blue)

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ucts/24210.jpg

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ucts/24273.jpg

http://drysump.com/images/4010%20set.jpg

The adapter fittings are all black now.

Now, here is my plumbing plan. I'll explain it after the picture:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps3a2f5977.gif

Oil will travel from the pump through the galley in the side of the block to the Mocal thermostat output. That line will connect to the input of the oil filter mount. The output of the filter will go through the core support and to the input (top) of the oil cooler. Oil exiting the cooler on the bottom will travel back through the core support to a -10AN tee fitting. The Accusump input/output will connect to the tee also. The output of the tee will feed back to the input of the Mocal. The oil will then go back through the galley of the block and into the stock-location oil filter. Oil finally exits that filter and enters the block.

This seems the best path that I've come up with. The one question I've not gotten a clear answer to is whether to feed the oil cooler from the bottom or the top. My cooler is a 2-pass cooler with both fittings on the same side. PRC who made it says it's up to me, that they don't specify top or bottom input. I could argue it either way.

I plan to change the location of the pressure control switch for the Accusump. They have a fitting to mount it to the valve of the Accusump such that it measures input right at the Accusump. I, instead, plan to mount the switch on the 1/8" NPT fitting of the filter mount which taps into the filter output. This way, if the pressure ever varies there, the Accusump can immediately enable the valve to pressurize the line. Canton agreed this was a good approach, but it's not obvious how much of a difference it would make. The switch will be before the oil cooler, and the valve after.

I'm going to wire up the signals to the pressure switch to be supplied from a Bosch relay that is controlled by my Holley HP EFI. I will enable the relay in 2 cases:

• Power on, but RPM < 450 (engine not running or starting)
• Engine running and RPM above 2000

I'm doing this because the expected oil pressure at idle will probably be < the 35-40 PSI threshold of the pressure switch. Thus, I want to engage the Accusump when I know pressure should be above that threshold. The first condition will allow the Accusump to perform pre-lube duties also.

Finally, here is a picture of where I plan to install things. Like my MS Paint-work? :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psffea1902.gif

That's my plan. I've read a lot of threads on pre-lube and Accusumps now, and I think that pulling all of that information together into this should be a good plan. As always, comments welcome.

I'll obviously be watching this. Learned a thing or two just reading this. But, i'm seriously interested in doing something like this too mine....track time baby!!!

Bryan, I'd utilize a one way valve on the cooler side of your T. I believe Earl's or Russell makes the one that I used. I'm not 100%, but I think my system was plumbed to filter the oil after it circulated through the t stat, cooler, accumulator. Is it the best way for cooler, tstat, accumulator longevity, probably not. If it saves connections and hoses, maybe it's a good trade off? Lastly, Moroso makes aluminum accumulators to avoid any powder coating needed.

Here's the check valve: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ea...0erl/overview/
The one I used was aluminum colored. Just make sure it's compatible with oils.

Todd,

Canton suggests one in their generic diagram from the tech section on their website, but when I spoke to them, they stated the check valve was optional. I didn't like the one they offer at all: it seems as if it would be very restrictive. I wasn't sure if one like you linked to above would be an appropriate option. Most of those which I've found are listed for fuel, but no mention of oil. I will go research those some more, but with the check valve in the filter, I'm not sure it's necessary...

Trying to keep the number of lines and fittings, and also the number of turns in the path of the oil, down is definitely one of my goals. I think that I can add the external filter inline and then the tee on the return side with a reasonably low number of fittings and ends. I was considering putting the filter on the return line from the cooler and attaching the tee directly to it, which would save some fittings. But after looking at everything in the engine compartment yesterday with Eric, there isn't a great place to do this which will be accessible and not require even more hose and fittings. You can see that in the picture above. The 45* kink in the frame rail would be the perfect spot for this except that: a) it's too short, and b) it's too close to the radiator for it to fit. :( I had hoped to put the filter there...

For primarily vanity reasons, I'm going to PC mine black to 'hide' it in the engine compartment and keep with the clean black/brushed aluminum theme under the hood. I ordered the Accusump through Ron Sutton, who convinced Canton to send me one which is not assembled to make the process easier. Ron tried to convince Canton that there was enough of a market for units of a different color than blue, but unfortunately they didn't think it was worth their effort to offer a black unit. We tried...

Thanx for the advice. I will check further into the check valves for sure.

This stuff is made for RACE CARS --- Racers don't care about being all color coordinated....


FYI - the one in the Lotus is electrically operated.... with the ignition switch.


The one in the Mustang is a manual valve on the tunnel by the driver seat. I kind of like the electric version in the Lotus because with all the other "stuff" going on - sometimes I forget about the valve.

I open it before cranking - watch the pressure go up - then fire off..... I don't close it then until I'm done with the event and finished. I close it just before I shut down. These race cars SIT for awhile between events --- and I feel better about a quick pre-lube after that prolonged down time.

Personally I think you're making it too complicated - but that's your deal. It's really just there as an emergency back up / momentary oil pressure loss... I don't see the need of an additional filter and all the other stuff. It's just a simple in and out pressure vessel. A lot of the race guys put a big red low oil pressure light on the dash somewhere, as most of the time we're way too busy to be checking the gauge constantly. I glance at mine (if I remember to) on the straightaways only.

The check valve is simply a flapper. They aren't restrictive and the one I used was fine for oil. I didn't trust an oil filter for back flow protection. Not all filters have a back flow valve so make sure you get the right filter.

I had great success with my accumulator. Just make sure your oil pan is your first line of defense. An accumulator is simply the back up plan.

Check Accusumps installation guide - page 3 in the link provided here.


This is really ALL that is necessary for what these do. When the small amount of pressure stored in the Accusump is done... it's done! This takes very little time to bleed off. It reestablishes pressure quickly if the pump and pressure in the motor is operating properly... but it's not like you can go on driving with low oil pressure.


http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions.pdf

Agreed. I've been researching oil filters today also of all things... I tend to agree with not trusting the filter, so I'm looking at the valves now too. Seems you can use them for oil as well, at least a couple of them are listed that way.

I am running a Champ LS pan that has the 4 diagonal baffles in it. I've learned a few things which I was doing that were wrong before that caused part of my problem, one of the biggest being having my catch can lines routed backwards such that I was sucking oil into the engine, causing my oil level to fall... Not smart. :(

Yeah, yeah... That racecar Ron Sutton fellow is making the leap, why can't the suppliers also? ;-)

The reason I can't do that alone is that the EPC I'm using will be set to open at a pressure above my idle oil pressure. Thus at idle, when sitting in traffic for example, the Accusump will dump most of its oil into the pan. For a track car you would rarely be in that condition, so it's not really a concern (Canton said the same). But for a car that sees a lot more of its miles on the street as opposed to the track, that's not the best option. Thus the control from the HP EFI.

Canton does have a 25-30 PSI switch, but they suggested I'd be better off with the protection from the higher pressure switch, and I tend to agree.

Never been told that before... :headscratch:

Agreed. In reality, that's the same circuit that I drew above, except their thermostat is after the filter instead of before it. Otherwise I'm looking to tee in the Accusump after the cooler and before returning to the block like they show. And I'm going to run the electric pressure control valve and solenoid. I just now need to decide if the check valve is worthwhile to add or not...

One other related question. Maybe I should ask this in another thread, but we'll see if anyone here knows...

I'm considering ways to prime the LS before I try and start it this time. I'm sure that spinning it for a long time trying to build pressure in the external cooler and lines didn't help my bearing problem, especially since it had sat for so long. I'd rather not do the same thing this time.

Any suggestions for ways to prime this thing? One idea I have is to use the oil galley port on the front of the block that I wanted to run the Accusump into, add a metric to AN fitting there and put an AN cap on it. But when I need to prime the system, like the first time or after an oil change, I could remove the cap and figure out a way to pump oil into it, to at least fill the lines and cooler.

Has anyone done this, or have another way to get oil into the system without spinning the motor? My lines and cooler hold at least a quart, and it took a good while to get pressure up the last time when we were spinning it all...

AH HA --- I didn't think you'd run it on the street -- just close the valve and let it sit there. Only requiring it or operating it with track use.


I don't have all that fancy pants coolers with thermostats.... Charlie and I cover our coolers with duct tape for the first session... It's a real complicated system like that. LOL


You see that cooler siting right in front there --- 3 short strips of duct tape acts as a thermostat.... No wonder I like these track only cars!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA


Never mind the fat guy over there playing with that foreign car.... It's all electronic and needs nothing but a driver. One day I'll find one.


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_1467.jpg

I certainly wouldn't expect to ever NEED it on the street. But like you mentioned above, having it triggered to always be 'ready' means it's one less thing I have to remember to do at the track that's outside of the normal driving experience. Between trying to strap myself in, turn on cameras, and think about where I'm about to drive, I don't need anything else to forget! :waveflag:

I'd like to have a track-only car, and I've been thinking about how I'd like to build one as my next project. Definitely a lot of things which would be MUCH simpler!!!

Here --- Get out your checkbook!



http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/H.../Pre-Lube-Tank

Hey -- I've gotten so used to having Ron Sutton in my pit to help me remember to check tire pressure.... put the hood pins in --- buckle in -- get my gloves on -- back the car out of the pit (hard to do with a helmet on).... remember to fill with fuel.... That when he left on Saturday last track weekend --- and I had to do it all myself on Sunday I could barely function. LOL

Nice, but ouch for a one time use! Maybe I can convince Eric that he needs one. ;)

These seem kinda cool, but I don't think they are cheep either.

http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/filter_mount.html

Thanks for doing this great info.

External electric fuel pump..... Holley universal or whatever is cheap, something to use for a reservoir and some push-lock AN fittings and hose.

Found this over at ls1tech.com

http://ls1tech.com/forums/tools-fabr...nder-20-a.html

The guy's using a Harbor Freight drill powered oil pump, and plug the output to the oil filter port, and input to a jug of clean oil.

Yep, I stumbled onto that also. Nice, but definitely spendy!

Seems simple enough, but where do you tap into the system? I'm thinking about adding a port on the front of the block where that oil galley out of the oil pump is, but I'm trying to decide what type and size fitting would be easiest. I'm targeting an M16x1.5 to -8AN fitting in the block, then just an AN flare cap to cap it when I am not using it...

One thing I forgot to mention in the original post...

Canton strongly suggested that I NOT have the Accusump hooked up during the initial startup nor until I changed the oil the first time. Apparently it's not good for the piston in the Accusump to get the assembly and break-in oil in the cylinder. May or may not matter if the Accusump is after the filter, but it's easy enough to leave it disconnected during that time.

Eric needs that start up oiling tank!!


Or you can buy it and then rent it out on here to all the guys that just start their motors up after sitting for 10 years.... LOL

I just ordered parts to get my 3qt Accusump plumbed into my 69 Firebird track/street car with an LS3 as well. I decided to mount the sump under the passenger side dash. I will be running the sump line into a Canton spin-on adapter at the oil filter (sandwiched between the filter and pan). I will be using an Improved Racing Thermostat (180?) that bolts to the pan above the filter. Lines will run from it to the cooler in my C&R rad. I've done a lot of research, but it looks like you may have done more...does this sound like it will do the job?

That was a great suggestion! I have a Harbor Freight about 2 miles from my house, so I ran by there at lunch. I got this:

Drill Powered Pump

Then I ran over to Lowes and picked up some of this:

Clear Vinyl Tube 1" OD 3/4" ID

And with some stainless clamps I have lying around, I now have this to use when I am ready to prime:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...pskve8ltny.jpg

In thinking about this, I will just pull the input -10AN line to the external filter mount and attach this clear hose to it. I'll pump through that filter, which will fill the cooler, other filter, and block after. Seems like that should work well, and the oil pump will then only have to prime the internal galley to the thermostat and line that goes to the external filter. Should do that quite quickly...

$35 or so in parts, and I'll probably re-use this when I do an oil change to flush the cooler and re-prime the system.

You have that much space under the dash? Will it be behind the dashpad (ie: hidden) or on the floor? If it charges/discharges very often, you will get some heat in there. I'm pretty mixed on the idea of having 3 quarts of hot oil in the passenger compartment myself.

Are you using a valve to shut off the tank flow? Manual? Electric? EPC?

How are you going to route the line through the firewall?

Since it's in the passenger compartment, one thing you might consider that would at least make me feel better would be to make a hardline from the Accusump to the firewall. You can have a bulkhead fitting there and use flexible line on the engine compartment side. It would just make installing the accusump a bit tougher.

Oh, and full of oil, it will have some weight to it. What are you mounting it to?


I like that IR thermostat also, but already had the Mocal. I'm not sure exactly what your flow path will be on the filter adapter though. Does that adapter have fittings on it? If so, what size?

I am running the same valve that you are. There will be a short length of 10AN hose connecting the Accusump with the motor. The oil filter adapter has one input for the sump line. The sump is mounted to the underside of a shelf that I made of 16g steel that goes from the firewall to the glove box door (takes the place of the glove box). All of my electronics for the motor, fans, fuel pump, ect are mounted to it with access through the glove box door. I'm not worried about a little heat from the sump...my car has no heat/ac.
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/1...ar-build/page7
See post #139 of my build thread

We use the front port and Iirc we use a -10 line but had to turn down the points of the wrench flats on the fitting as it can interfere with some accessory drives. I reinstall the factory plug when finished.

I don't like having a hot pressurized oil source in the passenger compartment but that's up to you. Mounting a heat source that will be 250F+ right below your electronics doesn't seem wise to me.

Yes, I took all of that into consideration. Even if the sump blew a leak, the electronics are completely sealed off in their compartment and the ECU and relays are mounted towards the middle-front of the compartment. The sump is located as far forward (to the back of the compartment) as possible. I can put Dynamat on the bottom of the shelf to further insulate my electronics.
You mentioned concern about the sump leaking/exploding in the passenger compartment and I thought of that too. I will be making a couple of shields out of 20g steel to isolate the sump. I also thought about mounting mine where yours is. If yours leaks/blows, you will have oil on the track, on headers, tires, etc. There is always a trade off. If I would have had the sump idea earlier in my build I would have mounted it in the dog house area.

Tim,

Do you have any problem using this port with the oil going into pan instead of pressurizing the rest of the system? Or I wonder if your dry sump would act differently in this sense vs. my wet sump pump?

My car came with a drill powered pump from the factory. Pull the "cam sensor"/distributor, pull the intermediate shaft with a pair of needle nose. One 3/8" hex shaft and a 20 year old 800 rpm electric drill. Spins the oil pump faster than if the car was at idle (oil pump spins at camshaft speed). Rotate the engine slowly by hand to push oil to all the galleries. Just have to know which way the intermediate and distributor was pointing. I mark the distributor at TDC and make a note on the intermediate shaft angle.

Takes 5 minutes, a 1/2" wrench, and a pair of needle nose to set up. Only thing I had to buy was the hex shaft. I wrapped the hex shaft with masking tape in the area where it passes through the bushing in case it happens to touch. This will be really handy for prefilling Accusump, oil cooler, and remote filter set-up.

I pull the belt and use a drill to prime mine, plus I have a RHS block that has priority main oiling so it's a different kettle of fish. On stock blocks the lifter galley gets the oil first. I pull the oil plug on the pan and prime it until I get a good flow of oil out of the pan, I do all this on a dyno stand so it may not be so easy with it in the car.

Bad Dyno day
 

I mounted mine just behind me on the tunnel in the car
Shutoff valve is right next to my seat.. I recently wrapped
the oil line with header heat wrap to help keep things cooler
but never really sensed any heat

Bob

Oil is NOT flowing into and out of this system.... it's only a in / out if it's needed - otherwise the oil is static. Only time it might heat up is if your car is needing the pressure during an event a few times (then something bad is going on!).

Michael ---- You may have missed that we're talking about a GM LS motor here... thus NO distributor... and no access to the oil pump.

Bummer for you... how does the LS spin the oil pump?

Edit: Never mind... I have seen one of those before - directly w/ the snout of the crank.

Yep, makes it a little more of a challenge, and thus my desire to find a good solution! :)

Accusump internals
 

My Accusump arrived yesterday. Ron Sutton ordered one for me that was not assembled so that I can have the cylinder recoated. It's on its way to the powder coater today. :)

I thought you all might be interested in seeing the internals of this unit. It's surprisingly simple. It's a piston and some o-rings, that's it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...pseikodwvf.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psj5s4mynf.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psjrr7eah0.jpg

Several things they have told me regarding the install which I'll relay here in case anyone else ever reads this:

• The mounts MUST be at the ends of the cylinder, capturing the threads of the end caps, so that you don't crush the tube
• The flat surface of the piston is the oil side (if anyone ever disassembles one)
• During disassembly or reassembly, do not do anything which would distort the cylinder. One suggestion was to use an oil filter remover that has the rubber strap and capture the cylinder in the same way the clamps should: right over the threads of the end caps
• Do not use thread sealer paste on any of the NPT fittings. Instead, only use the sealer tape

We'll have mine back next week and put it together. Simply coat the inner cylinder with a light coat of oil, put the o-rings on the piston (larger o-rings on the piston, smaller ones on the end caps), and slip it in. They also suggested a light coat of oil on the end threads to prevent the end cap threads from galling the cylinder threads.

On another forum, someone mentioned several people that had experienced problems with the Accusump units. I spent an hour reading what I could find today. Some here might be interested...

A few guys were having problems with the pop-off valve allowing oil to spew out in normal driving situations. It seems that someone (I think it may have actually been Danny Popp) determined that this was happening because the cylinder was losing its residual pressure when the engine was off. When the engine was started, there was a sudden inflow of oil pressure. With no air behind the piston, there was no 'cushion' effect to soften the impact of the fresh pressure, and it would cause the blow off valve to open. Seem that the air on the back side of the piston acts like a 'shock absorber' when there is a sudden pressure influx.

Makes sense to me.

But it seems the reason for losing the pressure was the important thing. A couple of guys reported problems with the internals of the air pressure gauge used on the units. So once I have my system active and charged, I will definitely check the pressure after the car sits to ensure that I'm not losing any pressure somehow...

Without the residual pressure, you have no accumulator. It's a reservoir. I would pressurize it with air after assembly and let is sit until the car is ready to fire. It should hold pressure indefinitely. I utilized mine for a couple years and it never lost any pressure and I had the clamps in the wrong place on purpose. It's fine as long as you don't over tighten. I would put them in the right spot if circumstance allowed.