OK time for a new rear end suggestions
 

Well I got my correct rear Forgeline wheels in and had the tires mounted. It's now time for me to pull out the stock rear in my 69 Firebird and start fitting the 19 x 11.5 wheels with 325/30/19 Pilot Super Sports inside the Alston mini tubbed rear. So my next purchase will obviously be a new shortened rear end and I'm hoping I can get some help in deciding what to go with (12 bolt, 9") possible gearing options and differential (tru track, wavetrack, etc)? Is it worth considering a floating rear end and if so what would be the best bang for the buck?

Obviously I dont' have much knowledge about a lot of this, so maybe it would be a good idea share some of the things I do know, or at least have a fairly good idea about.:hairpullout:

So here's some information about my setup:

Ridetech Level 2 AirRide
Motor will be swapped out later for a LS3 - roughly 480-500hp depending on cam choice (GM Hot Cam or LS7 cam, possibly others)
Trans will be swapped for T56 Magnum (thinking close ratio would be best?)
Tire size as mentioned 325/30/19 - can't remember what that calculated out to for overall height?
Front brakes are Baer Pro+ 14" so was hoping to possible match for the rear. Is this possible with a floater rear end option?

This car will be mainly a street car, but I would like the option of one day maybe doing some road racing and/or autox. Probably not a lot, so mostly street driven. Although I want it to be fun around town, i'm building this car as a driver and anticipate taking it out on a few road trips, so it would be great when considering the rear gearing to hear some thoughts on that. Right now I'm leaning towards 3.73 or 3.40. I'm still trying to read up on that aspect in relation to the T56 I go with.

I'm open to hear as many suggestions as people have, as at least I still have some flexibility in my overall setup since I haven't yet sourced the trans and motor, but I do have a pretty good idea of what it will be.

If I've let out any information necessary to provide, please let me know.

:thankyou:

Right, wrong, indifferent. I like both the 12 bolt & 9".
Both are more than capable.

If you choose to stay "semi-floater" then make sure you use the Big Ford "New Style" (aka Torino) flange end on either one. Especially since you do not currently have a rear brake kit and could order one for that particular flange pattern...

I chose a Strange Engineering 9" and will be going with a 3.89 gear with a 35 spline TruTrac that should work fine with my T-56 Mag (w/2.66 1st/.63 6th).

As for floaters, I think they are a great choice if you really need them (plan on Auto-X / Road Race). But not all are ready to go "out of the box". Many/most will require you to retrofit different parts/pieces from different sources for the brake caliper/rotor & parking brake of your choice to work. This may or may not be a deterrent depending on your resources/fab skills. Most of these type floaters will also keep the caliper offset far towards your frame and will not obtain the same look as the front if that matters to you...

BAER seams to have the closest thing to a "street friendly" (with park brake) full floater right out of the box, but you will be limited to only their caliper/rotors and will not be a maintenance free setup and will require some level of know how/knowledge to monitor. Not difficult and outa all fairness so do all the others, but just cant install it and never look back that's all...

For me, I am going to be running my own "floater" set-up https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=48782 . I think is a great balance of everything. Reap the benefits of a full floater, purchase all components at any Chevy Dealership, Run ANY brake manufacturer you want that offers a brake kit for a C5/6 Corvette. Oh, and minimal to no maintenance when compared to ALL other floaters.

Hope this helped.

Jay

Very cool idea, Ron. :thumbsup:

I've liked this idea for years, but was always warned against it. I was told the pressure could bleed off if the car sits for a long while. IMO if the system is sealed it could not bleed off but others disagree, Your thoughts??

Just read through your link.................:willy: :willy: :willy:

I really DON'T know much about rear ends! May have to read more info to make sure I'm understanding everything, and I KNOW I'll need to find someone who can fabricate whatever I'll need.

I add more comments below as I also "quoted" the post from Ron. Some of these comments are in regards to you product offering and things Ron touched on as well. I'm really hoping I can get some of this figured out, as I have my rear wheels now and need to pull the stock rear end. My other issue to deal with is setting up the mounting on the new rear end for my Ridetch set-up, but MCB told me I can get another set of mounts when I got to this point.

Ron, as mentioned above I still feel I'm a little overwhelmed with all the information, options, can/can't do options, etc. I am interested in learning more about both Jay's option and the option you mention below for a floater set-up. Although I may not "need" a floater set-up at the moment, if I decide I want to track the car/autox at some point, I don't want to have to reconfigure the rear end/brake set-up all over again due to problems with the flanged end type set-up. Brake knock back is definitely something I don't want to deal with.

I know I want to stay with the same Baer brake set-up as the front, which I think they only offer 13" & 14" rotors so I'm not sure how much this will limit my choices. I am interested in the "line lock" solenoid option for a parking brake, as long as there aren't any concerns as pointed out above?

If you want to stay with the Baer brakes they also make a floater option that has parking brake provisions and uses a aluminum backing plate so it doesn't add a bunch of additional weight. if you don't want to deal with pad knockback or leaks, go with a floater and be done with it. I've been using the Baer floater in my car for 4 years now and have had zero issues with it.
I would recommend a tru-trac for your intended use, I tried using the wave-trac initially in my car and liked the way the car turned with it, but it just wasn't very durable.

More input.
 

Yes, does get a little complex. And I will concur with the incredibly knowledgeable Ron (for what its worth cuz Im nobody :waveflag: ) in that a "traditional" full floater (Moser, Speedway, etc.) is hands down a stronger/lighter system simply due to the dual tapered bearing design and its being lighter mainly due to its lacking an emergency brake system.
BUT,,, is GM's/SKF's C6 ZR1 or C7 hub like I utilize in my offering strong enough? Mark Stielow seams to think/prove so...

And although it does add some pounds for adding the luxury of having an actual emergency brake (not park brake, but an actual emergency brake,,,, BIG difference), I personally would say weight well added to gain the benefits/street-ability/track performance at the level of a C6 Corvette!

With that said, I have been a BIG fan of dual tapered bearing designs for years and have quite a bit of hands on experience with them as well, and unquestionably are strong/light/great/proven AND are the best choice for "Track Cars" that spend most of their time at tracks,,,, BUT lack what is required for a "true" street car/daily driver IMO.

Although you can add spot calipers, line locks, valves, etc. NONE of these are considered an emergency brake and will do nothing for you should you have a brake failure while actually driving/racing and are not really a street/daily driver solution IMO. I think the word is "compromise" that would be appropriate when making the decision which is best for your car.

Jay

Ron, I had DSE weld the ends on since they're relatively local to me.

Jay, I'm not sure I understand the difference between an emergency brake and a park brake? I'm assuming either could be attached to work with the stock pedal, which is why I don't understand the benefit of one over the other?

Wasn't the true floater designed to overcome the stesses placed on single bearings, especially when added load due to cornering? That and problems with the flange ends typically leaking? So the floater moves weight inward and off the very ends of the rearend, while also utilizing duel tapered bearings. So what due they lack for the street car/daily driver?

Sorry for all the questions, as i said I don't know a lot about this and have just been trying to read as much as possible to make sure I make the right choice the first time in order to alleviate any problems in the future.

thanks

Tim, I had tried looking at the Baer website to determine what their floater option incorporated but they didn't offer a lot of information. Is theirs a system similar to the setup Jay has come up with? I believe he mentioned in his first post the Baer setup, but I didn't know anything about it or how it compared to a full floater design as it looks like it doesn't move the brakes very far inward to reduce the amount of weight on the ends.

All of these could be viable options for me, and I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I was hopeful it would be from people who have some real world experience with different setups, such as you. I just hadn't every seen any mention of anyone using Baer's floater setup, even though it seems its been out for some time? Appreciate yours and everyone else's input to hopefully help guide me in the "right" direction!

No problem on the questions.

A parking brake is not intended for anything but being applied once the car is parked and was not designed to be applied at speed or problems will most likely occur, whereas an actual e-brake can be used at speed in an "emergency" hence the name e-brake.

Items like "spot calipers", "line locks", "in-line ball valves", etc. that are sometimes used on "traditional" full floaters to overcome their street ability shortfall, will only work after the car is at a complete stop, and are mostly fine for the "letting the car warm up stuff" at the track, but would you trust your car on a sloped road with these set-ups, not to mention for any length of time? Will your car be where you left it when you get back? Personally I would not trust the above mentioned in a car that is daily driven and that usually finds itself in scenarios/locations that require a proven set-up that was actually designed/rated to hold your car in the same location it was originally parked...

I know some people may disagree because perhaps they have one of these full floaters outfitted with one of these devices, but for those people,,, I bet if I asked you to take your 100+ thousand dollar car and park it on a steep incline road for 24hrs that you would most likely think twice as these devices are not rated/intended for this and would be an uncertain outcome....

Now with that said there ARE "parking brakes" that will hold on steep incline/declines for periods of time, these types would be like the ones offered in most all Wilwood, Baer, etc. big brake kits. But these are actual brake in drum set-ups similar (but not the same) to the C5/6 e-brake.
With the exception of Baer's full floater, and mine, there are no other floaters that actually incorporate a legit parking/e-brake. (I did not forget the Wilwood offering for the Mod-lite hub, but this .81" rotor would see its death most likely after one track day with aggressive driving so I am not counting).

I have installed on traditional full floaters what I would consider some of the best spot calipers available (Ipsco), and are still questionable in daily driven scenarios IMO. I have also ran many line locks in my day and would rather not trust my car to it based on a daily driver that finds itself in many scenarios that require a full proof parking-brake/e-brake... track in the pits,,, yes,,,, inclined/declined roads in the real world,,, NO.

A floater actually carries the weight of the car out at the hub, and no longer burdens the axle/bearing/seal from torsional flex as a semi-floater does.

It is not that you cannot run a "traditional" style floater on the street because many do. When I referred to a traditional full floater as not being street friendly it was in comparison to my set-up that requires virtually no maintenance and incorporates an e-brake which makes this a very user/street friendly set-up in comparison to most all traditional floaters.

So to recap, IMO if the floater (any ones floater), does not utilize an actual in drum parking brake or even better, an actual e-brake, then I would not consider it a street driven/daily driver set-up that you can fully trust.

Jay

I concur with Jay on the parking brake. The line lock is a track car trick to eliminate the parking brake weight & friction.

If you want to have a parking brake and run Baer brakes ... I think you can achieve that with eithers Jays C6 end floater or the Baer floater. That at least narrows it down for you.

Best wishes.

Jay, do you happen to know of a link that you could post up about Mark Stielow's thoughts on the setup your talking about? I'd like to read up more about it and his thoughts if he's been running it for a while.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on The GMR parking brake?

http://thegmr.com/?page_id=1706

This may offer additional options I'm guessing? Like I said, I'm really looking to try and learn as much as possible before spending money and worrying about whether I made the right choice?

The Baer floater moves the brakes more than an inch inboard. When I converted my wife's first gen I had to reclocked the calipers so they were forward of axle centerline to keep them from crashing into the frame when the suspension was at full articulation. You may or may not have to do this depending on the width of your housing, her car has a very deep dish on the wheels. As far as the parking brake... it's NOT an emergency brake but I certainly wouldn't have any problem using it to park the car on a incline and having it hold fine, it utilizes a drum inside the floater hub and will work as well as any other parking brake that comes with most aftermarket brake kits.

As far as maintenance goes.... I use the seals-it inner seals so my bearings are greased just like the old school front wheel bearings that were commonplace on cars for decades. I simply repack them when I replace worn out rotors... the grease and bearings look fine every time.

Click here and is about the fourth post down #694 https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...=39584&page=70

That spot caliper is the one that I mentioned in my earlier post and "Ipsco" makes them. Just FYI. That was a solution that I discovered for GMR customers when I was involved with The GMR. Customers loved the full floater "movement" when GMR/I introduced it years ago, BUT like you, they all wanted a parking brake since they were also running on the street and this would be needed and was one of the solutions I came up with. Will it hold a parked car? Sure will,,, on a steep incline/decline,,,, nope. Will it work in an emergency type situation? Nope, it will not. This is however a great solution for a traditional full floater that will spend most its life at the track and needs something to hold it in place while it warms up.... PLUS you will need a weld-on bracket to locate it onto your axle tube which again makes this a fabricator type item/install of which I actually do have the brackets for.... as you will see by the time you purchase these spot calipers, brackets to weld to the axle tube to hold them, pay a fabricator to install,,,,, you will have spent more than the actual entire C6 Corvette E-brake set-up that works flawlessly, and is proven, and is available at your local GM dealer or online parts stores....

Not just cuz its mine, but if a guy told you he had a set-up that reaped the benefits of a traditional full floater, required basically zero maintenance, and incorporated an actual Emergency Brake (not park brake), and you could run the brake manufacture of your choice,,,, wouldn't this pretty much fit the bill? What more could you want? Just ask, maybe it does it too :)


Jay

????
 

Ron, just outa curiosity. I was wondering what one of the Speedway Floater Hub set-ups weighs that you run on your track cars? I am curious as to what the actual weight savings is. :thankyou:

Snout -
Hub (steel or aluminum? -
Bearings/Races -
Drive Plate (I assume you run steel) -
Studs -
Caliper Brackets/gussets) -

Also if you wouldn't mind?

Rotor Adaptor (steel or Aluminum?) -
Rotor 13"x1.25" -

Jay

Just wondering if you have any ideas on how i could get rid of my stock parking brake pedal and relocate somewhere else? Not sure where, or how else to do this, but I've been looking for idea.

In your previous link you shared, it mentions that your kit requires 33 spline axles from Strange Engineering. I tried going to their website but for whatever reason it's down. Since I need a new complete shortened rear end w/posi, I was wondering if you had any recommendations who I might order the entire rear end from? You had mentioned in your post below that Strange was on board, so I was hoping I could look at their options online. Anyone in particular I should talk too? Other options to look at?

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=48782

Also, as I have already recieved my Forgeline wheels will they fit onto the hub you are offering and will the studs be the same size as those on my Baer Pro+ front hubs?

IIRC, my Speedway housing (different than Ron's mod lite above) with the DSE quadralink brackets weighed about 18 lbs lighter than my DSE/ Moser housing.

NASCAR parts FTW :cheers:

Have you looked at Lokar's site yet? http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/eme...akes-main.html

Yes my "kit" requires that the hub side of the axle have 33 splines to match the C7 Hub. The carrier side will be determined by what carrier/spline you choose.

Have you considered purchasing your rear-end set-up from one of our site sponsors? I know both Vince & Donny over on my thread offered their services, and I know Ron would help out, and believe all have access to Strange products and will be able to guide you into a set-up that works best for you based on your car and your expectations.... of course I can help out with the my kit!

Yes, these hubs have 2.756" wheel pilot and should fit your Forgelines perfectly. The C7 Hubs come with metric studs and I will assume your Baer hubs have a 1/2-20 ?? Either way either you or I can outfit the C7 hubs with ARP studs to match what you have. Let me know.

Ron,
As usual, thank you for taking time to answer, and in detail, but I think I did not ask my question clear enough. I was not needing the entire full floater rear-end set-up weight because I know there are many variables.

What I was trying to figure out is the weight ONLY for the items that I had listed. So basically if you took the components I have listed again, throw them on a scale,,,, what do they weigh?

(1) Snout -
(1) Hub (steel or aluminum? -
(2) Bearings/Races -
(1) Drive Plate & Cap (I assume you run steel) -
(5) Studs -
(1) Caliper Bracket/gussets) -





Thanks in advance, Jay

Thanks for the input on parking brake options. I'll have to look into some of those options.

As for the rear end purchase, or any parts for that matter, I try and utilize site sponsors from Lat-G and PT as most all of them have been more than helpful when my limited knowledge needed some guidance! Most all of my other purchases have been through MCB as they are great to work with, and also Swain from Budnik as he offered me a great deal on the front brakes. With the floater rear end options and some of the newer products on the market, such as yours, it's more difficult trying to figure out who might be able to help.

I think you are correct about the 1/2-20 studs on the Baer hubs, I'd have to verify. I definitely want to outfit the rears with the same. Got your PM so I'll be in touch to discuss more in detail about your option. I'm starting to get a clearer idea on what I need, but then again I may be completely wrong and not even know it!:EmoteClueless:

thanks, Jake

Anybody have any experience with the Moser offering they rolled out last year? Problem for me is the Wilwood brakes designed for this application rather than the option of the Baer.

Still might be interesting for others.

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/mo...ific-rearends/

Hey Jay,

Next time I'm at my shop ... which isn't often ... I'll grab those parts and weigh them. They are going to be heavier than the C6 ends and assembly. I'm just not sure how much heavier.

I sincerely apologise in advance.......but the title of this thread has been egging me on for days and I could no longer resist.

OK time for a new rear end suggestions

This one from UCLA isn't bad IMHO............

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-D...DQnVVXX-XL.jpg

.......again my apologies but............:sieg:

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Although in the end, that rear would probably end up costing me WAY MORE than I bargained for!!!!

Great view!

No worries Ron, just figured if they were handy. Thanks!

:ohsnap: Hands down THE BEST option thus far! :headspin: