69 Camaro - JKnight
 

Intro - I've been around the scene a long time but have never really shared much about my project. There's a lot of reasons for that. One, I don't have a lot of great parts or skilled work to show off. Two, getting through my twenties and the great life events that go with it have often put a stranglehold on the budget. Lastly, the work I have done since acquiring the car in high school (1999) has been mostly bolt on/parts replacement type work.

History - the car was restored and heavily modified in 1983. All of the paint and body is as it was completed at that time. Here's a pic of the prior owner with it at the Car craft nationals around that time, I believe.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image-1.jpg

Here's one from high school.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...6/69Camaro.jpg

Current status- The car is 97% assembled and roadworthy, but that 3% is a real issue. The body has issues, no way else to describe it. I'll get into the details of that later. My guess is that every piece of sheet metal from the doors back will need to be replaced at some point.

The goal - I'd like to get the car roadworthy and use it on the street on nice days. Auto crossing is a possibility but not a huge priority.

Here's some recent (and some not so recent)pictures. These were before I lowered the rear with new springs and added the watts link:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...90909-1909.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...scarSept07.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...wSept20072.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_4.jpg

Ever since I've owned the car, it's had a recurring theme of electrical issues, mostly confined to the charging and ignition systems. As a result, one of my latest projects was to rewire the car from the firewall forward. I went with some components from MAD electrical as it would allow me to leave everything from the firewall back in tact. The way I look at it is I'll give this a shot and if I still have issues, everything will come out and replaced with an AAW classic update.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_9.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_5.jpg

Let me start off by saying, I'm open to any and all feedback or advice. I'm a finance guy and fully understand that, like Greg, I have tools and one day hope to learn how to use them. So here's my current dilemma...the trunk floor is totally shot. This includes the mounts for the tank straps and the area where the battery currently resides.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_6.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_3.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ds/image_1.jpg

So, without revealing my own thoughts on the issue, what do you guys think should be the next corse of action based on what you can see here?

I acquired two new frame rails as the originals both have some rust issues or extra holes and it's apparent the driver side rail received some "adjustment" at some point. I've been putting together a project plan and will post it soon to get feedback and so it can serve as a table of contents for this phase of the build.

I also have new tailpan supports and mini tubs since I'd probably better do that while I'm in there.

I'm lined up to take my Sabbatical from work for the entire month of April 2016. The plan is to spend the time getting the car out of the "jackstand class" and driving again.

Biggest item on the list, and where I need the most advice, is replacing the frame rails and trunk pan. From my Lat-G crew, I'd love to hear any advice on the best way to go about accomplishing these tasks. I bought a good set of spot weld cutters and I'm ready to tear into it, but any tips or even detailed instructions would be welcome!

Jeff I have no advice to give on how to accomplish this, but it's one of those things that is highly rewarding when the job is completed. Post tons of pictures and ask plenty of questions. You know the crew will jump in and offer input.

Have Fun!! :weld:

Wow. I have seen you driving around my neighborhood in that car. I have actually seen you and car on my street...lol. It certainly does sound good. I wish I had some advice for you but I'm sure there is a ton of people with advice here for you. Good luck with it. I hope to see more of it.

Thanks Curtis. I don't really know what I'm doing but I don't mind too much. I haven't known anything going into any other project I've done with this car in the last 15 years so why should this be any different? I'll definitely be taking pictures and posting as I go along.

I guess where I'm a little hung up is the big picture order of operations.

Right now I'm thinking:
Disassembly; Cut out trunk pan; Install minitubs, Install trunk pan (don't weld to old rails); R&R Drivers Rail, R&R Passenger Rail, reassembly.

I figured it's probably a good idea to never have both rails out of the car at once.

Really? Must have been a while ago. Poor car hasn't run in over 5 years. We bought and moved into our house in 2011 and everything car related was out-prioritized by house stuff.

Many have tried... many have filed! LOL

Seriously, good luck with it and post it all up!

:cheers:

Have you considered an Art Morrison rear clip? It might be easier to install with the new trunk floor and mini tubs.

Don

Hey Don. I definitely considered it. Needing to remove the rails made it a logical option. However, it's more coin than I need to spend given my intended usage of the car. I think I've concluded that I'll never be the guy traveling to road course and USCA events regularly. Plus, when I do make it out, I won't be the guy who gives a **** about competing near the top. Not gonna happen.

Yeah, I may join the club. 4 weeks can go by pretty fast when you're as slow at working on cars as I am.

No idea how I missed this post originally. I love the tilt front end. I can't help with the work you're planning other than to say plan ahead and to wish you good luck.

If thats the case, there is one running around that looks like it...lol. Although I haven't seen it in awhile. Are you in the NW Peoria/Phoenix area?.

Yes indeed. Although I prefer to call it the "upper west side", lol...

Thanks Trey. The front end is a love-hate kinda thing. It saves a ton of weight over the front end, right where it helps most, and makes working on anything forward of the doors super easy. But...the grille opening is the incorrect size for factory parts, necessitating something custom for the grille and headlight mounting. The 80's-rific L88 hood scoop isn't exactly the hip look these days, but it's not horrible enough to make me want to get out the cutoff wheel and fiberglass to replace it with a smaller cowl scoop.

There's nothing wrong with the L-88 hood!! I like it.

I'm refining my project plan as much as possible and ran into a packaging challenge. I'm trying to figure out how to mount the shocks inboard of the frame rails for tire clearance. But, the Fays2 watts link frame interferes with mounting shocks (using DSE lower plates) behind the axle. Upper mounts would be an issue as well.

Are there any inherent problems created by mounting both shocks in front of the axle?

I'm working on some of the little issues now so that when April comes I can be focused on a smaller list of tasks. I decided I would tackle the drivers' door panel today. Around 2011 I installed one of the reproduction deluxe door panels I had acquired on eBay in 2003 for about $200. Subsequent I ssues encountered with this panel include 1) the door never shut properly, as if the panel was misaligned, and 2) window crank wouldn't reach the splines on the regulator.

So, first order of business, make absolute sure I have deluxe regulators. Based on the 1 3/16" length and 4 markers on the stub, I confirmed they are deluxe regulators. Whew...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ads/image.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_9.jpeg
Here you can see the thickness difference between the repro and original (I removed the vinyl in hopes of re-covering the originals,but the foam was probably too damaged to look smooth under new vinyl, thus the repro install)

Original
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_1.jpeg

Repro
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_2.jpeg

As with most things on this car, when I look at one thing I find at least 3 more issues. This was the case today. I had always known there were lots of clunks and rattles when driving, but chalked it up to the 'character' of an old car.

Rattle source #1: 2nd gen side mirror adjuster just laying in the door.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_3.jpeg

Rattle source #2: rear regulator bolt hole in door frame had been mangled at some point, so the bolt wasn't actually clamping anything, allowing this leg of the regulator to swing free and bang about.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_4.jpeg

Rattle #3: petrified piece of tape stuck to...a mirror mount backing plate? Not sure...guessing they taped it inside the door for safe keeping, but it had come loose decades ago most likely.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_5.jpeg

I resolved the mirror adjuster issue, at least temporarily, by wrapping it up in foam and securing it out of the way.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_8.jpeg

The door frame issue was resolved with a little cleaning, welding (I'm new to welding and desperately need the practice so I chose not to just use a bigger washer) and grinding.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_6.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/image_7.jpeg

So there, that's a couple minor issues I don't have to deal with later. I need to get new weatherstrip for the door before I try to re-install the panel. The original ones are crumbling so no point in trying to fit the panel with rubber that won't be used in final assembly.

Hi.
 

Hi, glad to see you're making progress. I found a set of pliers rattling around inside my drivers side door, gee they've come in handy.😊 cheers trevor.

Haha, pliers, brilliant!

When I installed the DSE wiper motor I found they had left the transmission arms laying in the cowl area when they deleted (aka. Removed the wiper arms) the wipers and ditched the OE motor. What a racket those made over every bump!

I will say, it made reassembly of the wiper system a snap though!

Four improvements already! Well played!

:captain:

Not much of an update, but I will add that I've done a little shopping in anticipation of the 'April Overhaul'. I've never been able to get the SPC uppers adjusted for proper alignment specs (caster mainly) without compromising safety by having too little arm material inside the adjuster sleeve. Plus, I had reused the factory lowers with fresh ball joints and bushings. Speedtech ran a Christmas sale so I jumped on it and have new tubular uppers and lowers that should complement my AFX spindles nicely.

While at Barrett Jackson a few weeks ago, I cruised through the Ridetech booth and decided while I have the front end apart I'd might as well put some good shocks in it. I've driven a whopping 200 miles on the 2007 revisions to the suspension but that was enough to reveal the Edelbrock shocks were junk. So the Ridetech HQ single adjustables will remedy that shortcoming! I'm really looking forward to putting the front together the way it should have been when I went through it years ago.

I may have made progress on the "thick" repro door panel saga by locating some extensions for the crank stud that are splined and retained with a set screw. This definitely won't help the door-closing issues created by the extra girth of these panels but I'm hoping that will be remedied through adjustment (option A) or by undoing some staples and shaving down the foam on the leading and trailing edges (option B)

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. I like the sound of this "April Overhaulin".

:cheers:

A couple more questions regarding my overall plan:

1) When installing DSE tubs, is it easier at all/helpful to do when the dropped portion of the trunk pan is removed?

2) Can I do the tubs now and still run normal leaf springs/hangers/gas tank, in anticipation of actually filling the tubs with tires and a 4-link in the future?

If the answer to number one is no, that may eliminate the need for worrying about question two.

We're fast approaching the April Overhaulin. Been ordering parts and knocking out some easy stuff to free up time for the items where I'm not as confident.

Out with the old:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_14.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_13.jpeg

In with the new:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_15.jpeg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_11.jpeg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_12.jpeg

Spent last week doing house projects so I can dedicate the rest of the month to the Camaro. My 6.0L diesel F350 consumed my budget for gauges and rear shocks so the goal of driving out of the garage on April 30th will have to be missed. But, progress can still be made.

Passenger side upper, lower and shock replacement is complete.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_16.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_17.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_20.jpeg

Now I can update the alignment and close the book on the front end.

Finalized a small task that I've been sitting on for years. Since I'm not doing a hydraulic throwout bearing I still have the factory mech linkage. I wanted to minimize the slop and add adjustability so I made some new rods with right and left hand threaded rods using chromoly tube.

It was a real chore tracking down a threaded tube nut/bung/adapter with the right dimensions for the tube and threads for the factory rod that pushes on the clutch arm. Ended up finding it as a mounting bung for custom motorcycle tanks, who'd a thunk it?

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_23.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_24.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_25.jpeg

Any feedback on how this works? I would think that since it is in single sheer the connecting bolt will wiggle around on you unless you weld in on like a stud. I'm sure if this doesn't work you could always find a clevis that would fit the threaded bungs

From what I can tell it's mostly in compression, as long as the alignment from the z-bar to clutch fork is good. The heim is thinner than where the factory rod interfaced with the z-bar, so this allows a straight shot to the fork with no header interference. This definitely takes a small mount of slop out of the linkage system.

Oh, and not pictured are jam nuts below all of the heim joints. I didn't have them at the time that pic was taken.

69 camaro
 

I did something similar to my 70 bird
but the ends are bolted to a bracket they
have... the original ends were so worn they
were no longer round.. it made the clutch action
so much better

Bob

A long-running dilemma for me has been what to do for mounting the rear shocks, as packaging issues with the Fays2 watts link have been plaguing my attempts to mount the shocks inboard of the frame rails.. The picture below illustrates the current issue with drivers side mount plates.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_26.jpeg

As far as I can tell, I have a few options, would love to get feedback from the group on this:

A) Find spring plates from someone other than DSE that will not have the same interference issue. (Downside: no fun, added cost, delays due to shopping and shipping)

B) Modify the DSE plate to clear the gusset on the Fays2 plate. (Downside: removes material from the DSE plate just above the ear for the shock, though it seems sturdy enough to handle this modification)
Red line is roughly where I'd cut, blue line is possible location for a gusset if necessary.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_27.jpeg

C) same as option B but weld the two plates together to make a single unit and regain some strength removed by 'clearancing' the DSE plate. (Downside: end result is a Franken-plate, but I suppose that's fitting for this car)

Ended up going with option D, lol. Ran across some Ridetech coilover brackets in the for sale forum and figured they'd work nicely. Had to add a hole for the leaf spring bolt to protrude. Nice thing is they'll allow me to use the 14" shocks I already have. Waiting on the billet lower mount and I'll have this issue wrapped up.

I also got the Hyperco springs solid mounted as Ridetech does with them in their StreetGrip setup. A .5" (top) and .25" (bottom) aluminum lowering block Serve to take up the added depth of the multi-leaf mounts and allow a good grip/crush on the composite spring.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_28.jpeg

The upper shock mount will consist of a piece of 1.5" OD .188 wall DOM that spans between the forward mount plates of the chassis-mounted watts frame. The actual mounts are Ridetech builder pieces that should interface hook up with the stud mount shocks.

I'll have to angle the shocks a bit to clear the leafs, but should be able to stay under 25 degrees.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_29.jpeg

http://www.ridetech.com/store/upper-...dge-mount.html

While I'm waiting for the brackets I got moving on the trunk pan replacement. Started clearing away years of grime and paint with a flap wheel to make sure I had good metal to weld the new pan. As expected, the passenger rear corner is a mess. Will have to redo the majority of the metal in that corner, and the tail support. Drilling spot welds sucks...

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_30.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_31.jpeg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s.../image_32.jpeg

Keep in mind, this is the first thing I've ever done that even resembles fabrication or metal repair, so any tips or 'holy**** you're doing it wrong' warnings are welcome.