65 Porsche w C5 Drive
 

Hi everyone !

New kid on the block. Found the site recently - like an oasis in the desert !!! I've really enjoyed looking at all your sites and reviewing the Forums - some really awsome people and projects.

Here's a new twist for you to think about. I have a 65 356 Porsche coupe - and I'm in the process of installing a 2002 C5 drivetrain and suspension under it. I have to build a custom perimeter box frame - with a tube backbone so I can lower the car down. (Kinda like the Sniper that Troy did a while back) I also have to split the car and widen it 10 inches to get the torque tube down the middle. I'm sure I'll upset the 356 crowd - they call these Outlaw cars. Hope they will see it as an interesting use of the car.

I have the parts, the frame jig is done, and I'm starting to layout the suspension cradles/parts so I can determine where the upper A-arms pickups go. Does anyone know the factory suspension measurements that would help me figure out the proper placement of the upper ?? (not the alignments specs) I've read some of the threads where some people just install them to look good and don't worry about how it works at the limits - but I'd like to really make it work too ! Any help would be appreciated !!

Enjoy !!

Jim

Welcome to the site.....

-Paul

Hello Jim!!

Welcome aboard! I think you have a wery professional looking project going on :thumbsup: ! Please keep posting pictures of its progress. I love this forum,lots of hi tech cars coming together.

Welcome aboard, Jim. That's a cool project. Talk about unique! :thumbsup:

wow
 

Man that thing is cool. I have been building a truck with all C6 stuff. The C5 is almost the same. You know you talked about widening the body but why don't you just narrow the track width so it is all in the stock body dimensions. Just a thought, I got my Track width down to 60" ( from 68") I know you could get an inch or 2 more if needed. By getting rid of the cradles you can set the ride height pretty low and have tons of ground clearance. Man your shop looks super professional. I look forward to seeing more on your project. If you need some help with anything let me know. I could almost write a book with all I have learned from building mine, but I can't spell and my hands are to big so I hunt and peck the works out. My project is listed under C6-57. it should......... be at sema this year.

Rodger

Your Truck !!
 

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the kind words !

I have been tracking your project for a while dude. I actually have a book in the shop with pictures of other peoples' rides (many from Lat-G) that are doing simular projects like what I'm attempting. I have several of your truck chassic picts that I've been refering to as a guide - thanks ! That will be soooo cool - keep up the great work and I can't wait to see the deal on the road ! GOOD Luck at SEMA you lucky dog ! (wish I could get in there ...)

The reason for splitting the car is because on 356 Porsches - the pax and drive seats are literally touching. In order to get the torque tube down the middle - I'll need to widen the car at least 10 inches to seperate the seats. Other then that - I really don't need the stock vette track width. If I widen the car as stated - the stock vette track width is just right. I might shorthen it a bit so I can get a slightly deeper lip on the face of the wheels just for appearance - but the stock Porsche turbo wheels don't have much anyway.

One of my main problems is lowering the steering rack down so I can move the engine forward and over the rack. I have an LS1 front sump pan from a GTO that will let me move it forward - to gain some foot well space if needed. Once I get the upper arms set in their stock locations - I'm ready to set the body on the jig and start cutting !

Thanks !!

My friend, you are a very sick man! That is one sweet project! :thumbsup: Where are you located?

Keep sending more pics!
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
’72 442 “Inamorata”

You might want to look at my Cuda set up. We used a direct drive dragster can with a Lenco main drive so we could run a driveshaft instead of the torque tube. We also ran the exhaust in the tunnel with the driveshaft sitting over them. We have 5" of ground clearance on a car that sits lower than most guys with 2" or so. Since it's a transaxle you can get by with a 3" or smaller shaft. It's a little noiser than a torque tube but it saves a lot of space and makes maintenance a lot easier. BTW are you cutting up that cute little sunroof car?

What will the Porsche Purists think!!!!!!! :wow:

Thats an awesome idea. I love those old porsches, from the late 50's up to mid 60's!

Welcome to the site!

Tim

That is the coolest cross-breeding I have ever seen. Awesome project!!

for pops cobra project, that uses viper suspension, i picked up a factory viper assembly manual, it contains all the measurements and angles for every part of the chassis.

i took those measurments and fed them into an analyzer program, then modified the track width(narrowed) and adjusted the mounting points for optimizing the RC and bump steer. now if i just had time to put it all together :rofl:

im assuming this car is a replica, correct??

Cool project. Can you give us more shots of build process?? Like the drivetain in place and body fitment.

Chris

Thanks !
 

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and support ! I just knew you were a great crew.

ProTour442 - I live in Indianapolis, IN.

Mr. Johnson - Thanks for the suggestions and guidance. I have every pict I could find of your awesome cuda - and will be stealing every idea possible :) I can't stop looking at the wild work you and your team performed on that car. Guys like you keep me keep me working hard at building something a tenth as nice - if I can even acheive that level ! I won't be cutting the Outlaw car (blk w sunroof). That's just one I saw at a porsche show in Calf that had the look I was after - yet mine needs to be lower. My car is a real 65 coupe, single owner, 67,000 miles and when he retired he had the body completely stripped, blasted and all the metal work replaced that was bad. He primered it -and then put it into a storage bin for 20 years losing interest in finishing it (Golf...). He had already bought everything new to completely rebuild it - and that came with the car in un-opened boxes. I got the whole deal for less then the body work costs - 20 years prior..... I have attached a pict from when I brought it home.

Back into the garage to find those suspension point locations...

Going to the Good Guys in Columbus this weekend - hope to see many of the Lat-G cars as possible !!!

Jim

Very cool looking project, and ambitious to boot!

Mike

That thing will have the proportions of a Shifter kart if you make it 10" wider. LOL

Mike

drop by the Cuda and see us..you might want to discuss the driveline with Alan..do you have the vertical space for the engine up front? How far back are you sitting it?

project
 

Jim,

Love the car and the project! Keep us posted on the progress!

Darren

Drool
 

Oh, you won't be able to keep me away from you and the 'Cuda Bob, more like you'll have to chase me away....

I plan on running the exhaust under the middle just like you guys did.

I have a couple different concepts on the engine solution. Packaging on this tiny of a car will be difficult. I plan to move the engine as far forward as needed/possible to get foot-well space. The wheel base is very short and on the 356 the front wheel center line is right where the firewall begins on most US car. The 356 shares a 'trailing-arm' suspension design with the VW - and that concept allowed more foot-well space in stock config. I'll need to place the engine over the steering rack - probably at the back of the block skirt to counter that. I have an LS1 GTO front sump pan if I need it. Or, I could rear-steer the stock vette setup - but that screws up the geometry and ackerman a bunch. (I could make it a trailer show car huh ...) There is a bulge in the hood and the engine in stock vette height fits nicely with plenty of room if I solve the above. I could also lower the steering rack by cutting off the vette steering arms and bolt on the lower steel arms from 21st Century.

Backup plan if I run into the hood line is to reverse the intake and connect to the cowl vent plenum where there is plenty of space with the engine forward - plus that's a seldom used concept today and might look trick. Most people are plumbing directly from the grill(s) - which I plan on doing if I don't reverse the intake. I will bottom-feed the radiator like the stock vette setup. With a little space management it will all fit and should be a ball to engineer and package - let alone drive the wheels off !

Can't wait for Columbus !

Jim

I didn’t read this whole thread its late, But we do have a jig at 21st century to narrow the rear cradle. The front could be done just as easy we also have a solution to use the c5 diff with transmission bolted to the back of the engine just want to give some other options.

Also it is not as easy as just bolting on a set of our steering arms you need our modified rack with it mounted in the location we mount it on our frames as well as the same exact track width. We spent a lot of time with the bump steer gage so just throwing a set of our steering arms on there wont due you much with out the exact same specs as our sub frame.

Thanks !
 

Hello Brian,

Thanks very much for the info and help !!! I'm going to setup the jig to stock specs and see if that works before I start to build the frame. Looks like I'm still going to need to split the car - so I will trial fit the stock suspension and engine locations at that time. If it doesn't fit and I need to lower and/or shorten the deal - I'll give you guys a yell to save me from myself. :)

Thanks again ! Jim

I built a 356 speedster years ago for my wife. It was a CMC replica but sure looked nice when I finished. Anyhow. It sure seems that if your going to do this kind of install that the whole floor and firewall will be removed leaving just a outer shell. It seems that you would be able to move the seats towards the doors a little and have enough room for the torque tube. The tube is not that big anyhow. I know the seats in these Porsches are mounted towards the center of the car so they sit down in the pan but with this kind of car you might can remove those huge rockers and move the seats over. I would hate to under take cutting that car in half. Go get a flared fiberglass tube for $2000 rather than cutting that original. Its going to be killer project no matter what you do.

Mike

Hi Mike,

The car parked behind my 65 coupe is a CMC 57 Speedster Calf version with flares (at the top of the thread). I've had it for many years. I really thought about doing this to the speedster - but changed my mind - even after a couple years of night school at Purdue taking Composites classes. Convertibles here in Indy are a pretty limited usage car. It rains quite a bit - and then all summer it's drippy humid. Guess I'm getting old - but I chose to have real windows and A/C so I can drive it most of the year. I plan to pattern and template the frame and stuff so I can replicate the frame - and maybe I will do the speedster too.... we'll see what the wife has to say about that one ... :eek:

Jim

Nice CMC. I will go find my pictures of the CMC i built. It had a 200hp stroker motor with quad weber 44 carbs. I had well over $6K into the motor alone on that car. I ended up selling the car after I finished it because there was no way my wife could have drove it. It had on off switch power which I could not even get used to. LOL I will say that those flat 4s sure sound bad to the bone with a big merged exhaust and single turbo muffler.

You should be able to notch or remove those rockers to move the seats over to make room for the tunel. I still dont think I would cut the car in half. You could always flare the fenders and quarters to fit the wheels under. I think that car could use some flares to make it look mean.

mike

200 Hp !!!!
 

1200 pound plastic car + 200 hp flat 4 = pure heat baby !

Nice to see the sickness continues !

LOL, The guy that built the engine up in ATL asked what the engine was going in and he just laughed when i told him it was a replica 356 speedster. Proflow performance was the name of the company if I remember righ. He has the fastest bug on this side of the states. Or at leat he did when he built my engine.

Mike

I'm new too
 

Looks like a great project and a beutiful car to start out with. I will like to see the finished project. That is quite a torque tube. Good luck.

Wow !
 

Wow, the G Force is awsome in person !!! I gawked over it for a long time - several times. And all the people around it.....geez. I would love to see that up off the ground to get to look at all the artwork. It was just impossible to get close to you for an introduction. I got there right as they started to judge it at 9 - so you were busy. Came I back before lunch - you were gone - came back at 2 and you and Alan started it up and drove off. But, I did get to hear that baby run - that exhaust sound is wicked sir !!! Sorry I missed you. Maybe I'll catch you at the Mopar Nats.

Hope you had a great weekend and get a chance to rest up a bit.

Wow is all I can say !!!!!

Get to work ...
 

Hi All !

Been a couple months. Between people in the family having surgury and/or putting in a bunch of posts around the garden - I havn't made much progress on the project. But I do read all the posts here each day for motivation ! Thanks !!!

Purchased a BER 2002 convertable vette chassis a while back and have it setup on the jig now with all the suspension in place. Amazed that someone would burn a vette for the insurance - instead of drive it - or set a guys vette on fire for revenge - takes all kinds... Took several weekends getting all the burned up carpet, pads, seats, wiring, dash, and what was an endless carbon mess out of the car. Once I got down to the bottom - there was no damage to the composite floor pans - had it been a coupe, it would have melted clean to the ground. No damage to the frame.

Now in the process of the 4 wheel alignment and building the suspension jig. Then the vette chassis gets sold - drop the porsche on the jig and get the whiz wheel going.

The porsche is up on stands with the front suspension stripped out now and just finishing pulling the trans and stuff out of the back.

A little progress each day.... NEVER surrender !

Jim

Wow looks like your moving along. i have customer who is wanting us to build an 356 coupe with modern porsche drivetrain. I'm trying to talk him into a tube chassis to make room.

Rodger

Quick Update.

Vette chassis on jig for alignment and suspension positioning completed. All the stock suspension points identified and transferred to a jig cradle. Removed the chassis. Mocked everything back up for a quick doublecheck - then blew it apart and sanded and primered the jigs. Next step is to put the Porsche body on the jig - get the wheels under it and set the rake/attitude.

I look forward to these updates. You meticulousness is unbelievable. I have a friend whose attention to detail and his shop is as clean as yours. He spent a career in the Champ/Indy car world. The racing world reflects that level of professionalism. How about you?

Darren

JetMac
 

Hi Darren,

Probably my aircraft background pushes me to be neat and clean. 26 years in aviation and we aren't allowed to be sloppy. We are in an environment where you constantly clean up before-during-after the job so it becomes standard practice. Plus for the past 15 years I've been an instructor - and we have to constantly remind people in class and out in the hangar and shops to do the same.

Lived here in INDY my whole life and have been into the Indy/Usac/NHRA deal since I was very young. I live just down the road from all the small and big race shops - and they are clean as can be. Some of the F1/Indy/Nascar shops are nicer then the inside of most peoples homes. Check out Ganassi Racing some time to see what I mean. They are a block from where I work at the airport and it's unbelievable the conditions of the current professional shops out there.

Plus the garage is attached to my house - so the wife wouldn't appreciate tracking all that inside .... :eek:

Jim

Built and installed 2 of the 4 support tubes - installed 3/4 all thread rod at all 4 corners for adjustment. Put the tires/wheels under it and the cars ready for ride height adjustment. Looks like I'll need to cut out the inner wheel wells before I can started though. The stock 4.5 wide wheels and the stock wells - just weren't designed to have 11 inches of tread in there !! :yes:

Man that 20 years in a storgage bin primer sure is ugly.

Next step: weld in some slip-joint cross bracing inside the body - and split it down the middle and widen the car 10 inches. That should be a heart stopping Point-of-no-Return.... :eek:

that thing is going to be sweet, :hail: good luck with widening the car, have you thought about having artmorrison bend you the main rails? might take some of the fab work off your plate. keep us updated

Got a little work done this week. Pulled the front suspension, engine, trans and rear suspension. Removed the headliner and all the interrior insulation, wiring, wiper motor and arms, and the steering column. Front wheels were able to tuck up in the wells - but the rears were no where close. So, time to cut them out. No turning back now....

Look'n Good! :thumbsup:

Got some cutting done this afternoon. Need to support the tail - so I'll build/prime some body supports tonight and finish cutting out the opening Monday. Can't wait to get some tires in there and set the attitude so you guys can critique the stance for me. Right now it's 5 frnt and 6 in the rear - but I think the rear will need to be higher. I can cut and extend the rocker panel since there is nothing behind it - that would make it look lower and be an easy mod.

As Scott said on another thread - and so it begins !

Justanova - Thanks for the support sir ! I have talked to Art and some of the sales guys at several shows and asked if they'd do a complete chassis for this - but with the C5 stuff in the back they wern't interested in doing the whole thing since they prefer the 9 inch assy. So I do plan on having them do the main rails and the rear section w/o the C5 gear, and I'll fab in the brackets. (take a look at the G Force Cuda site - it will look like that in the back- Thanks Bob and Alan !! - or see Ironworks' C6 Truck rear setup - it's wicked too)

thats gonna be sweet..one near me on craigslist a 911/930 with a chevy 350 in it.. im tempted to go look..

Hay thanks for the props on the chassis. Have you seen the posts on the Zo6 nova we are building? It is the projects section (66 nova update). We started on the chassis last week. We will be mounting the transaxle next week. We already got the lowers mounted and need the torque tube and engine to keep going. This one is going to be a real bad boy.

Looks like your moving right along.

Rodger