Ousci
 

Why is there no info on what happened this weekend?

HAHAHAHAHA! What a great question!


Maybe nobody on here cares about Evo's and GTR's??

Just seems weird. That was all the talk. And now the silent treatment.

Oh trust me ---- I've mentioned that to several people....

I went to every one of them -- and worked at many of them.... this year I didn't even go.

https://clubregistration.net/clients...06&class=OUSCI

Check out the results for yourself. Not much to talk about, on this forum. I'm sure other forums are blowing up with posts...

Have gone every year too (including this year) and while there's still plenty of American muscle to enjoy the viewing experience has become more and more disconnected. It used to be that you felt like you were apart of the action and you could often be so close you could feel the V8 rumble in your chest. This year you were standing behind fences 100's of feet from event. I personally don't enjoy sitting in a grandstand ala NASCAR.

The old events, what were they? RTT...wherever, were these events year specific?
After seeing the results of OUSCI and reading about the new SCCA rules, it's got me thinking, what does the next few years looks like for these events?
Besides specific club events, is there no real classic american muscle type events?

:rolleyes:

It would be nice to hear from some of those that competed. The speed stop looked like a great way to slide sideways into cones and flat spot tires from the videos I saw.

Anyone know about a build thread on the Dusold Camaro? I dig the few crappy pics I've seen of it on Facebook.

The event didn't get over until 6 last night, many took red-eyes home, I stayed over and got home at 4:30 this afternoon. Hopefully we'll hear more when people recover from sleep deprivation. :thumbsup:

I know he has a least a few shots of the chassis on Facebook. It's pretty cool! The car used to have stock floors and frame rails...

WOW! That's a bad ass race car!

I agree. This was my 3rd year attending and I left feeling disappointed. I would say I enjoyed Pahrump the most. Goldberg was cheesie but entertaining. It was mainly muscle cars with a few exotics and modern cars. Now that has done a 180. So many new Camaros and Mustangs with a handful of Porsches and Evos.

Pretty difficult for the PT crowd to compete with all the modern technology, ABS, AWD, etc.

We need our own series. Pre 75 would be a blast. It would be like an old Trans Am series club race. In a year or two there will only be a couple PT cars out there.

I also agree with how disconnected it felt. I even liked last years set up better. This years was way too spread out.

I got a free hat though.

Guess,it's like any other event. Starts out real fun and after a few years it gets real serious real fast. Just look at good guys autocross. It started out small and fun Now it's turned into a all out competition with purpose built race cars instead of street cars and points etc. not that it's a bad thing. Just different

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)

I spent a lot of time doing lap time comparisons for the road course and the autocross.... The times show driver talent... they show SEAT TIME (very important!)...


Danny Popp wins because he has SERIOUS TALENT..... and that floats to the top. His car is well prepped.... but it's his talent that wins. If a guy goes out and runs 1:40 -- he goes out and lays down a 1:39...

There are a few people with the talent and seat time to run near or at the top -- but a couple of them had issues at the track so knocked them out of contention. Hobaugh and Rozzelle should have faired better but had car troubles....

I'm serious about the talent statement.... as I've timed Popp in a V6 Camaro RENTAL CAR on skinny ass little tires laying down 2:19 at Thunderhill with the Crows Nest.... my all out track car has run a best of 2:05 and typically runs 2:10's with traffic on track....

Two years in a row and due to the Evo's road course finishing positions. Evo's were 1 & 2 on the podium in AutoX and Speed Stop, 2 & 3 on the Road Course.
The timing margins were very tight.

AWD is a big advantage. Remember when Audi entered the Trans Am Series and dominated, then were basically regulated out with handicap measures?

My guess is there will be some class alterations made in the future.

The spirit of the competition is awesome, the cars are secondary and that's why the series is a success. It's like an annual reunion of people you want to be around in the pits at this event.

I've poured over the results longer than I'd like to admit. Initially I felt dumbfounded by the lack of ProTouring cars at the top of the list. Even the regulars like Kyle Tucker, Mike Maier, Jake Rozelle, Mary... were well below what I expected them to be. But thinking back, I've kind of ignored the other classes this season only focussing on my own. In reality, we've been out performed all year long and when you stack up all the GTS, GTL, and GT winners from 9 other events it makes a lot more sense. Makes me wish the finals were segmented just as the rest of the season was. In order for a Musclecar to do really well at this event you'd really have to take the musclecar out of it. Those builds, though impressive, are not what Im interested in racing against. Here is the GTV class for those interested:

Year Vehicle Driver Car # Road Rally Design Hot Lap Autocross Speed Stop Score Rank
1966 Ford Mustang Mike Maier 42 25 20.1333 7.98 6.75 12 71.8633 12
1970 Chevrolet Camaro Kyle Tucker 38 25 21.1667 7.77 6.54 9 69.4767 17
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Jake Rozelle 27 25 19.5667 6.54 7.36 7.16 65.6267 22
1972 Chevrolet Nova Billy Utley 17 25 20.8667 4.7 5.93 5.11 61.6067 27
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Mark Stielow 62 25 20.1 7.16 3.67 4.49 60.42 28
1972 Chevrolet Corvette Chris Smith 48 25 20.1667 3.47 1 7.36 56.9967 33
1973 Chevrolet Camaro RS Mary Pozzi 77 25 20.2667 2.03 7.57 1 55.8667 34
1967 Chevrolet Camaro James Shipka 46 25 18.5 5.11 4.49 1.42 54.52 37
1968 Chevrolet Camaro Larry Woo 5 25 19.7 1.62 5.52 1 52.84 40
1969 Dodge Charger Matthew Butts 75 25 22.9 1 1 1 50.9 44
1978 Ford Mustang Brett Behrens 87 25 22.6667 1 1 1 50.6667 46
1968 Chevrolet C10 Jay Weir 89 25 20.5667 1.83 1 2.24 50.6367 47
1967 Chevrolet Camaro Steve Keefer 90 25 22.3333 1 1 1 50.3333 49
1966 Chevrolet corvair JB Granger 28 25 22.1333 1 1 1 50.1333 50
1969 Chevrolet chevelle Nick Weber 45 25 21.9667 1 1 1 49.9667 53
1965 Chevrolet Corvette Greg Thurmond 92 25 17.3 1 1 5.52 49.82 54
1970 Chevrolet Chevelle Tony Grzelakowski 73 25 18.4667 1 1 3.26 48.7267 56
1972 Chevrolet C10R Brandy Phillips 72 25 20.3333 1 1 1 48.3333 59
1966 Ford Mustang Michael Hamrick 84 25 19.8333 1 1 1 47.8333 65
1964 Chevrolet Corvette Jane Thurmond 68 25 19.6333 1 1 1 47.6333 66
1964 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 Kevin Tully 66 25 19.4667 1 1 1 47.4667 67
1973 Chevrolet Camaro Jim Stehlin 33 25 18.4333 1 1.83 1 47.2633 69
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Efrain Diaz 69 25 18.7333 1 1 1 46.7333 70
1966 Datsun 520 Truck Bob Boileau 56 25 15.8333 1 1.21 1 44.0433 80

it was a cool event to finally get to go check out! the amount of super awesome cars was astounding to say the least! I was watching cars in the brake stop challenge and it was night and day to see people with abs. seemed to have a complete advantage on cars that did not have it and way easier on tires! watching the awd. cars on the autocross was mind blowing as well! this combined with launch control looks to be a almost unfair advantage. even though it is avail. in aftermarket form for older cars I think 2 classes should be in order modern and pre 1990 . it is really cool to see the difference that technology can do to improve the speed and control of the cars. just seams like there should be a couple different classes so it is not the one with the most money wins and i agree there quite a difference in driving skills as well i could have all of these advantages and still not beat Danny Popp in a stock rental car! the whole idea of this event is just awesome and i can't wait to see how this event evolves.I want to thank everyone that made this whole event possible without these people an event like this would not even exist!

I agree..I went the first couple of years and enjoyed it but the same cars keep coming back became boring. Then the Golden Ticket cars that are just like seat fillers (some not all) at the Oscars that don't hardly get flogged added to that same feeling.

It's clear he is a winner, but I have to say it would be way more impressive if he showed up in his own C3 and won

I think it may have been Rodger from Ironworks who predicted a number of years back that these "fun" events would go the way of drag-week and eventually would eliminate many of the average-joe's from contention. That's ok if it's the way they wanted it to go, but you do have to wonder if the RTTx casual format will be missed by participants.

disclaimer: I don't know crap cause my car hasn't run in 5 years, so there's that...

Gotcha. Saw three time winner on FB. Was thinking it was consecutive.

From a participants point of view if you really just want to hang with buddies and bench race more than thrash on your car the old Run to the Coast is hard to beat. It might not be fair to compare those earlier RTTC events to the Optima events of 2015 but the Optimia events from my perspective were about 10x as fun as the RTTC events. Optima is way more organized and efficient in conducting their events which translates into a lot more seat time, which at the end of the day is what I'm personally paying for. I love the mix of cars at the Optima USCA (as opposed to invitational) events and there are a great group of people that makes the events special. But at the end of the day there is no way in hell I'd continue to fork over $500 if I didn't get a lot of seat time as that is the funnest part :)

I think I said that a few years ago as well. It will always happen. Those of us who sell products and need to prove them are in a hard position. You need to go, you need to do something, but like us, is finishing 47 good or bad?

There were some 40 odd cars behind us, we did not bring a race car and I guess shame on us. But even the 5th gen DSE race car only finished 15th. and Kyle finished 17th
6 of the top 10 were import race cars.
The event is fun and good to see where you actually stack up against some of the fastest cars out there.
When a guy like Mark builds Hellfire and can't get in the top 10, I would say there is little hope a muscle car will ever win the event again.

I agree that it might be cool to have a Muscle Car class. and then at least it would be more reprehensive of what WE LIKE but it also is not all about US

It is called the ULTIMATE Street car and I think the only thing that has gotten away is the "STREET" part of it. An Evo with a sequential 6 speed and FiA race seat, fire system and full cage is not a STREET CAR. but knowing that don't bring a knife to a gun fight and expect to win.
I think its funny that in 2010 my Nova finished 5th over all, then we bring a C10 this year which is even better and finish 47th.
it is all good competition for sure great people, good friends, and all good.

Jimi and crew have done a great job promoting the series and Optima has seen the benefit of it and continues to spend the money on it, with out those 2 components there is NOTHING.

Nuff said!

Well said Blake:thumbsup: As long as the GTV class exists I'd like to see the manufactures showing up and competing. Waaay cooler to see the products getting hammered on then sitting on a shelf!

Defining "street car" is going to be the issue. I remember pitting next to Filip with CorteX in 2011. That car had people crying fowl back then....what's next? Tube chassis, carbon/fiberglass bodied race cars with plates.....can't wait!:lol:

It's hard to appreciate how good guys like Popp and Rozelle are until you watch them in person. I can run advanced class without embarrassing myself, but I can't imagine ever being able to wheel a car like that.

Watching the speed stop the first day, everybody is kind of tiptoeing up to the limit, improving by half a second or so every run. Then Popp comes out on his first run, comes shrieking off the corner in a barely controlled full-on drift, jams it into the box and puts down a time less than half a second from the best all day. I repeat, on his first run. It was awesome to watch.

that's the plan :idea:

Yep, you're right on Blake.

To Chad's point, it probably doesn't matter to most people where they place, as long as the car performs up to their expectations and they get wheel time.

It really is true that if Mark can't get a Top 10, the rest of the classics don't stand a chance.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion. As always, its a tough balancing act to make the events fun, relevant to the industry, a good investment for sponsors, and compelling for spectators. We do our absolute best to manage all of these into something that works for most. We know it's not going to appeal to everyone, but we truly feel we have elevated this hobby into something that has been beneficial to a lot of participants and businesses.

We also feel that for the $500 entry fee, to get the amount of seat time we provide on some of the best and well known tracks around the country is a great value.

Last year, we added a GTV class to make sure that we kept the vintage cars relevant and had a place for them. This series and event was built on the passion and enthusiasm of pro-touring car owners, and we don't want to see them excluded or come out with nothing to compete for. With that in mind, we are considering restructuring the points for 2016 to better recognize real street cars and this will also serve to help the GTV participants have a fighting chance to score well.

The "real street car" is a difficult thing to define. It used to be licensed for the street. We all know now that it doesn't really take much to get a plate and registration - but please don't lay that at the feet of the import car owners. There are plenty of GTV owners that stretch that definition as well. Race car themed is the definition of pro-touring - where does it end and what's acceptable vs. not acceptable?

The OUSCI and USCA series is completely non-denominational, we like all performance street cars. It's inevitable that some are going to outperform others. We don't dictate what kind of car that each participant decides to run - we just provide the playground for all of them to play together. Remember, right from the beginning, our message has always been about safety, fun, education and then competition. We reward the winners with a 10" trophy and some points. No money, no driving contracts, no move to a competitive series, just a trophy. The competition is driven by the participants, not the series.

We provide lots of seat time for a very reasonable price on some of the best tracks around the country. There are a few that take advantage of the rules, and then we tweak them, then there are a few more that take advantage of those - it's a never ending cycle. Don't be angry at the series or series sponsors; maybe have a chat with those that play in the gray area and let them know your thoughts. We will continue to put out the effort to bring you an affordable and fun series of events that are well organized and relevant to our industry. Thanks again for the feedback.

2015 OUSCI stats:

28 - GTV cars - 33% of the field
27 - GT American made (Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Dodge) - 32% of the field
55 American made and GTV cars - 65.4% of the field
29 - Import cars (Mitsubishi, Porsche, Lotus, BMW, Subaru, Lamborghini) - 34% of the field

ALL GREAT points, and I doubt any of the participants are complaining I certainly was NOT. We beat our expectations (top 50) knowing that was realistic, the event was well run for sure, smooth well organized on time to the schedule.
From a spectators POV there were limited spots to watch the road course from and that could be improved.
:king:

Thanks Blake - agreed, there is limited viewing on the road course, this is an issue that every road course in the country struggles with and is the sole reason that NASCAR oval races rate so much higher than both Formula 1 and Indy Car road course races.

We are already working with LVMS to improve spectator viewing for 2016.

I HEAR YA!!! Nature of the event.

The last 2 years we have done a TON of work on the car all year long to get the car this fast. A lot of people don't know how many hours we have in the car. I don't even want to think about it.

Last year Brandon would have won, but had engine trouble on the road course. This year Danny's Vette was set on kill.

But then again Danny is a GREAT driver

I missed the very first OUSCI, but I went to all the other ones, even volunteered couple times.
Last year was the year where I hung out in Greg's trailer more than I did watching. It just doesn't have the Lat-G appeal anymore.
I'd much rather see Mark tearing up the course in his latest first gen Camaro, than Danny tearing it up in a C5. I can watch C5's, Evo's, 5th Gen Camaro's, Mustangs, on any given weekend at the local track day.

Where are all the C5, 5th gen Camaro, Evo, Porsche, Subaru, performance parts sponsors for these events. If that's the direction this event is heading in, then why would some of these sponsors stay, when the cars they cater to are at the bottom of the list.

Was there so much time in between laps in past years? We thought in the past a competitor could get all their ss or autox laps in faster. Keeping the car and tires warm, getting right back out there. We felt there was a lot more waiting between laps this time. Are we wrong about that?

Id also be curious if drivers had trouble with cold tires, it was a bit chilly.

I've been to a couple of the USCA events, both as worker and driver, and have to agree that they are exceptionally well-run, which is purely the result of the passion (a word I genuinely hate) we all have for the hobby (avoiding the term "sport"--we all have mirrors here). Many of us have just as much fun watching and hanging as we do driving (for far fewer dollars, might I add).

Chad made the exceptional point here (of two): We drive in these events (most of us) to have as much legal fun as possible with crazily capable cars. The USCA events give us the course/track time to literally beat our cars to death. Other events that involve autocross, not so much, unless it's a weird day. USCA gives decent value for those really trying to squeeze the most from their contraptions.

On the topic of the Evo (and other modern cars of its ilk), I remember Mike Maier consistently beating them a couple of years ago. They've chosen to up their game a bit more than Mike has this year . . . When I saw full-on tractor-trailers (not talking Greg Weld rolling out the barbecue here) delivering loads of fully-prepped, non-street race cars at Thunderhill earlier this year, I could see very well (or not, since I didn't really care) that something had changed (or didn't). What-evs. I wasn't likely to ever actually compete (like most of us here) . . . but I will also never pay to see a new Camaro or Mustang lap a track.

I just want to see the Dusold Camaro in person--that thing is ridiculously awesome (and only a Camaro by suggestion/sheet metal--look closely). More importantly, I get the sense that a lot of people pass it right by (on foot, not in a driving sense) . . . this inspires my own idiotic and stagnated build. :bur2:

Very well put..... and I think everyone here fully understands the issues. To have great events - you have to have great sponsors.... These events have to cost a small fortune to put on. They MUST be "inclusive".... the car hobby is as diverse as we all are personally. "We" (Pro Touring) are just a small subset of that hobby. "We" just like to root for what draws US to this stuff... The import guys probably don't give two hoots to watch some "old" Camaro run around...

The fact that you are willing to hear (read) what's being "thought" and talked about... and seem open and willing to look at changes (maybe) going forward says one hell of a lot to me. I have no idea what that would look like - there are so many variables!

It would, however, be fun to be able to see a split along "old and new" -- where some recognition is given to those that have basically hand built their cars. Not that the imports and newer cars haven't been, or that they have any less effort put into them..... but there ARE differences which should be recognized.

The first thing I'd ditch is the design points.... let that be a separate trophy -- but not included in the part that we all want to see --- how well the cars and drivers perform. If we wanted looks we'd go to a car show. It's just way too subjective and personal. Times/data speak for themselves and are indisputable.

YES! From what I've seen online its a wicked lil track star....speaking of, doesn't Ron Sutton offer a tube frame street legal something er other?

I'll be at T-Hill in February to take it all in again...and see if we can better our times from this year. Looking forward to the new Unlimited class (USCA, think about it!)
:thumbsup:

Where is info on the Feb Thunderhill event ?