Air ride Or Mini tub poll (Done deal....no more votes)
 

Mini tub move springs in.........

Air bar....and air ride all around...

4 link and Mini tub....

Mini tub move springs in and air ride.....


Gotta do something.......

-
Thanks, Paul

three link, mini tub, coilovers

I dont think they make a 3 link for my car.....

-Paul

Well...... not yet, would be the correct answer. Maybe Mark (LateralDynamics) is up for doing another first ??

air ride is so overrated
it makes for a stiff ride with not much in the way of shock absorbtion.
remember the old hijacker airshocks?

Given the fact that you're building a pro-touring car, with the limited choices given, I say mini-tub and relocated leaves.

I doubt you will get many air bag fans here. I would build a triangulated 4 link backhafl. Or even get one fron Morrison already built. But then you got to look at front options, then all of a sudden you have a full chassis under it.

Well my car is all done......I just want more tire under the back......


-Paul

I have never used air ride before and .....I guess I wont....lol

-Paul

Good answer!!

I say mini-tub & relocate the leafs...after all you just want more tire right? Not to redo the whole suspension.

If you really want to build a new rear suspenion (not a kit) for your car, we need to go have a few drinks and talk about it! It's not as fun as it sounds...trust me it's a ton of work!! :yes:

It's ok for the street, but not for the track. No matter how much Air Ride sells eveyone on how good it is for the track, it's not. I have driven one on the track, and its below par. Light street perfomance driving, and stuff like that, it's fine, but not for the track. It does have good street manners though.

Thanks guys I feel better about this now......


-Paul

chevy2boy333 you never did show me a pic of your tire and rim from behind under your car. also if your cars done can you post some pics? i was curious as to what a 17x7 looks like from behind. i want all four wheels to be the same, but if i dont get traction well ill move up to 17x8s. i dont want the rear wheels to be alot wider then the front wheels. kinda going for a 60s Grand Touring car meets modern day engine and suspension look. :_paranoid

Wrong....My car has air ride, with shockwaves in the front, and the ride quality is great....you just need to have the right components. The fact that you are comparing contemporary air ride systems to airshocks of the 70's tells me that you probably haven't had much experience with a good system.

Preach on brother.

I think Air ride is a fine system but for the money come on. You can by the best stuff thats out there for the same and have all the quality and ride that you want. PHR did the air ride on a 2nd gen camaro and man was that thing expensive. The rear alone in suspension was somewhere around $2000 without the air tank and controls.

Its going to the inteior shop in mid Aug...... I HAVE to give you guys something to look forward to.......

-Paul

Ive heard both sides of it....Some people say it dosent ride good and some people say it does.......

Also for what im doing with this car .....its not going to be ran on the track...I didnt build this one for that .....Its mostly going to see the bigger shows......

-Paul

It does ride very good, (the new stuff) and if that is what you are after then it would be fine.

air ride can work great, the problem is that most set-ups run either too big of bag, too small of bag, wrong shocks, wrong pressure....or E: ALL OF THE ABOVE.

a proper designed air system can be taylored to YOUR specific needs, at the push of a button and some fine tuning of shock adjustments...you can have a ride just like YOU like it, i do agree with the STREET car comments, meaning it does handle "ok", great for the street...not the track.

shockwaves have enough choices that getting the right size "bag" is as simple as a tech line away(actual corner weights will help), and with single/double adjustments available, the shock tuning is right there waiting.

i think for a cruiser street car, air ride is the ONLY way to go, rides great, looks cool parked, and has a comfortable cruising altitude for the nations less that perfect roadways.

i say ditch the leafs, mini tubs, 4 bar and shockwaves...IF its a cruiser....if its a track whore...bring it to my house and i will "trade" ya an A-body :unibrow:

I've been considering the Air Ride stuff too for my Barracuda but have heard alot of concerns over safety with an air bag system on the street.... the big issue that concerns me is what happens if you loose pressure in even one bag while driving the car ??? One line melting or fitting coming loose etc and the car hits the ground at 65 MPH. What happens if you have a malfunction with the system and the car is on the ground already ?? How the hell do you get a jack etc under it to even get it up in the air ???

The look and flexability is wicked, but I'm having serious concerns about safety with my car on air bags

Most people on this site know my opinion on Airbags so I won't elaborate. I agree with race rodzs assesment but, honestly Paul, you know that there will be that time that you get a chance to really put your foot into it. Don't you want the suspension to be there for it? Especially after all the work that you've already done to the car? I think you should consider either a 3 link/Watts setup(Definitely talk to Mark Magers on this one since, in my humble opinion, I think he has the best one out there right now! Although.......Art Morrisons got a pretty good one to!) or go the extra mile and commit to an IRS! I have a feeling that if your going to be doing big shows your going to want something that stands apart from the rest and I feel that an IRS(That is correctly engineered!) will do that along with giving you many miles of well mannered driving pleasure! It will definitely require some fab work so seriously consider it especially since you already finished the car and now you have to go back in and tear it up again! :eek: :wow: :lol:

Same thing that i am concered about.....


-PAul

Do you have any links to where i could find this stuff....

I always question a statement that starts with "I have heard..."

What happens if you break a ball joint at 65mph?, or bust a leaf spring? or hit a pothole with big rims?, or blow a tire out? or an oil line feeding a turbo melts and blows oil all over the exhaust and tires? or if your new wheel studs let go in a turn at 100+? or a brake line bursts? or you throw a rod out of the side of your block? etc etc....You get the point. There are countless theoretical situations you can site for any modification to your car....You should be concerned about using an aftermarket wiring set-up because it may short out and catch fire...see what I mean. By this logic, you should not be driving anything modified, just a straight up OEM factory engineered piece...I might suggest a nice Saturn Sedan. Like ANY modification, if done properly, airbags are extremely durable, and just as safe as any other suspension system out there....

:captain:

I see what you are saying......One thing I allways think about is 2 years ago at columbus after the show my dad and i were riding back to the hotel in his nova and the car sat so low and didnt have air ride......we hit a low spot in it the road and put a hole in the oil pan.....Wouldnt it have be nice to have air ride then.....

-Paul

I love the stance on this car...Its mini tubed and air ride.....

Paul,
For the look and function you are going for, I think Air ride is the way to go. The car will most likely never see a track, and it will look killer all laid at a show. Like BAD6SPD said, if installed correctly you shouldn't worry about blowing a bag.

Bad6spd.... I understand your point but your other "scenarios" are alittle different... most of them would occur if you were pushing/punishing the car hard and then it wouldnt be unexpected. If you beat on stuff, it may break. I'm not talking about "popping" a bag, I'm talking about something as simple as an air fitting coming loose or one of the many hoses you have to run leaking. Those things could easily happen without the driver beating on the car. The hoses are the "weak link" that I'm concerned about most.. How easy would it be to accidently have one chaff a hole or melt or catch on some debris you hit on the road ?? A small air leak and your car could be on the ground while driving at any speed

You could compare it to having an oil line come loose, but if that occurs the most likely thing is you make a huge mess and the motor goes bye bye.... an air line coming loose and the car hits the ground....

Yes, anything can happen and no matter how well something is engineered, there is always the risk of a failure that can result in serious life threatening issues. My point was just to mention some of the concerns that I had been thinking about....

I like the Air Ride stuff and I've been SERIOUSLY considering it, so dont think I'm in the "air bag bashing" camp. Its not that at all.

if your worried about melting a line, or rubbing through a line, then i say hardlines are the way to go for your set-up.

normally when i set up a customer air ride system, i explain that the car must always be able to roll, steer, and stop. that way IF something does go wrong, you atleast have "some" control in getting the vehicle safely to the side of the road. as for blowing a bag, it wont happen, unless they are installed very wrong, or you run waaaaaaaaaay too much pressure, like double...almost triple what a standard air ride compressor will put out.

now i have a dually that lays the rockers flat on the ground,(do as i say not as i act kinda deal) IF it ever has a problem, yes, i am putting myself and everybody else on the road in danger(just like if a balljoint breaks, or a wheel falls off), but i have 80,000+ miles on it, and have never had ANY problems with it. routine maintance is key, making sure all the parts are in good working condition, replacing air lines just "cuz"...an of coarse this system was designed and set-up for years of trouble free use.

you can "what-if" anything to death, some of the concerns are legit, and there are solutions and options to address the concerns.

Is there a way to set it up so that the car isnt completely on the ground when all the pressure is out of the bags ? How do you set it up so that the car can roll, steer and brake IF something happens ?

I'm not that familiar with some of the details. I want to be able to have the car sit real low when I want, but I dont need the frame on the ground etc.

Yea i think some people are overthinking the air-ride thing. If u always think about the worst stuff that can happen ur overthinking. I have had 3 cars with 3 different setups never once had any problem. On the other hand i do know a dude that had a wheel fall off his truck going 55 an he was fine. I also had a 30 series tire blow out on me on the xway at 120 and again im still here so imo if ur gunna get hurt it will happen reguardless. Just the way it goes sometimes....

it takes time
 

A few people have mentioned that you would likely find few air suspension fans here. I would like to add only one word to that: YET.
As we continue to demonstrate the performance benefits through track days, autocross events, and magazine testing data comparisons we continue to make believers out of any who pay attention. Obviously no product is for everyone and air suspension is no exception, but in time it will become as accepted in a true performance application as electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, and electronically controlled overdrive tranmissions. Look for us at the Year One Experience, the Goodguys autocross events, the Musclerides.com autocross event in Pigeon Forge in September, our own Street Challenge track day in September, and the Hot Rod Magazine Open Track Smackdown in October. I am not going to claim that an air suspension car will win any of these events [yet], but at this point, all we have to do is not suck. After we don't suck anymore we can move on to finishing well, and then maybe on to winning! At the VERY worst we will have one hell of a good time trying to prove our merit!
At any rate...you guys don't need me to shove air suspension down your throat...only to suggest where to look for relevant information in order to make an educated decision that is right for YOUR car. Stay tuned...

Don't sweat it Ned, I didn't mean for that to come off combative...I guess I would just say, that with my real world experience with bags, I have found them to be safe and reliable....If you have concerns, that is completely understandable.....just do the research and make a decision that is right for you, and makes you feel comfortable. :thumbsup: :captain:

most vehicles wont lay flat on the ground by simply installing bags or shockwaves, usually takes serious modification to get a car/truck to lay out....my dually has a monster notch, drop spindles, stepped arms, and a front frame Z just to get the frame on the ground...then its bodydropped(channeled) so the rockers are as low as the frame.

but you can install bumpstops as a limiting factor to keep the car say 1" off the ground.... the alignment goes to crap when the air is gone....but atleast you still have control, as opposed to just hanging on and waiting for the ride to be over(again....this is just a "what if"...worst case kinda deal)

You have a long way to go to prove this. I have driven 1 properly built air ride car on a track and it was acceptable as a performance upgrade to anything out nowadays. If this was the case, then why don't professional race teams use it. Is the product good for the street, yes. Is it good for light duty autocrossing, a little, but in no way in it's present form, remotely close to anything out there for after market performance suspensions.

Bret is the owner of air ride......


-Paul

That explains it.

baby steps...
 

First...yes, I own Air Ride Technologies. As I have said on other forums, not trying to hide my motives, just trying to avoid the shameless self promotion.
Second...I agree completely that we have a long way to go to prove the merits of a properly designed and tuned air suspension, especially since the path is littered with many components and installers whose definition of performance is a bit different that most of us on this forum.
The only limitations of an air suspension that I have found so far are the limits of our ability to develop new components and applications fast enough. Only so many hours in the day. As with any product or technology, new or not, continuing refinement and development is the key to making progress. Winning racers rarely find 50 horsepower at one time...they find it in 3 hp increments. I think that is kind of where we are at right now. The easy fiields have been plowed...reliability, durability, model applications, basic design parameters, etc, have all been well documented. Now we are refining electronic ride height systems, multistage shock adjustability, airspring piston profiles, etc.
Why don't racers use air suspension? Well, some do. There will be several at Bonneville next month...including the editor of Hotrod Magazine in a 2nd gen Camaro, Trepaniers newest creation, a 68 Barracuda with a 1300hp 4 cyl, and a flatehead powered streamliner. We have worked with a couple of NASCAR teams [no, I can't say who] and are headfirst into a major development program for a miliary application. We ahve also worked with a number of drag racers who are using the ShockWaves as a very useful traction tuning tool...as well as being handy for loading the car in the trailer:). The real reason most racers don't use ANY adjustable suspension is simply because it is against the rules in many sanctioning bodies. At that point most teams won't waste any resources to persue a technology that they won't be allowed to use anyhow.
I am seriously encouraged by the debate on these forums...it inspires new product development and increased education and training for our customers. In other words...it gets me off my dead ass. Personally, I hope threads like this last forever!
BTW...I don't get the chance to lurk on these forums as much as I would like, so don't take a non-response as anything negative...I'm just off doing other stuff.