Speedtech's new 3rd Gen Camaro suspension
 

Hey everyone, more great news! This 91 Camaro RS followed us home a couple months ago...

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...pswl8friqx.jpg

These cars have a great out of the box performance handling platform, but since we like to play so much, can't leave well enough alone and want to make everything better, we've decided that adding 3rd gen Camaro suspension to our line up was in order. We're anxious to see more of them competing in CAM and the big Pro Touring events, and we've got 3 steps on the R&D board to get things rolling.

Step one is to develop a bolt in performance suspension system including lower front control arms, a better and adjustable front strut, Articulink rear trailing arms, rear coilover conversion, and upgrade it to our better Torque Arm. We're not reinventing the wheel here, just making it much better. Some of these parts are currently already in pre production.

Step 2 is to develop an LS/T56 swap kit. Our RS sports a V6 with a blown head gasket, so naturally it will likely get a 525+ hp LS3 crate engine backed by a T56 Magnum to take it's place.

Step 3 is the real good stuff! For those that want to play with the big boys we'll be developing a new ExtReme front suspension clip that will eliminate the struts and use the same all new suspension found on our new ExtReme 1st and 2nd gen Camaro subframes! This is the most forward thinking and advanced geometry and capabilities available, better than any other Pro Touring suspension currently on the market. Part of the parameters for all ExtReme suspensions is to have a super low ride height, more available suspension travel, fit 315s under the fenders while maintaining 30+ degrees of steering angle, and have geometry that maximizes tire contact on all wheels while cornering.

I found this pic of a nice slammed IROC on the internet. Imagine this stance with 315s tucked underneath all around and a suspension that sticks like a full bore race car. Now this is gonna be cool!

We're pretty excited about this one, tell us what you think!

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/...psjfrqstqa.jpg

I'm so ready to have another 3rd gen.

As I suddenly seem to have some of these around this house I will be watching your development program with interest.

I had an '84 Trans Am for 19 years, and I miss that car. It would be fun to have another one day, and having a good suspension system available to improve handling and fit wide wheels would be great. I wouldn't prioritize slamming it per se (with just a 1" drop on my car I had enough trouble with speed bumps and curbs) I'd focus on handling like it's on rails with big meats and not compromise the steering.

Hey Guys & Gals,

Just chiming in to let everyone know this new 3rd gen F-Body clip has the same optimum geometry & set-up I designed for all of the Speedtech front clips & full chassis. Although each front suspension was optimized for the application, this one is very similar to the 1st & 2nd gen clips.


Video for RSRT Designed Speedtech eXtreme Subframes & Chassis





To watch this In-Depth Video on YouTube ... Click HERE.

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New Speedtech eXtreme Front Subframe & Suspension Package
New Cutting Edge Design Includes:

• Ron Sutton Race Technology geometry built-in.
• Strong Box type laser cut and jig welded construction - reduced weight over factory subframe.
• Special subframe width & shape allowing 315 front tires.
• Next-Gen ATS 7075 Forged Aluminum Spindles.
• High-Ackerman steering arms for ATS spindles.
• C7 heavy duty bearings & hubs.
• Speedtech high clearance upper & lower tubular control arms
• Upper control arms feature additional caster adjustability.
• Control arms powder coated gloss black and fully assembled with Delrin bushings.
• 3-piece Speedway Engineering sway bar – Choice of rates from 400# to 1300#
• Sweet racing DUAL POWER rack & pinion steering.
• Accepts LSX engines with Speedtech fabricated oil pan and motor mounts.
• Adjustable engine frame stands allows 3/4" fore & aft range.
• Fully adjustable rear cross member fits all GM transmissions as well as T-56 and TKO.
• Factory alignment holes offer ease of aligning frame to body and bumpers.
• Mounting hardware, instructions, and custom alignment specs.
• Comes bare. Powder coat options available.
• Built-in tow/tie down hooks eliminate strapping around painted frames.
• Ridetech single adjustable coil-over shocks, including delrin thrust washers & adjusting wrench.
• Hypercoil coil-over springs – Wide choice of rates.

Available as Bolt-In Clips for:
67-69 GM F-Bodies Camaros & Firebirds
70-81 GM F-Bodies Camaros & Firebirds/Trans Ams
68-74 GM X-Bodies Novas, Venturas, Skylark & other GM X-Body Cars
and now ... 82-92 3rd gen F-Bodies: Camaros & Firebirds

OPTIONS:
• Powder Coat Subframe – Flat Black
• Powder Coat Subframe – Semi-Gloss Black
• Powder Coat Subframe – Gloss Black
• Powder Coat Subframe – Gun Metal Grey
• Powder Coat Subframe – Silver
• Billet Aluminum Body Mount Set
• Engine Bay Round Tube Chassis Down Bar Supports
• Double Joint Steering Shaft Kit
• LSx Engine Adapter Plates
• Speedtech 1 7/8" LSx Headers, Mill Finish
• Speedtech LSx 1 7/8" Headers, Show Polished Finish
• Ron Sutton Tailored Suspension Tech Service #40STP
• Ron Sutton Tailored Brake Tech Service #29
• Ron Sutton Secret Sauce Digressive Track-Star Valving added to Ridetech Single Adj Shocks
• Ridetech Triple Adj Shocks w/Digressive Track-Star Valving
• JRI Shocks w/Digressive Track-Star Valving in Single, double or triple adjustable



For more information ... OR To Place Your Order ... Contact Ron Sutton Race Technology:
Phone: (916) 834-8051
Email: [email protected]
Address: 11374 Amalgam Way, Suite K, Gold River, CA 95670
Website: www.RonSuttonRaceTechnology.com

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Thanks Ron - we can chat more (I owe you a call as it is).

The '89 has been evolving well but the last weekend out was a tad cold and wet:

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...ps452icghp.jpg

This should be a fun week though, I sourced a hood, fenders, and quarter panels from an IROC series car - they should finally be here this week (along with a new set of Toyo RR tires).

Suspension is about "maxed" out for the "stock" design so I am always looking at new options.

Thanks for chiming in Ron!

That's a pretty sweet sleeper there Tuske! I think another should definitely be on the build list!

Looks like fun James! "Suspension is about "maxed" out for the "stock" design so I am always looking at new options." We anticipate being able to help with that!

I'm all in. I keep going back and forth on selling mine, but maybe with the right set of parts I would be willing to hang onto it.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/q...204554_613.jpg

I love mine but most of my suspension work has been done for a while. Im usually top 5 in raw times at the local autocrosses so I feel like the car works really well.

1. Ground clearance with big exhaust is a pain on these cars. Thats because of the transmission crossmember. I have an old Skulte piece that has clearance for duals, but he doesnt make them anymore. Until Holley's new LS swap crossmember, there isnt much available (I think Hawks has some flimsy looking piece) in terms of off the shelf crossmembers with decent dual exhaust clearance. Check out Holley's piece and see if you guys can do something like that. It's a niche in the market that i think gets ignored. Everyone makes these huge square tube crossmembers that hang WAAAAY too low. Obviously you'd need different ones for a T56 or a T5 or a 700r4 vs a LS 4l60e, but I just feel lik ethat's something all the normal performance parts fabricators totally ignore.

2. And my pet issue, it'd be cool to have a crossmember like that with a torque arm mount packaged on it. Or perhaps some sort of standalone torque arm crossmember that isnt super short. I avoid the super short ones for the handling stuff... I'd rather it not get upset on front-rear weight transfers. Im not sure if your crossmember has a torque arm mount or not, yet.

There are some obscure but very effective suspension modifications that tweak the roll centers and roll axis that have enormous benefits in car stability. I woudlnt call it maxed out. I'd call it pretty flawed, actually, but it has a lot of potential. Note that the fourth gens with their SLA front suspension dont have major transition stability problems even though they have the same rear suspension.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...psqtpgchgb.jpg

Im eagerly awaiting to see how much of this you guys can implement. There have been a lot of us waiting for a decent fast ratio, decent turn radius power rack setup for these cars! Not sure if a full front subframe is really a possibility given how these cars are put together...

Thanks for the insight Infernal V. All that is great feedback and things we can think about. We just recently launched a new frame connector/ lateral cross brace/ torque arm front mount for the 1st gen cars. Something like this will be on the list of can we implement it for the 3rd gens too. Currently we use a bolt in crossmember for our Torque arm front mounts. We also typically use an adjustable trans crossmember for different trans opttions. We're all about low stance and lots of ground clearance so we'll pay attention to your comments as we get into the design. Thanks again!

Given how these cars are currently valued, I'd do the same. They will pick up, but it's not quite their time to shine yet. The market for something that extensive probably hasnt truly materialized yet.

Yep. With this one we're pushing to get ahead of the game and perhaps be instrumental in that rise in popularity for these cars. Imagine being $10K + ahead of the game by buying a decent $1000-$1500 platform to start with rather than $10K for a beat builder. If performance handling in a decent looking car is more of the end goal than sporting a 69 Camaro, this should be a hot market.

2 big things many 3rd gen fbody owners would like:

a choice of spindles.

ability to add a power rack and pinion.

there are quite a few who want spindles and rack and pinion. :) there have been various companies that have cast new spindles and fabricated them and ultimately they all disappeared.

Are you referring to the Strut spindles?

yep.

Would very much like a 1.5-2" drop and modification to allow easier installation of a rack and pinion

I actually thought about seeing if there was a way to adapt the AFX spindle to the strut mount but do not think it is possible as the AFX spindle was not designed to carry the load on the top side ball joint, thinking most would want to move to a coil over set up. so that is a no go. even trying to figure an upper mount to the strut and require a coil spring in the LCA will nt really work as there is not enough material on the top side to machine mounting bolt holes into it.
so back to the drawing board.
beside the strut just limits the tire size too much.

It almost looks like they are similar-ish looking designs that could have tooling adapted to provide the correct mounting point for the strut (yea, I know, thats actually easier and cheaper said than done). I know you basically have things right there in front of you but:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8476/8...331ff2af_h.jpg
http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...es/prd_279.jpg


Problem with coil over setups is that the strut towers on thridgens are not meant to carry the load of springs. They require a bit of bracing and such so the metal doesnt tear. I'm sticking with stock style springs in either case, many do.

The steering arm would have to be a major design point. The stock one isnt in the best position.

Anyways, just my humble analysis :shrugs:

Thanks for the input. We're well under way with our 55-57 Chevy chassis system, next is early 64-67 Chevelle and then the 3rd gen. I'll keep everyone posted as we get closer.

3rd gen Camaros were out of fashion for so long, the dreaded mullet factor.
But now they are getting pretty hot ! I remember when there was that Nelson Engine Racing twin turbo totally sano 3rd gen that was being shown around in fact it was in Hot Rod. I heard it never actually lived up to its potential (build issues) but I remember seeing it and thinking for the first time "wow, those cars can look really cool actually !"

As you say they are actually really good platforms even using stock improvements. With a Ron Sutton setup they'll be off the hook !

Such a cheap starting platform too.

And a huge step up in aero from 1st and 2nd gen Camaros or any muscle car.

I would liek to clarify something.. the spindle I ws speaking of wasnt like the santhuffs. they were a cast version like the stockers but were dropped spindles. a dropped front with a shorter steering pivot would be awesome. possibly with the ability to use modern hubs..

I like your thinking!

Got excited for a minute and thought we'd see something new here.

So Ron, this was announced a little pre-maturely?

Good News!
I have 2" drop spindles - roadrace version from RaceCraft. They are no longer offered. Very happy to have them. Here are some pics.
They are paired with: Spohn tubular adj a-arms and strut mounts, alum hubs, 2 pc 13" rotors & FSL 6pot calipers inside stock wheels!, and swivel cup weight jacks (bolt thru frame rail).

These limit me to 8" wheel. I've always felt that 275 is perfect for street (ruts) - not that 300+ is bad. My thought was a 245 with better RC is equal/competitive to a 275 with worse RC and scrub radius.

Some more thinkin' to do.

I think this thread should be closed until it contains updates from Ron or Speedtech... my hopes keep jumping and the falling hard! (Just a joke)

Then again, the longer they take the more time I have to get the funds....

That spindle does provide a decent start point. The biggest improvement that can be made I can see is moving/shortening the steering arm.

I would love to see X-Rays of those welds. After seeing the failure on the non-road race version on TGO (yea, I know, he didnt take heed to the warning on their website) I have suspicions. I feel like a fabricated spindle like that should be welded to the same strict standards that are used for AWS D1.1 3G and 4G tests or something similar to it.

You may be right. we had planned on starting this year but jsut too many other things to contend with first.

Sorry to get you all excited.

I've had both the drag and roadrace versions in-hand. I'm confident with the beefier roadrace version! Yeah, the other guy road raced the drag version, and refused the upgrade when it was offered to him (post failure). I keep it bare to make it easier to inspect. RaceCraft put their best guy on these. I feel fortunate to have them.

I do wonder about aftermarket tie rod ends that might allow me to fit them inside an 18" barrel...hmmm....But I do prefer 17's and some sidewall at Road America. Technology improves and offers alternatives.

By altering the steering arm, you mess with the angle of the tie rods. Then you could alter the drag link to compensate, but.....then I'd get lost and over my head. Here is a crude drawing of the front steer.

This proposed set-up is a clean sheet design and looks promising! I'll look-on with envy, but it's beyond my finances.

I do tour with my car - want to drive it in all the lower 48 states. I have MS & LA (Nawlins trip), and a New England trip (everything North of Yankee stadium) left. Delaware was difficult to incorporate, but I did it. I don't think 315's will be practical for touring. Though this design will keep them flat.

For now, I try to keep scrub close to zero by 8" wheels, SAI mods, and use moderate camber. The drop spindles and lower PHB help the roll axis inclination, also. And, I continually look for ways to be able to go wider, but I drive my car alot - 240k and counting (all mine, original owner). I'm lucky to see one HPDE a year. These cars are fun to drive, and with low unsprung weight and an LS2, it has exceeded my expectations.

shorter/repositioned steering arm would mean more affordable rack and pinion options. that would be the reason for an option for the redesigned arm for me.

Sounds like you made your bird a hell of a GT car.

Someone over on FRRAX has the stock spindle blueprint:

We've a got a pretty well handling one as a sort of sponsored shop project.

Blake and Ben:
These cars would need body modification to fit the 315s in the back. The tubs need some alteration. We have 275s all the way around, no rubs on a factory body. Actually, they may need modification in the front, too. The wheel wells may not be wide enough to allow a 315 to sweep. I know we're dangerously close to rubbing the body kit wit our 275s.

Also, we dropped an LS and t56 into this car. We used the 4th gen Camaro rear end and torque arm along with the swap. Bolts on. The trans mount is fabbed, engine mounts are from Hawks Third Gen.

Exhaust clearance is a big issue on these cars. There's not room to go duals over the top if you have the panhard bar in place. We went with a Fays2 Watts link and elected to dump the exhaust before the rear end. In factory form, they have a weird pocket under the passenger front floorboard where the catalytic converter lived.
After that, there's no reliefs in the floor to fit exhaust. Adding a torque arm further cramped our room.

But just so you know, a 4th gen tank will drop in place of the third gen unit and you can sorta reuse most of the fuel lines as they are. Makes that bit a no brainer. Also, the pedals from a 4th gen will slide in place of the third gen stuff.. so you can use the stock clutch master.

Great info, thanks!

Hooker makes an over the axle true dual system for 3rd gen now.

Hey all you 3rd gen guys, the time has arrived to resurrect this thread! After getting a bunch of other projects finished up and launching a new ExtReme chassis for 64-67 Chevelles, '60-66 C10s, and '53-56 Ford F100's we're ready to get back to the mullet racer '91 Camaro platform. As has been said this is a great car to begin with, they're out there to be had at still reasonable prices, they come with a liot of attached memories as they were prowling the streets when many of us were at a great time of our lives, and hey, they really aren't bad looking when you get rid of the overly fat protruding rear tires and stick on auto parts store bling aisle specials.

With that in mind we're heading forward to completely redesigning the platform, adapting our proven to be the best overall design in Pro-Touring suspension into the 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird platform. You'll see the same layout found in previous ExtReme platforms of upper and lower control arms with all that leading edge geometry, and at this point we're after 315 tires up front. Again we're proposing this won't be just replacement parts that improve over factory performance a little, we're after the best street suspension upgrade on the market. Check out the pics to get the thread started and stay tuned as it all unfolds!

https://i.imgur.com/LcHejTp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JOfiVx5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jrgTaKj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rfyXkIH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wlRkQat.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bpgpVtz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vXNdtfW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fmZ9p9l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/J0IJvju.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HwNihSv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2nsg1VE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gLOaDdu.jpg

Nice, can't wait to see more!

Ben,
Good luck in your new business.

Blake,
Can we count on you to keep us updated on this project? I'm not to far behind you with my project and I'd love to see this package before I have to move forward with a stock style suspension.


https://s8.postimg.cc/kfvss63up/FB_I...1014516883.jpg