Project: Doubler
 

Hello all,

As my '64 Vette project was moving at an anemic pace due to long lead items, I've started in on another project (ahem: ADD).

https://s5.postimg.cc/xefwtcbrr/IMG_0672.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/505vvpytz/IMG_0658.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/rreyi4jvb/IMG_0659.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/acuq9umqf/IMG_0661.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/c8hil0bkn/IMG_0665.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/5adef2dg7/IMG_0664.jpg

Last time it was registered:

https://s5.postimg.cc/iwiplckgn/IMG_0673.jpg

Part of the reason for the name "Doubler". Originally, this was a real-deal 396/325hp with a TH400 3 speed transmission.

As these are not numbers matching (correct YOM, though), today I received a nice shiny new LT4 with a 8L90E.

Lets see...
325hp ... 650hp -- yep, double.
3 speed trans ... 8 speed trans. Over achiever. :)

https://s5.postimg.org/w9qg1peon/GDJE2156.jpg

The target is to double the stopping power, going from drums on all four corners and double the cornering.

:cheers:

This will be great! What are you doing for suspension?

Thanks.

For the frame, which is very solid, I'm going to firm that up with a Hellwig kit.

For the rear, it will stay a solid axle rear. I'm considering something like a DSE rear speed kit. Others have similar. Any recommendations?

Clearly, the factory geometry leaves much to be desired. I've been eyeing the spindles, etc. from Chassisworks. Have not landed on a decision yet, though.

:cheers:

Motor Mounts
 

Hello All,

Just scribing some mental notes in hopes that they may be useful for someone else.

The LT4 will (obviously) require some way to adapt the motor mounts. The options I found are:

Dingo Glider Gen V LT Adjustable Conversion Swap Mounts
https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/imag...T-GLIDER-1.jpg

Dingo Double-D LT 1958-72 LT Gen V Adapter Plates
https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/imag...UBLE-D-A-1.jpg

ICT Billet LT1 Engine Swap Bracket Conversion for Motor Mounts
http://www.ictbillet.com/media/catal...6/363_1__1.jpg

Art Morrison LT1/LT4 Engine Mounts
32555765 LT1/4 Engine Poly Motor Mount
32555767 LT1/4 Engine Rubber Motor Mount

(see their catalog)

I ended up going with the non-sliding Dingo Double-D. The reason is that the sliding ones apparently have fitment issues with a low mounted, engine belt driven components on the Chevelle.

An updated shout out for Speedtech who produced a LT1 / LT4 engine mount:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=55853

Cooling
 

Hello all,

Again, scribing in hopes it is useful for someone else.

I was working through the cooling solution. What it needs is:

Oil cooler
Trans cooler
Radiator
Charge cooler (similar to a radiator, it cools the air charge in the supercharger)
Air Conditioning condenser

On my '67, the hood release is smack in the middle of the radiator, leaving 3" between the front of the radiator and it.

Working with John Dingman at Dewitts, he has worked out a solution. Basically, they have a direct fit (#6139002A) LS radiator that will work. There is not much different from the LS motors to the LT4 motor as far as the radiator is concerned. I've worked with Dewitts on another project ('64 Vette) and everything has been top notch.

The radiator has dual 12" fans and has a transmission cooler as part of the deal. So, two of the requirements done.

The charge cooler is a custom one - basically two connected in the middle so it can fit.

In any event, he is working through everything and will be sending it my way next week.

:cheers:

Oil pans
 

Looking into oil pans, there are a few options:

Moroso 20155:


Holley 302-22
https://eb9239d2b3c1bda1d53d-6b4eb89.../302-22_v1.jpg

-- or --

302-20
https://eb9239d2b3c1bda1d53d-6b4eb89.../302-20_v1.jpg

Holley also has a LT road-race oil pan baffle, for use with 302-20:
https://eb9239d2b3c1bda1d53d-6b4eb89.../302-30_v1.jpg

Apparently, these fit Gen V LT wet sump engines up to a 4.00″ stroke.

It is recommended to use the LT Dipstick & Dipstick Tube – GM p/n’s 12658475 & 12661062 for the Holley solutions. Moroso recommend GM #s 12643278 and 12652951.

Also, realize that the LT1 has a different oil cooler than the LT4 (which is bigger and won't fit in my application).

While the Moroso pan looks nice, they don't offer any mounting to the tranns like OEM (and Holley).
I think Holley's Gen.v swap pan is a home run. It will basically bolt in wherever a 98-02 F-body pan fit. It looks like the DD mounts might work. I'm sure Holley will be doing the intense Gen. V LT product development as they are doing for the LS. The swap sagment is looking really exciting now. Especially if you have the money to purchase this stuff. :ups:

Thanks. I was leaning towards the Moroso pan and had not noticed the Holley has the additional mounting.

Already have the DD adapter plates sitting in my garage. Hopefully, the engine and trans will be in over the course of the next several weeks.

:cheers:

Also noticed MR has an LT conversion oil pan, part number 000-6490-00.

http://www.brphotrods.com/mm5/graphi...LTpankitlg.jpg

It does not have the additional mounting like the Holley and OEM units.

:cheers:

Belt drive
 

Hey all,

Looking at belt drive systems, it looks like the options are:

Drive Junky Gen 5 LT4 Street Monster Serpentine blower drive:

http://drivejunky.com/product/lt4-se...-system-black/

Pace SS-LT4-FEA-1P :

http://paceperformance.com/i-2384076...t-p-s-a-c.html

Or you can go factory, but there is no power steering pump provisions and A/C is a separate item:

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LT4-...90-P51535.aspx

Personally, I'm leaning towards the drive junky unit. I prefer the belt routing for the super charger.

Anyone else see other options?

:cheers:

FYI, the Holley pan in the '70 Chevelle. Plenty of room.

http://automobileman.com/wp/wp-conte...lley-pan-2.jpg

http://automobileman.com/wp/wp-conte...lley-pan-1.jpg

http://automobileman.com/wp/wp-conte...lley-pan-3.jpg

Parts is parts!
 

Hey all,

Well, I'm a few weeks into the project and I have the front end off of the car, the old engine / trans sold and am slowly receiving parts.

I ended up sending the grill / radiator support / hood latch / etc. part of the front clip (i.e. the front clip minus the fenders and hood) to Dewitts so they can work through the multiple layers of cooling.

Drive Junky are still working on the belt, etc. for the front of the engine. The shipping ETA is about a week.

I did receive the Holley oil pan and am waiting for the other parts to do the install.

Working through the steering, I thought I would go with Lee Powersteering rebuilding / modifying the original gear box. They can do either 12.7:1, 14:1 or 16:1VR. After much research, I'm going to try the 12.7:1 and have the 3 bearing road race package done.

http://leepowersteering.com/gear-rebuilds-and-upgrades/

:cheers:

I'm curious to see how you like the Drive Junky FEAD. I like this build!

Subscribed!

Tim

Thread updated to move from PB to postimg. Unreal!

Anyhow, making progress. Have the front clip off, A/C out, master cylinder / power brake booster, etc. off. At this point everything front of the firewall is off save for the frame and suspension.

Now for the interior... :)

:cheers:

Great info to have on the LT engines. It can be a challenge to be on the bleeding edge of new products, thanks for posting your build.

ABC Performance in Michigan has mini tub kits, frame notching kits etc. for the A body. Nice stuff. Check them out.

Thanks! I was checking out their frame boxing kits.

:cheers:

I ordered both the mini tub and frame notching kits from ABC. See:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mini-...m-a-body-step/

http://www.abcperformance.net/store/...products_id=34

Looks like they will be delivered tomorrow (I missed the delivery on Friday). Quick delivery!

Also received my Lee power steering gear and tank.

http://leepowersteering.com/wp-conte...4/IMG_7407.jpg

http://leepowersteering.com/wp-conte...ar-4-x-3-1.jpg

The pump went to Drive Junky for incorporating with their drive system. That has shipped as well, so hopefully it will arrive here by Wednesday.

http://leepowersteering.com/

Talking with Zach at Drive Junky (really good guy), it looks like they can accommodate both the ATI and Lingenfelter overdrive for the LT4.

So, here is what ATI offers:
http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...ts/damserp.htm

Lingenfelter has an overdrive unit as well:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/product/L250580215.html

The difference between the two is the ATI unit uses an eight rib belt. Lingenfelter uses a 10 rib belt. The Lingenfelter unit requires pressing the pulley off of the supercharger as well as changing the lower pulley. Lingenfelter has a single 15% OD option, where ATI offers several different options, from under drive to 20% OD.

Talking to Zach, they are still working through getting everything fitted for the OD pulleys, but will work with me to ensure fitment.

http://www.drivejunky.com

Talking with Ultimate Headers, they are still working through headers for the '67 Chevelle. It should be released in a couple of weeks. That said, I put on order a set with their 316L stainless flange

http://ultimateheaders.com/images/pr...LT1_MIRROR.jpg

I also am going with their extreme low profile clamps:

http://ultimateheaders.com/images/he...ile-Clamps.png

Finally, it will all be ceramic coated (verses polished) for low maintenance.

http://ultimateheaders.com/swap-head...4-camaro.shtml

On the car, I finally have everything under the dash removed and the wiring harness in the trunk removed. I was thinking of getting the passenger's side rear quarter and wheel tubs changed before getting the body e-coated. That way, the e-coating will be in all weld seams.

Thoughts?

:cheers:

I love how the ultimate low profile clamps looks, but I have had issues with them sealing. Had to re-toque them twice now. With that said, their headers are awesome.

I was thinking about that, along with the cost.

Currently I can get a 3-4" V-band stainless clamp for ~$30 from Amazon, but I thought I'd give these a try. At worse I'd have to do some welding and have it re-ceramic coated if their clamp gives me issues. Hopefully all will be well, but only time will tell.

If you don't mind, let me know if you have to re-torque them again.

Thanks!

:cheers:

do those v bands come with steel or stainless rings? Sounds to cheap to have stainless rings.

Looks like stainless:

https://www.amazon.com/3-00-Clamp-Tu...st+clamps+3%22

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-V-B...st+clamps+3%22

Thoughts?

As an aside, today was a bit like Christmas! I received boxes from Drive Junky, ABC and some sheet metal parts I ordered from AMD. Too bad the garage is roasting in the evenings or I'd be doing more out there. Ah well, have to wait until Saturday morning.

:cheers:

Well, I knew that the Chevelle was hit in the back, but I did not realize the extent of the damage. Looks like, not only was the rear quarter on the drivers side was changed, the outer wheel well looks a bit like an accordion that has been hammered on, the inner wheel well is a bit tweaked and the floor around the wheel well is bent (though not too bad).

Who ever did the body work on the rear quarter cut the trunk floor extension with what looks like a can opener, then stitch welded the panel stump to the new quarter panel.

Ah well, what do you expect for a 50+ year old car.

Thankfully, AMD and others make the panels to put the old girl back together.
Besides, it give me a good excuse to use the plasma cutter. :)

Have to say that the plasma cutter must be one of my most favorite tools. Best purchase I ever made.

:cheers:

Working with Ultimate Headers in Berea, OH on long tube headers for the LT4 in the Chevelle. They sent these for me to verify fit before everything is final welded, etc.

Jim and the folks there are top notch! Can't wait to try them, but need to borrow a engine hoist from the neighbor.

https://s5.postimg.org/b7v5u1nvb/IMG_0802.jpg

http://ultimateheaders.com/index.shtml

:cheers:

Nice....................keep it coming!

Starting to think through the rear end. Apparently the rear has been swapped out. All of the bolts are very loose (1/2 way or more down the thread) and to top it all off it's a GM 10 bolt.

That kinda sucks and is forcing a change of plans. The 10 bolt won't hold up to what the car is capable of.

Started looking at the options, which include:

1. Strange S60
2. Strange 9"
3. Moser 12 bolt
4. Moser M9

Frankly, because of the strength and that I will have less in friction loss, I've been leaning towards the S60. Nothing like bullet proof -- do it right the first time kind of planning.

Thinking a bit farther, and perhaps a throw back to my Jeeping days, I was thinking of an e-locker. Auburn has the ECTED posi-traction and locking differential for the Dana 60. Eaton has a ELocker, which is a full open diff or locked.

Sure, there are mechanical (such as OX Locker) or air (ARB Air Locker), but having the e-locker would be nice if I wanted to run it on the drag strip every so often and having posi the other times (such as autocross).

What do you think? Too far out there for an idea? Any idea if the ECTED would handle the torque?

:cheers:

67 chevelle
 

I have the same setup. Lt4 with 8 speed automatic. What kind of transmission mount did you use?
Thanks

I have not yet. What did you use?

Thoughts?

I bought a gforce crossmember and a universal mount from those guys. I will have to Fab an adapter for my mount because nothing fits. I will get some pics in the next few days. This combo is a job to get in a 67 .
Thanks

More notes, this time on the starter. It does not look like aftermarket has anything at the moment for the LT4, so here are the GM part numbers:

GM P/N Description
11588711 Heat Shield Bolts (need 2)
12656132 Heat Shield
11610787 Starter Bolts (need 2)
12652772 Starter

:cheers:

I would stay away from the S60 due to limited gear ratios..... but if you like the few that they offer..... go for it. It also does weigh a gang load!

So, going on a weight conservation diet (gun drilled axles, aluminum hubs, chromoly .250 tubes, disk brakes and aluminum calipers with willwood racing vented rotors) we are looking at ~250lbs for a Dana 60. It looks like a 9" is ~245lbs similarly equipped, as far as I can tell.

A quick check on Summit indicates these are the gear ratios for the Dana 60:
3.54:1
3.55:1
3.73:1
4.10:1
4.11:1
4.30:1
4.56:1
4.88:1
5.13:1
5.38:1
5.86:1
6.17:1
7.17:1

Again, according to Summit, the 9" has:

3.00:1
3.25:1
3.40:1
3.50:1
3.55:1
3.60:1
3.64:1
3.70:1
3.75:1
3.80:1
3.82:1
3.89:1
4.00:1
4.11:1
4.22:1
4.29:1
4.30:1
4.33:1
4.44:1
4.50:1
4.56:1
4.57:1
4.63:1
4.71:1
4.78:1
4.86:1
5.00:1
5.13:1
5.14:1
5.25:1
5.29:1
5.37:1
5.43:1
5.50:1
5.57:1
5.67:1
5.83:1
6.00:1
6.14:1
6.20:1
6.33:1
6.50:1
6.60:1
6.66:1
6.80:1
6.83:1
7.00:1
7.16:1
7.20:1
7.33:1
7.40:1

I'm thinking in the 3:54:1 range. It looks like the Corvette has 3.42:1 for the Z06. Remember, I'm running the 8L90E, which has:
4.56
2.97
2.08
1.69
1.27
1.00
0.85
0.65

I think the bigger issue is going to be traction with the gearing.

So, yes, your correct but I think the Dana 60 / S60 could be pretty close for this application. As well, it has less drive line losses due to its design.

One thing that this does not account for is floater style hubs, dual tapered roller bearings, etc. all desirable for situations with high side loads. I think this comes out about even between the two.

Thoughts?

Motor Mounts
 

Working on getting the motor mounts all lined up and the engine in and ran into a snag.

If you recall, I ordered a pair of your Dingo Double-D Billet 3/8 Aluminum LT Adapter Plates. I'm trying to mount them on the LT4 and I'm finding that I can't get the passenger side to fit -- there is the metal tube from the oil pan in the way (as shown in the picture).

https://s5.postimg.org/54k2ngmvr/IMG_0834.jpg

I asked Dirty Dingo how this is supposed to fit. I'm thinking they will come back and say to replace the tube.

Also, when installing the motor mount on the drivers side (the Chevelle had a 396CI), the back part of the motor mount had a raised line, about 1/2" wide and 1.75" long between the two bolt holes on the top of the mount. This keeps the motor mount from laying flat.

Will need to work through this to get the engine mounted.

:cheers:

Talking with Tony at Dirty Dingo, he referenced the article at:

https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/page...=37&CDpath=4_7

Some LT4 supercharged models use a vent from the oil pan to a baffle box mounted behind the water pump.

You will have to modify the steel line. You can cut both ends and attach a rubber hose between the ends.

This will allow an aftermarket engine mount.

So, yep, need to modify the vent tube (which is what I mentioned yesterday).

Also, it seems they are recommending that I use the Energy Suspension motor mounts.

#3.1114 has a zinc finish
#3.1115 has a chrome finish

Looking at these, they have a plate that is supposed to go between the engine and the mount that has the same raised area:

https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspen.../dp/B000CN95AQ

So, I think I'm going to simply take the grinder to the mounts I already have and remove the raised area, as recommended in the book "LS Swaps – How to swap GM LS engines into almost anything".

:cheers:

Engine side of the mount:

https://s5.postimg.org/nvv6p3w7r/IMG_0836.jpg

Screw holes are aligned
https://s5.postimg.org/5dqu4vefr/IMG_0837.jpg

The mount does not lay flat
https://s5.postimg.org/5f0ryag9j/IMG_0839.jpg

:cheers:

I ground A groove for the lump on the back of the mount on my plates.

Installed the oil pan over the weekend. Several posts I've seen stated that I need to loosen the harmonic balancer, but I was able to do the swap without doing that.

It's a pity that Holley did not use an O ring around the oil pan. Would be a much better solution for sealing.

Also, I used the Holley oil pan with the hinged door baffles:

https://www.holley.com/products/acce...s/parts/302-22

What I found was the arm that holds the baffle box would not allow the oil pickup tube to be installed -- it was just too tight. What I ended up doing is notching the arm near the tube and I was able to get everything together.

Another note is that there are two sensors on the factory oil pan. One is an oil pressure sensor that mounts on the oil filter boss. The other is on the opposite side and I believe this is a oil level sensor.

The LT4 has two oil pressure sensors, so the second one is redundant. That said, I am going to run an oil cooler and have asked Improved Racing if their adapter will work with the Holley oil pan. It has a sensor port on it, as shown at:

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...tat-p-737.html

http://www.improvedracing.com/images...M-132_3_lg.jpg

For the oil level, I know how to check my own oil level, so I'm not going to worry about that. I hope this won't bite me in the future.

When I dropped the factory pan, I was surprised how much metal particles were in the oil. I would have thought GM would have cleaned out the engine far better than what it was.

:cheers:

Finished grinding on the motor mounts. I ended up flattening the top of the line pictured about 1/4" on both.

On the drivers side, I had to trim the front bottom of the motor mount. The block has a boss there that interfered with the mount.

Put the engine in to test fit the headers. Looks like Jim and the folks at Ultimate Headers need to do some tweaks on both sides. I'm not going to post pictures here as I knew these were prototype headers.

Here is what the factory manifold looks like on the drivers side.

https://s5.postimg.org/fcxfph4gn/image1.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/cqdbusnvb/image2.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/5uxopfis7/image3.jpg

Also remember that the brake lines need to run up on this side:

https://s5.postimg.org/mcbhou4ev/Brake_Lines.jpg

The drivers side would need to have the flange where the exhaust connects tilted at an angle, pointed more towards the firewall and perhaps down a bit. As it sits, the flange just about impacts where the lower control arm bolts to the frame.

As well, the rear bolt on the upper control arm is about 0.25" away from the manifold. For my comfort, I'd trim the bolt just a bit.

Also realize that I did not try the steering column. Some tweaks there may be necessary.

As far as the DI fuel pump and the firewall, with the motor mounts set to put the engine as far back as possible, everything still fits. Looking at where the heater core and the factory A/C goes, it looks like that will fit just fine. Not sure about where the computer bits will go, but that's another day's worry.

:cheers:

Anyone use this LED headlight kit? What do you think?

http://www.cjponyparts.com/HLA55/p/HLA55/

:cheers: