1987 IROC Camaro Pro-Touring Build
 

I apologize in advance for the long intro! But I think knowing some of my background and goals will help you to help me make some decisions on the project down the road.

My name is Matt and I live in Massachusetts. I own a 1987 Camaro Z28 IROC-Z that I am hoping to transform until a reliable, fast track car that is also comfortable enough to drive long distances. (Aka… Pro touring). All while on a budget. Seems like a tall task but I’m up for the challenge.

Some background on myself: I am a mechanical engineer and have loved cars from a young age. My first “project car” was a 1975 Corvette that my Dad surprised me with when I was 18. It was sitting under a tarp in someone’s front yard and he knocked on their door one day and made a deal. That was when my passion really took off. Neither of us really knew too much about working on cars, but slowly and surely we took on bigger and bigger projects until we had a nice driver.

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I was starting to get interested in road racing and autocrossing however, and started to realize that making a 1975 Corvette into a reliable track car was possible, but definitely beyond my budget. I just couldn’t afford to upgrade the suspension, brakes, cooling, wheels/tires, etc to get it where I wanted. So, I made the tough decision to sell the car that my Dad and I had spent a lot of time on and bought something a little more suited to track duty right out of the box, a 1997 Corvette:

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I owned that car for 4 years, and loved it. What a value those cars are… you can drive it on 400 mile road trips with the A/C on and then lap it all day at the track and drive home.

My passion for cars has not faded over the years and has actually grown. I love being around cars… whether it be detailing them, going to a car show or reading about them… they’re in my head and not going away! Because of this, I have set a goal for myself of someday owning my own garage to help people pursue their own goals of driving their dream car. Life is too short and I want to do something I love, or at least take a shot at it.

That being said, I needed a car that I could use to grow my "brand" and use as my “advertising” of what I can do. Even though the Corvette was a great car, it just didn’t stand out enough if I wanted to use it for advertising. At any given track day or autocross event, I would be 1 of 5+ Corvettes. I needed something more unique. I also want to learn. I consider myself pretty competent with a wrench, but I have yet to do any hardcore engine or chassis work. The Corvette didn’t need any of this, so I wanted something that needed a bit of attention so I could make it my own and grow my skillset.

After a lot of research, I settled on a third generation (1982 - ‘92) Camaro as a replacement for the Corvette. You may think I’m crazy, selling a perfectly good C5 Vette to pick up a third gen, but hear me out. There are plenty of these cars around, and they are not old enough where they need a complete restoration (which is most likely the case if I were to get something from the ‘60s or ‘70s) so I could focus primarily on performance upgrades. This seems to be a great time to pick up one of these cars as well, since they seem to be gaining in popularity and the aftermarket support is starting to pick up for them. The were also quite capable right out of the box, and are already setup with a 3-link rear suspension and fuel injection.

After doing a lot of searching, I wound up finding my car on Craigslist. It was one of the more expensive ones available in my area, but I have always heard to start with the best car you can afford and you will save money in the long run. It had a good body, and lots of performance parts already installed which was a plus. Seeing the car in person, I was a little scared as it seemed to be a bit hacked together and abused. The parts were there however, and I decided to purchase it with the idea that tidying up the loose ends would be a good learning experience and would be something I could do without spending a ton of money. Here is a picture from the night I drove it home:

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As I got the car home, I thoroughly went over it and overall it was pretty clean. It already had weld-in subframe connectors and quite a few suspension bits. A ZZ4 crate engine had been swapped in along with a T56. The car was still rough however, as if someone rushed to get it together and didn’t take their time… lots of things like loose wires hanging on the engine, oil leaks and disconnected hoses jumped out at me.

This was in May, and I had signed up to run the Optima event at NJMP in August that year and wouldn’t let myself miss it. Unfortunately, I had a really busy summer which left not much time to work on the car so I had to be selective with what work I could do before the big event. I chose to focus on safety, which meant really going through the brakes and checking all of the suspension bolts. I changed all of the fluids and added a fresh set of tires on the stock 16” wheels. I really wanted to upgrade the brakes and wheels, but there just wasn’t enough time.

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I am lucky to have 2 race tracks close to me that sponsor SCCA Track Nights in America, so I attended one at Palmer Motorsports park the week before I had to leave for the Optima event in NJMP. Fortunately the car did great, I ran three 20 min sessions and other than being black flagged for not having my gas cap on tight enough the car ran great and I was super happy!

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A week later my Dad and I loaded up the truck and headed down to NJ. I was so fired up for this trip… I follow the Optima series very closely and thought it was so cool to not only be there, but to run with some of the guys and cars I had read about and seen on YouTube. I was so fired up to be going! My only goal for the weekend was to finish with the car in one piece. Luckily, I was able to accomplish that and had a blast. We had awesome weather the whole weekend and the car took whatever I could throw at it. It was definitely not the fastest out there, but that’s mostly because of the driver (and maybe the 245 series tires?)

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Now comes time for the winter upgrades. I’ve been going back and forth about whether to pull the engine out of the car (which is running fine by the way), and I think I have decided to go for it. If I really want to organize the wiring and get it cleaned up to the point where I am proud to pop the hood, I think this is the only way to go. I also bought this car to learn, so no time like the present to dive in and pull my first motor.

I’m working with a limited budget and am also making a list of possible upgrades over the winter. I know I NEED a new radiator, as the car was overheating after 15mins at NJMP over the summer. There are lots of things I would LIKE to do, so I will have to prioritize and see what I can afford. I’m sure I’ll be asking for lots of advice in this area before I put out any big bucks.

If you’ve made it this far, thanks for reading. I hope by following this thread you can learn just as much as I intend to.

Thanks for the great read!! I'll be following along as you go. Best of luck.

Great looking ride. Cant wait to see what you do with it.

Torqstorm

Love third Gens and like your approach at buying a decent car to start with, much easier than going a full rebuild from the ground up right off the bat.

Something I have found that works for me is to plan your upgrades out very well and try to not take the car off the road for more than 2-3 weeks at a time. This way you keep interested in the car and project creep doesn't sideline you to the "Jackstand class".

For example, I just did a complete brake system upgrade along with some steering components in just under 4 days. My T56 swap start to finish took 20 days. Following this plan will not only make you plan your projects out better before turning the first wrench and will also let you keep enjoying the car as you upgrade it.

Great advice.

I'd say you're off to a great start. Make sure you have plenty of chassis bracing. It may take more than subframe connectors. Make sure the engine's reliable as well as having the brakes up to snuff. From there, learn and plan. Make sure you're always starting with a solid reliable platform even if that means forgoing the fun parts. Driving the car and learning its limits is the fan part.

Thanks for the tips Lance. My approach with my cars has always been to drive them as much as possible in the summer and fix any small items that come up. Then, in the winter, I tackle the big projects since I have about 3-4 months where I cant drive the car. I'm definitely aware of project creep and I'm trying to work quickly so I can get back out there in the spring.

Good advice Trey, thanks for the tips!

Here is my starting point on the engine bay, Looks fairly tidy from a distance but once you start digging in there are lots of issues. For instance, the charcoal canister is there, but not connected to anything. There are also a ton of wires just taped together or a thinner gauge wire crimped to a thicker gauge wire.

Starting Point:
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Charcoal Canister Area:
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Lots of rusty old fasteners and clamps too:
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Can't wait to dive in!

Cool project man! Good luck with your winter upgrades. It's certainly a good time to own a gen3 camaro.

Thanks for the compliments. Nice car by the way, hope mine can get to be that nice someday!

Made some good progress the past couple of days disassembling the engine bay. I've got the radiator and A/C condenser out, removed the alternator and the A/C compressor and have started tackling the wiring harness little by little and making sure I'm taking pictures and tagging everything.

Some progress pics:
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Here's a good example of the wiring issues I'm finding. This is the plug to the backside of the A/C compressor that's in pretty rough shape:
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That's why I'm digging into this though so we'll get it all cleaned up!

Here's an idea for ya? wink wink

Torqstorm

A blower on a TPI motor does work great. You've got the super ram so you can actually breath above 5000 rpm. The blower would just be that much better.

You guys are putting some bad ideas in my head! We'll see how much budget I have left!

Not a lot of time to work on the car the past few days but I did come across something interesting that I need some help with.

There is a third gen Camaro for sale here locally that is an unfinished project. The car comes with a ton of parts, a body, an engine and a transmission. I'm thinking this would be a great way to buy a bulk of suspension parts I need to buy anyway but I'm worried about selling the body once I scavenge all of the parts I want.

How much do you think I could get for a Camaro body with 4-pt welded in cage and subframe connectors? There are a few rust spots on the quarters... I would consider using this car as a starting point but it's just too much of a project. The car has been for sale here for a while so I'm a little nervous about getting rid of it... what do you guys think?

Here are some pics of the car:
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I don't think it would be worth it if you're planning to strip it and then sell it. I'd build that up if you wanted a more dedicated track toy.

OK that's the way I'm leaning too unless he comes way down on price. I may shoot him an offer for just the parts I want and see if he takes it.

Any other opinions?

What does it have that you want?

Lance, I believe you and I are on the same page.

I've seen people buy dead projects in hopes of resurrecting or gaining parts from them on the cheap only to realize none or very few of the parts work for the direction of their build.

All good points guys. I definitely can see how deals like this can go south... someone's eyes light up and think they're getting a steal only to be stuck with the same pile of parts as the first guy. I am especially hesitant because the gentleman selling it is having trouble getting rid of it...

Here are the parts I want:
UMI K-Member
UMI Front Lower Control Arms
UMI Caster/Camber Plates
UMI Sway bars F/R
Wilwood Dynalite brakes F/R
UMI Rear Control Arms
Built 9" rear end with 3.73 gears from Yukon Gear
Maybe the wheels (18x9.5)
Edelbrock strut tower brace (may not fit with my intake)

I would sell the following:
- Body with welded-in DOM cage and sub-frame connectors (it's a roller with lowering springs and a few other things I already have)
- Rebuilt 355 (not installed but has build sheet, been sitting for a year)
- Super T-10 4-speed
- New front and rear Tru-flex bumpers and side skirts

Does it still seem like a no go? My thoughts are to make him a list of only the parts I want with an offer. That way if he ever needs the money and decides to split it up he can call me.

My personal opinion: potentially make him an offer on the parts you need or simply buy exactly what you want new.

The problem is you need to determine a used market value for the bits you want. If you need to pull the parts, you will need to factor your time and labour as well as part of the expense.

If the parts you require are still available new what is the cost difference of purchasing exactly what you want / need vs. acquiring these used parts that may only be close to what you want. New parts also are a known quantity, used parts are... used and potentially abused.

Finally, I'm not a fan of trying to flip stuff. As clearly evidenced by the ad you are mentioning, used speed parts for sale don't exactly fly out of people's garages without help or a bit of luck.

I'm not saying you can't potentially score a great deal, I'm just saying keep your head above water and don't get too excited on what appears to be a good deal.

Thanks for the tips... I'm in agreement that these sort of deals always seem like a good idea on paper but never really work out. I think I'll stick with what I have for now, it's hard enough finding time to work on one car!

Made some more good progress this weekend. I think I am pretty much done with disconnecting all of the wiring, removed the wiper motor, power steering hoses and the driveshaft. Couple things came up along the way:

My wiper motor was modified by the previous owner to fit the Super Ram intake. They had to cut out the small pump for the washer spray which leaves me with no windshield washers... something that I'd like to have on longer road trips. I have a used wiper motor/washer pump to replace it though and I think I can make it fit by modifying the bushing a bit:

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My driveshaft was showing a bit of wear in some areas so I'll have to check out if it's been rubbing somewhere. I've also been having a vibration at high RPM so I am going to send it out to check the balance and maybe get new U-joints while it's there. I'd love to upgrade to an aluminum one, but not sure it's in the budget at the moment.
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The good ole Super Ram intake... that thing so was cool in its day.

Getting closer to being able to pull the motor out. 90% of the wiring is disconnected and I'm working on taking apart the intake to get at the fuel rails and a couple of electrical and vacuum connectors underneath the plenum (man this Super Ram has a lot of pieces and bolts!)

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One issue I need some help with is my transmission crossmember. The bolt holding the torque arm to the crossmember is interfering with the tailshaft on the T56... whoever installed it just cut a piece of the bolt head off to make it work. I'd like to do a better job when this stuff goes back in. If there are any third gen Camaro guys on here who can help me ID this crossmember and what needs to be done to make it work that would be awesome. I'll ask around on the third gen specific forums as well.

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Here's the best picture I could get of the bolt hitting the tailshaft:
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4th gen drive shaft fit 3rd gens? Should be able to pick one up cheap if so.

You need to be on frrax.com if you're not already. Great site for making fbodies handle.

That looks like a de-coupled TA. That's a serious piece if so. My guess is it was never designed for a T56 only the T5 and 700R4 found in 3rd gens. Honestly, I'd cut the rearward mount off the bottom of the tail housing. Those mounts are were the 4th gen TA mounted to the trans. You could probably slice it at an angle from the side so it doesn't hit the bolt any more and call it done.

LS swap would be my 1st thing to tackle. :knock:

I agree but I'm not the best for an unbiased opinion since all my vehicles use an engine from the same engine family... :lostmarbles:

However IF the current power plant is running well and meeting your needs...

I'm thinking the same thing Trey. I think I can trim off the bolt hole there and make some room for the bolt head. I believe Spohn makes a T56 crossmember but if I can make this one work then I can save some cash.
I'm also on frrax.com but don't have a build thread.. just using it for research right now. Thanks for the tip though.

I know an LS definitetly would make a ton of sense on this car! It would be easy to do since it's already set up for fuel injection and the motor mounts, headers, etc are all readily available. I tossed the idea around for a bit but in the end I decided to stick with the ol' small block for a couple of reasons though:

1. Price - I know LS's can be had for pretty cheap but the motor I have is running well and I can save some money but sticking with it. Not saying I can't build a nice LS in the future though!

2 . Uniqueness - I wanted to stick with the small block for now to have something a little different. You don't see too many small blocks anymore, especially with the cool looking Super Ram intake! Once I get it out of the car, resealed and checked over I'm hoping she should run nice and smooth for a while.

Continuing on with the disassembly process despite the 10deg temps here in Mass! My little garage heater is working overtime to keep my work space bearable.

I have the fuel rails and injectors off the car. I'm thinking these are Ford "blue" injectors from the 5.0L Cobra... can anyone help me to confirm that? If so, they are 24lb injectors and I think these might not be sufficient for my 350 if they are flowing correctly. I got the following from onallcylinders.com:

injector size in lbs./hr. = (Max. HP x "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption") / (number of injectors x duty cycle)
So...
Max HP = 350 (estimated)
BSFC = 0.5 (estimation for a modified, naturally aspirated engine)
# of injectors = 8
Duty Cycle = 0.80 (the amount of time injector is open versus the total time between firing events; .80 is safe for an OE injector)

(350 x 0.5) / (8 x 0.8) = 27.34 lbs./hr<-- Looks like I need bigger injectors... any thoughts?

I'd like to send them out to get rebuilt and flow tested as well... any suggestions on who could do this?

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I also managed to remove the transmission crossmember and started working on getting the transmission out from under the car. I tried supporting it with my floor jack and a piece of wood, but definitely did not feel comfortable doing it that way. That T56 is heavy! I ended up heading over to Harbor Freight and grabbing a small scissor lift to use. I don't mind buying tools like this if it makes my life easier and I'm going to use it again in the future.
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Navigator injectors are blue, Cobra are black...must be some kind of hybrid ��

Your math is correct. They most likely were pushing the injectors harder, meaning a higher duty cycle. Assuming your injectors are 24lb injectors. YOu can safely push injectors to 85 and 90% if necessary. Just depends on what you need, what's available, and what your fuel pressure is.

According to this link https://www.injectorrx.com/bosch-fuel-injectors/ They are 25lb/hr injectors.

They'll work just fine for you. You can always increase the fuel pressure, too. I recommend a dyno tune or at least a dyno session with O2 reading once you get the car together. You may find power but you'll determine if the engine is safe more importantly

In for the build.

Nice to see a Masshole doing something :)

Thanks for the tips Trey. I am sending the injectors out to get flow tested before they are rebuilt to make sure they are actually 24lb/hr. If they aren't I'll be on the lookout for a new set. Dyno tune is also definitely in order. Might be tough finding someone around here who can do it though... most shops are LS based and I don't know if anyone has the ability to burn me a custom chip. I'll need to research that for sure.

Just doing my part... hopefully you are keeping warm up there in NH!

Slow progress in the garage due to the cold weather and a big snow storm last week, but some progress is better than none!

I got my fuel injectors disconnected from the fuel rail and will be sending them out this week. Some of them look pretty nasty so I'll see what the fuel injector shop says on whether it's worth restoring them or just getting new ones:
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I took my shifter out of the car and cleaned it and tagged the bolts before putting it on the storage shelf. Looks like a Pro 5.0 (at least the shifter handle is) and I think I may change it out for something with a stiffer feel. I had an MGW in my Corvette and loved the super short, stiff shifts so I may look into one of those for this car.
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I also assembled my engine hoist I got from Harbor Freight. It comes in 2 boxes and initially one of the boxes was wrong, but they swapped it out without a fuss and now she's ready for action
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I need some help on something here... my car has trouble starting when it sits for a day or 2. It cranks over fine, but takes quite a while to catch. Once it starts it runs fine, and it'll start right up if I ask it to again on that same day. I think what may be happening is my fuel pressure regulator is slowly bleeding off fuel pressure when the car is off... so when I hit the key the next day, it needs to build up that pressure again before it starts. Does this sounds correct? If so, is there a way I can test my fuel pressure regulator?
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Looking like some warmer weather coming this week (we might get above freezing!) so hopefully I'll be able to make some good progress!

We finally got a break in the weather up here in Boston this weekend and I took full advantage and got a lot done in the garage. I'd been working hard to get the engine and transmission ready to remove from the car and I was finally able to get them out this weekend. I'm lucky to have my Dad living nearby and he came over for the day to lend a hand.

I had never pulled an engine, so this was a new process for me. I spent a lot of time researching how to position the crane, how to attach the crane to the engine and so on. I had bought a load leveler but wasn't able to get it hooked up to the thread holes in the back of the engine. Here is the setup I ended up using:
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My crane was a bit short to reach the center of the engine from the front. Looking back, I could have maybe made this work, but I ended up going from the side instead.
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Final setup:
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Before we pulled the engine, I wanted to pull the transmission from under the car. I attached my scissor lift and was able to get to 7 of the 8 bolts holding the transmission to the bellhousing. For the 8th one at the top, I loosened the engine mounts and lowered my scissor lift, essentially angling the transmission down so I could get at it. Once that was done, I disconnected the clutch fork and out she came!
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Next we started on the engine. I had left quite a few pieces on the engine thinking I could remove it with them still attached, like the headers and the bellhousing. Our biggest issue was that we couldn't get our hook on the crane perfectly centered, so the driver's side of the engine was rising much faster than the passenger's side. This caused the passenger's side header to keep getting caught on the frame:
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So, off it must come. I was TERRIFIED to remove the headers in the car because of the horror stories I've heard about breaking of bolts in the head and the difficulty of getting to some of the bolt heads. Luckily though all of them moved freely. I had to get creative with a couple of them and ran out to grab some stubby wrenches but eventually we got it out.

I got lucky here:
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After getting passed that snag, we just took our time and slowly inched the engine up and forward until it was clear of anything holding it back. I was nervous as it was hanging 5ft in the air over my fender but it all worked out OK. Here are some more pictures:

Slowly creeping upwards:
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I was terrified at this moment:
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My Dad and I:
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Safely out of the car:
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We finised the day with the engine on it's stand and the transmission on a table ready to be gone through. I was super happy to get this done so smoothly, I now feel like a real car guy since I can say I've pulled an engine! Now the fun can start!

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Congrats! I always hate moving the engine into place as well. Don't sweat lifting the engine from the side. That's how it's done on cars with long front ends. It's how I always do my car and C3 corvettes.

Fuel pressure regulators will often bleed fuel, but they are easy to check. You just pull the vacuum line off and if there is fuel inside the vacuum line or dripping out the regulator, it is bad.

You could also have a fuel injector dripping, or the fuel pump could be allowing pressure to bleed back into the tank. All very common.

If you have a way, you can hook a fuel pressure gauge on the rail, then install a shut off valve between rail and pump. Turn the key on until you have built fuel pressure, then shut the valve off. Come back the next morning and see if your rail still has pressure. If it does, you know its the fuel pump. If it doesn't, then it's an injector, or the regulator (just leave the vacuum hose off and see if there is a puddle near it).

Thanks Trey!

Definitely will try this, doesn't seem too hard. That was one of teh annoying little problems that wasn't a huge deal but bugged me alot. Appreciate the tip.