Long Range Precision shooting
 

I don't know if other guys on here are in to this or not --- but since I sold my little shed and cars and tools and all that dearly mattered to me.... when I got cancer.... I've got too much time on my hands and spend more time at my local range playing with long distance shooting....

I made a dumb little video - amatuer attempt at editing.... LOL

Merry Xmas all !!

Good stuff GW! Where's the LIKE button?

What are you shootin'? What's your loadout? External vs. Terminal ballistics?

Time of flight on these shots is fun to watch!

That rifle is my Surgeon action - Bartlein barrel - Cadex Defence Dual Strike chassis - 6.5 Creedmoor -- Hornady ELD-Match 140 grain - Has a NightForce 7 X 35 ATACR scope.... Bench rest only. It's HEAVY.


Come up was 27.25 MOA -- with 2 MOA right windage -- and still was fussing with holdover depending on where I could see it landing.

That round leaves at 2710 fps --- and is only 1392 fps at the target.... but is good out to beyond 1500 (as far as our range has steel). It's dropping like a stone..... my come up at 1500 yards is 61 MOA.... double that of the 1050 yarder.


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Cool stuff - - I don't know much about it... I like guns and shooting, but don't spend much time doing it any more. I appreciate anything done well. You need more hobbies! ;)

I would love to do some long range shooting, there's no where around here that supports it. Any shooting would involve out of state travel...with long guns. Only being able to do it a couple times a year would make it pointless... like going to the track once a year and expecting to get better.

FACT!!!


The range here is 15 minutes from my house (we have zero traffic) - and I can just run down for a few minutes -- or -- more normally -- be there for hours. Like racing -- the same guys seem to show up and we've become "social".

We have rifle range steel out to 1500 yards and soon to be 2000 yards and farther. I just donated enough to get the steel...

I find the whole exercise to be very relaxing.... it's "mechanical".... It takes some skill (like driving well).... so works for me as an overall hobby. Funny -- the people that come down (especially in the winter) are not the yahoo's... they're just very normal people that have found a hobby they enjoy.

LOL !! So true Brandon!

This is all relatively new to me (5 years) === but I really enjoy it. And.... it's so cheap compared to cars!! OMG!!

Nice Greg,

I also like guns/shooting in general, and recently started playing with bolt guns for long range shooting. I find it much more relaxing, compared to just emptying the mags in the AR's.

And you're right, it's cheap compare to playing with cars.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I shoot my .223 AR the same way I use the bolt gun ---- precision (hitting steel) at long distances. It's a nice custom built piece with Seekins Billet upper and lower - Noveske barrel - Geissele trigger (Super Dynamic 3 gun) - and great piece of glass (NightForce 4 X 16 ATACR).... and I start shooting it at the 525 Yard mark - and go out to 800 -- and can reach the 1050 - but that becomes a waste of ammo with about 2 out of 10... I use a Federal Sierra GoldMedal Match 77 grain in that. Too windy here for the lighter 62's.


Because of the distances we have set up -- there's a bunch of people here that are really into it -- and there is an instructor here that actually trains Snipers in "high altitude - high angle" LRP techniques. Apparently the terrain is similar to Afghanistan etc == so the military sends guys here in groups and a buddy trains them. He's helped me a LOT when we're just down there hanging out.

Thanks for sharing Greg...that looks like a lot of fun.

We all have to have our "thing" and you seem like myself that when you find your "thing" you do it right. It's been years since I've shot anything but have always been around guns and shooting and maybe some day I'll pick it back up again. Super cool that you have a place to do it at so convenient, like racing, a lot of us are NOT that lucky in that regard.

YOU have three of the largest ranges -- best run as well I might add -- right there!!! Mesa has a fantastic range!! I was going there every other day last Feb / March....


Right near you!

http://www.rsscaz.com/



One of the largest in the country!!!

http://azgfd.gov/outdoor_recreation/ben_avery.shtml



Another popular outdoor range

http://cowtownrange.com/



Where I stored my guns while there:

https://scottsdalegunclub.com/

I enjoy the long range stuff myself. With my hunting rifle that's 500 yards with off the shelf ammo. Fairly consistent on a 12" gong. That's really the lethal range of my 30-06 on a deer anyway. I have the Leupold CDS system and it works great on a hunting rifle.

I have a friend up North that kills Elk and Deer at 750 yards dead, but that's with a 300 WSM and a break. I had no desire to carry around a gun in the field with a muzzle break and I don't enjoy the kick of a 300 mag so I stuck with a 30-06 with no break. I can shoot it on the range and it's still enjoyable. Muzzle breaks are really hard on your hearing and I'm not wearing ear protection in the field.

When I moved to Chicago and lived in an apartment, I had to suspend my car hobby. I had to tinker with something, and since I worked at Gat Guns, I started modifying rifles in my spare time. It is so similar to cars, in the sense that you start with a "stock" gun, add a few pieces here and there, and the gun becomes better and better. You can also go all out with the aftermarket action, custom from the get-go build. Like cars, you can keep it relatively inexpensive, or you can get into guns that cost 10's of thousands of dollar.

Now I'm back in South Dakota, and I can drive 5 minutes to shoot up to 1000 yards. Great place to be if you appreciate guns, whether it be for hunting or long range practice. There is a few well known manufactures of ammunition, rifles, and stocks here.

I, sadly, don't have time to shoot like I used to. I do love rimfires the most, it's cheaper and shrinks down the necessary yardage. A 200-300 yard shot with a .22 is like shooting 700-1000 with a high caliber, except at a fraction of the cost and time to retrieve targets.

It's a blast!

30-06 is a great round! Perfect hunting round!


I actually have 6 Suppressors..... (in possession or waiting on the stamp) use them on everything including the 6.5 Creedmoor....and on down to my little Tactical Solutions .22 rifle. Shooting that little .22 with GemTech subsonic 40 grain ammo is a hoot. It just "spits" -- the loudest thing is the cycling. LOL

GemTech GM-22 for the .22

SureFire SOCOM 7.62 with quick disconnect for the 3 AR's (shoot Atomic Subsonic .223 rounds -- you can hear the bullet whistling thru the air!)

GemTech GM-9 -- for my HK Vp9 "tactical" (goofy threads so is dedicated)

GemTech GM-9 -- for my HK SP5K 9mm 3 lug

AWC "Thor PSR" 30 cal for the 6.5 Creedmoor

SureFire SOCOM RC2 for the 22-250

I have a Tactical Solutions .22 with a Hogue stock - NightForce NXS 2.5 X 10 and a GemTech GM-22 Suppressor...... That is one of the most fun guns to shoot in my entire lineup!!! I absolutely love that little rifle!!

I like to group it (best you can with .22 ammo) at 100 yds - then we have steel silhouettes at 175 and 225 up the hill behind the 100 yard flat line stuff..... I love plinking those two guys! And then ---- there's clay remnants laying on the hill -- and I take aim at a piece and keep shooting the smaller and smaller piece until it's gone - then choose another one! LOL


This was at the McMillan Firearms Long Range course I took (Near Phoenix) -- this pic shows our position and the 12" by 12" (one MOA) target we were shooting at. Surprisingly -- many of the shooters - even after a 4 day class - just couldn't ring it. I didn't find it hard at all..... but it does take some trigger control and some breathing and getting behind the gun etc.




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The sweet little (and locally made in Boise) Tactical Solutions .22...... This is so accurate - and never fails to feed -- just a wonderful piece!




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Even the girls can get in to it !! Here's Adrienne's birthday gift -- a Black Rain Ordnance in "Muddy Girl" camo... popping the 525 yarder with first round hit. That rifle had a Vortex 1 X 6 Razor colored to match -- but I just pulled that off and put on a Vortex Viper 6 X 24 - it's better for the longer stuff.

I love Basher's comment in the background (he was taking video)








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That was a great weekend and I had a blast with the pee shooters, perfect way to spend an afternoon.

I imagine the real talent comes when you can ring a target at 1500, 1000 and 7-800yds in one sitting. Like the pistol competition you do, do they have long range events as well?

Lucky for someone, I can’t seem to find the good picture of Adrienne’s Black Rain Ordnance...:lol:

The IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) matches are "real life scenario" shooting --- drawing from a concealed holster - or from behind a desk - or as though you'd just walked in to the mall - and an active shooting breaks out....

So that is more about "moving and taking cover" -- identifying the active shooter - making shots that truly count because innocent people are involved etc.

So that's about pressure (time clock) and accuracy REALLY COUNTS...... You have to follow the scenario as presented to you -- get busy as fast as you can - identify all targets in order as stated - and do the shots and reloads as stated. In other words -- you might only start the scene with 5 rounds - and or you're shooting from the weak hand because you slipped and fell trying to run for cover and now your strong hand is injured....

You have no idea how they try to trip you up!! LOL


However -- most of that is done in "pits" --- where the distances are 5 yards and maybe out to 20 yards. Pistols of course.

I guess what I’m asking about is long range moving or multiple distance targets to make it interesting.

Ah! Gotcha!


Trust me --- hitting a 24" X 24" piece of hanging steel at 1000 yards and beyond is NOT easy.... and when I get bored (after getting on target with windage etc) I start to just go for the "lower left corner" or doing what I posted in that one video - where I have to switch targets - moving the gun etc... A couple months back I was banging a silhouette and going for just the head... I was a 900 yards --- then I worked my way up the head area until I saw the splat just directly behind the target off the top of the head. Stuff like that -- just to improve your skills and see if you can, in fact, do what you think you can.

I have a couple of friends that are really into the pistol classes (might be what you are talking about above) where they spend all day doing active shooter type stuff, in and out of structures, obstacles etc. They say when they take breaks while debriefing mostly they are putting callouses on their fingers stuffing rounds back into clips...

Greg, when you go to the range...how many rounds do you typically fire in a session? Like do you just spend an hour or so and maybe 30-50 rounds or are you out for a day with multiple boxes of rounds fired?

Great question.....



Like many things we do - "seat time counts". And taking classes....


I'll shoot a 1000 rounds PER WEEK..... in the nicer months.... and probably down to 50 rounds a session (twice a week) in the winter when it's 20*'s or teens. Just too cold sitting there with only your trigger finger being active!!

I went thru 6000 rounds of 9MM this summer.... it's cheap to shoot ($225 per 1000 delivered to my door)..... and will go thru 2000 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor - 1000 + rounds of .45 ACP.... and 400/500 rounds of the .22-250 when I'm active.

I use the 9mm for the IDPA matches - and have three pistols - two HK VP9's (one is a tactical model) and a Wilson EDC X9 carry. So I practice A LOT with those (thus the 9mm burn rate) - drawing from a concealed carry and two on torso. I'm going for accuracy and speed - with repetitive practice. I want to be under 2 seconds for completion and a closed fist group. I have my own timer -- so just repeat and repeat and repeat.....


Guess I should have answered the direct question --- "it depends" --- I'll take more ammo than I shoot --- because sometimes I think I'll go down for an hour or so - and end up with a couple buddies showing up - and I'll get home in time to make dinner..... many times I sit on the spotting scope for others -- or some newbs show up - and you help them.... but I plan to shoot 500 ish rounds any given range day. A lot of times ------- I let others shoot my ammo and my guns ----- because it's fun to get them on to 500 yards + --- something they've never done before.

Thanks Greg, that is cool. Sounds just like car racing where it's almost as much fun helping others get better too...

I like that part as much as shooting the stuff myself.....


I have some stuff that other people would never be able to see, let alone shoot --- I enjoy sharing.... Someone that's never shot a Wilson handgun -- or a long range bench rest type rifle.... (heavy compared to their hunting rifle etc).... it's really fun.

Love this thread! I don’t get to shoot at distances like your doing Greg, with a long gun. Around here, if I can get on a target of 300 yards, that’s pretty good for the north ga. mountains. I do a lot of active shooter scenarios, with a security team that I’m a part of. We shoot together bi-monthly, but I practice at home with my son a lot. I shoot Kimber, because like all things, quality matters. We buy ammo in bulk, and shoot a lot. Practice makes perfect, just like laps in a car!

Great info Greg. My buddy Mark's dad was a top marksman here in the east bay/trivalley. He now has the LR' rifles at his house.

Question, does "MOA" stand for motion of angle?

My first 1911 was a Kimber Super Carry Custom !! Loved that gun and shot the barrel out of it! LOL

Then I bought a Wilson..... OH MY.....

I also have a Kimber Model 84 -- .22-250

YES!!!! SEAT TIME!!! And instruction - goes a LONG LONG way to making you a more accurate shooter....the speed comes with drills... and lots of 'em. Then toss in some competition on the clock stuff ---- oh yeah ---- you think you've got it all down. BEEEEEEEEEP


LOL

I've been shopping -- reading -- shopping.... emailed several of the top custom builders.... trying to decide my next LR lead delivery system. A couple things that were important to me was heavy palma style barrel.... great trigger.... long barrel for the specific round (6.5 Creedmoor) etc. My mind whirls --- another bolt gun with custom wild colors.... or a semi-auto?

We have a high end shop here in town - and I really like the guys that work there. So yesterday I walk in and a gun that I've been "looking at" for the last 6 months (meaning I've handled it several times....rubbing my chin) is ON SALE.

NEMO ARMS XO - 6.5 Creedmoor - Geisselle SD-E trigger - Bartlein heavy barrel - and the magic switch (Suppressed / Unsuppressed). Yeah I brought it home. Mounted the NightForce B.E.A.S.T. that was on the bench....

It also happens to match the Really Right Stuff (RSS) Carbon fiber tripod Alex got me for Xmas..... OH!!! Don't worry!!! I don't have any neighbors!!! The magazine is unloaded...




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For the "anti" gun guys -------- I have no neighbors ----- so the pic with the new Nemo on the tripod won't be freaking anyone out......






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Congrats on the new toy Greg.

I have a 5.56 AR that I built into sort of "long range" gun (18" barrel/high power glass/bi pods, etc...) Had it out to 600 yards with 62 grain rounds, at Best of the West outside of Austin.

My bolt gun is just a plain jane rem 700 308 tactical model with Timney trigger and muzzle brake.

I've thought about building a 308 AR, given all the sales. But I need to finish upgrading my Firebird first.

Thanks for sharing your other hobby.

600 yards with an AR is no joke! Good for you!!

1200 yards uphill in the mountains is pretty impressive.

I have a Ruger precision rifle in 6.5 creedmoor
that I have a Vortex Razor gen 2 5-25 that shoots sub MOA at the Sacramento Valley gun range on their 1000 yard range.

My favorite to shoot is my AR-15 with a 6.5 Grendel 20" Bear Creek Armory upper with a Primary Arms 4-14x44 ACSS scope. Shooting factory ammo at or below MOA at 1000 yards with an $800 rifle is pretty fun.

Ruger and Savage have both put out great bolt action rifles that are amazing. I had a Savage 10 BA Stealth.... and that rifle could shoot! I had put my NightForce B.E.A.S.T. scope on it (5 X 25).

What I notice the most from switching to the HEAVY Surgeon/McMillan built rifle is the follow up. This rifle weighs so much that the recoil is really minimized - and at long range, I can see my own hits. Makes it nice when I'm at the range without a spotter. I couldn't do that with the Savage.... it just jumped too much.

I have a NEMO ARMS XO (6.5 Creedmoor) with the steel barrel - and while it shoots great - I can't reach out there and spot for myself.

I have switched to the heavier Hornady 147gr ELD Match rounds from the 140gr. Where I shoot - it's really fluky winds - and the heavier the round - the better. And while 7gr doesn't sound like a lot - I'll still always choose the heaviest round I can get.

I can't claim that I can shoot "sub MOA" groups -- because we're shooting steel - and nobody is hiking up these hills to put fresh paint on them. LOL ---- but I have found that I can choose an "area" on the target and shoot it repeatedly. Lets say -- I decide to call out "bottom left" -- I can nail that call. Our steel is 24" X 24" for the most part -- so at 1000 yards -- that's 2.4 MOA

Great thread, I am enjoying the reading. I am not a great shot, i had to learn while in the military. I taught my daughters to shoot while they were teens, they can out-shoot me.

From back in the day, Mt Fuji, Japan, qualifying.

As you can see by the rifle, and the olive drab I am pretty old :lol:

We did actually have M16's in training. I guess this base was just so far out in the sticks they didn't have a budget :lmao:

No wonder your not on target Marine, look at your sling. Let me guess if God wants it to hit the target it will LOL.

:thumbsup:

it was only 300 yards :lmao:

When you need to reach out and touch something. 4384 yard shot (4008 meters). See about 2:50.



4,549 yards. See about 2:50 as well. He has two shots on target.

Impressive.

:cheers:

375 Cheytac is only around $7.50 per squeeze......



Oh -- and then you need 10 guys on the payroll.....



LOL

It always interesting to go to the rifle range as a Marine Corps Veteran ,I shot high sharpshooter while in .We shot from 200.300,and 500 meters with M-16`s with iron sites.And have shot out to 800 yards with a Remmington 700 BDL bolt action rifle with a 4x scope.And to see these people with rifles that look like ones from a video game having issues at 100 feet. I just shook my head . I have also shot a .50 cal Ma deuce machine gun while I was in .So I understand long range shooting as well.