Sometimes things don’t go as planned
 

Smart business people typically don’t respond to online attacks. But as this issue has spiraled out of reality, it’s clear I need respond to own the mistakes I made & clear the air about other things. This is more or less my version of the good, bad & ugly.

None of us can be 100% objective about things we’re emotionally involved in. What I say is the facts as I see them, and I know I have a bias like everyone else does. I believe some of what has been stated on Greg’s Mustang thread by people is true … some not … and of course there is always more to the story that puts events into context & perspective.

The big three issues … the dry sump vent, cooling system & body fitment … talked about on the Mustang thread are true.

I am not a race car builder anymore, and I do not want to be. I am a designer & setup guy these days. That is what I’m good at & what I love to do. I didn’t build this race car personally. I had it built. I have 3 good car builders in the U.S. we’ve set up as authorized Track-Warrior builders. Randy Chastain of One-Off customs is the guy in California. They are all super talented, but I am responsible for the end product, no one else.

As most of you know my business has sold a lot of “Build-Your-Own” Track-Warrior chassis packages & clips for shops & talented Do-It-Yourself car guys with fab skills to build. Randy had built “Rollers”, but not a turn-key Track-Warrior until Greg’s Mustang, which we labeled TW001.

The LS, EFI & no-lift shift T56 Sequential powertrain was a new combination for us. I don’t build engines. I configure what I want & the SDPC Race shop in Lubbock, TX builds my Warrior line of engines. Kurt Urban works there now & builds most of my customer engines. Kurt does a great job. The engine ran great & built good power (707HP of the dyno). Joe Dederichs of Texas built the sequential T56 trans with all PPG internals. Worked great. Max Darrah of X-ineering providing the brain & programming for the no-lift shift. Had an issue in June but worked great at this NASA event.

Sometimes things don’t go as planned. We had issues with the cooling & dry sump vent all weekend. It was frustrating & embarrassing. As I stated in post #532 on Greg’s Mustang thread here: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthr...=56209&page=54

I didn’t design the cooling system. I bought the best from C&R, as I have for years, and Randy plumbed it as C&R told us too. That’s not Randy’s fault. But it is my responsibility, because I bought it, and I am responsible for the whole car. Same with the Dry Sump system. I am not trying to shift blame. I am responsible.

Some people asked why we weren’t fixing the problems after the event. I thought we were going to. Greg & I made plans to. So I was as shocked as anyone on Wednesday when the feces hit the rotary oscillator online.

Back in the 80’s I built a lot of fiberglass bodied drag cars. All fiberglass race car bodies suck, but they are a light & affordable way to body a tube chassis race car. Just don’t look real close. Anyone who has built light weight fiberglass race cars knows this as well. Steel bodies are way better, but heavier & exponentially more expensive to build. Working with thin fiberglass race bodies is an art. This was the first time for Randy. Just before the car came apart the final time for powder coat & paint, I inspected the car & Randy had the alignment & gaps good. Not great, but good for a race car.

When the body went back together a few days before the event, the body fitment at the doors & front end was horrible. It’s not supposed to be a show car or even a street car. It’s a race car. But when it went back together for the vinyl wrap people to get started, things moved & the fit was not even good enough for a race car.

Greg told me he didn’t care about the body fitment … “it’s a race car” … and that the goal was to go run this NASA race & see if we could podium in TTU with the new car. Randy & I discussed how much time was needed to re-adjust the fit, and unfortunately we were out of time to make this event.

The misconception is that we put the car out like this as a finished product. Not true. We planned to fix these things when we had more time. I wasn’t happy or “OK” with the body fitment, but knowing Greg & I were friends and we were going to run the car together for the foreseeable future, I knew we would get the car back at Randy’s shop & take the time to fix it & several other appearance things that got rushed, like the wiring & the wrap.

The wiring wasn’t made neat when they ran out of time, so it needs to be cleaned up. The wrap installers started in the rear of the car with the stripes & they weren’t centered on the hood when they got to the front. The wrap surprised us that the yellow vinyl is not solid. The yellow vinyl has a degree of translucency to it, and each dark colored fiberglass filler spot on the body showed through the wrap as a dark spot. Not trying to shift blame. It’s all on me. I planned to have the wrap people re-move the whole wrap, primer the body white & re-wrap the whole car when we had more time, on my dime.

These issues were mistakes, not intentional. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have agreed to keep the original time line for this build when the custom widened body came 3 months late. I made a bad decision. Building a new car of this level for the first time, in only 4 months was unrealistic. It put Randy in a tough spot & there were errors. But Greg Weld has been very good to me. Anyone that knows Greg, knows he is a great person with a heart of gold. We had these dates set & I couldn’t tell him no.

The bottom line is I let Greg down & I’m sick over it. The loss of his friendship is a gut punch. You can always get more business. But a friend like Greg only comes along once in a lifetime. That is what I regret about this most.

Two other important issues were brought up on the thread that I need to address. One of me taking an extremely long time to get some people’s designs & custom parts to them, or their suspension setup with springs & bars. The second is comparisons to Frank at Prodigy who ripped people off for money.

The first is true for some of my clients from 2015 to 2017. I received LOTS of requests for custom car build chassis designs & suspension calcs with setup work ups. Way too many … and my dumb ass didn’t say “no” to anyone, so they piled up. I overloaded myself. I got so far behind that some client projects that should have taken a month took 3 or 4. A few client projects that should have taken 3-4 months took a year or more. Things don’t always work out exactly the way you plan. My fault. No one else’s. I apologize to the folks that projects got delayed so long.

The comparison of me to Frank at Prodigy is not accurate by any stretch of the imagination. I have never scammed anyone out of money. It has been implied I’ve “robbed Peter to pay Paul” and that’s why people didn’t get their parts in a timely manner. Also not true. With the delays in finishing people’s custom designs, their custom made parts were delayed too. But everyone got their parts. With delays in finishing people calcs & suspension set ups … there were delays in getting people their springs or sway bars, until I knew the rates. They got the majority of their parts right away. But the springs & bars didn’t get shipped until I figured out what rates they needed. No one has made a purchase with me & not received their parts. Not ever. I just needed to clear that up.

Today my business is different. In 2018 we moved into a great facility with offices, R&D shop and warehouse with an efficient shipping & receiving area, as well as having a staff of four now. Wendi handles bookkeeping & errands. Susan is a veteran office manager that handles all the business & financial stuff. She also handles all the Workshop registrations. Dave Hanson handles orders & shipping parts out every day. Susan & Dave have freed me up quite a bit. I still handle purchasing, but we plan to add a person soon to handle that, as well as shipping to free Dave up for more customer service time.

We’re doing more business than ever & the business runs smoothly today. I now have more time freed up to do “tailored” designs for clients, of the stuff we already sell & have worked out, as well as do suspension calcs & setups. We have zero projects behind schedule. All the new design work & calcs coming in gets handled in a normal timeline of 1 to 3 months. That can’t get any quicker. That is just what takes.

With the launch of our big catalog in August 2017, I stopped taking on complete “new from scratch” car design work. These can be an ass kicker time wise, because you need to figure out compatibility of a thousand things in the new design. So no more complete “new from scratch” car designs. Not sure I’ll ever do those again.

Now we focus on only two areas. One is doing suspension geometry calcs & setups with folks with the muscle cars we are familiar with. The second being folks that want to build a tube chassis car, of any car/truck body style, using the 4 levels of Track-Warrior front & rear suspensions we already have developed & simply tailor the dimensions to fit their unique car or truck.

If anyone has further questions feel free to call or email me.

I am happy to see you finally respond to all of this Ron. What happened between you and my friend Greg makes me sad. I can understand both sides and do not pretend to have an answer as to how to fix it or even if it ever can be fixed. In my opinion it is a case of over promise\under deliver with a side helping of unrealistic expectations. Hopefully everyone learns from this and makes better choices going forward.

I am pretty sure I was one of the first people in the Pro-touring game to actively work with Ron after he reached out to help me with my car’s suspension back in 2013. Over the past 5 years or so Ron has not only helped me pick out 5 different stages of suspension development, but has also taught me how to diagnose suspension tuning issues and how to correct them using the parts, pieces and data at my disposal.

I am by no means a big budget guy, most of what we did together was on a shoestring budget working with what I could scrounge up. I can not tell you how many times I’ve talked or texted with Ron on weekends, nights, holidays, in between runs during a race, etc… If Ron had the time, he always took my call and is always willing to help out no matter how big or small my questions may have been at the time.

Now granted, as he has gotten busier…sometimes it take longer for him to respond. What I’ve personally seen though is as soon as he can respond, he does and when he does he is ready with an answer to help me out.

How many of us have benefited over the years with advice or consultation that Ron has freely given out on these forums? How many of us have cars that are faster and better driving than they were before directly because of Ron? Is he right or perfect 100% of the time, not a chance. It is like anything else, there is no one right answer for everyone when dealing with cars and specifically suspensions. What works for one driver\owner\builder may not work at all for another. Ron does a pretty good job in my opinion of figuring out what you need and doing his best to steer you in a direction that will work best for you.

Fiscally speaking, Ron has always been straight up and honest with me. Not only has he always sold me parts at a fair price, but if there was ever an issue with anything I bought from him…he took care of it immediately. For example…last fall I was on a tight time frame to get my Big Brake kit installed. I had 5 days to get it done and the car HAD to roll back out of the shop under it’s own power so I could complete my move to Arizona. On day 2 I discovered that I had (2) Right Rear backing plates and no Left Rear backing plate. I made one quick call to Ron and he overnighted for early morning delivery the left backing plate I needed…at his expense. I had also ordered a bunch of steering parts at the same time that he gladly took back when we discovered that they would not work with my current setup.

I have referred a lot of people to Ron over the years for parts and setup services. I have never heard from any of them that Ron has treated them unfairly fiscally wise. Ron has always taken care of any issues that have come up. The comparison to a flat out thief like Prodigy was not fair.

I think Ron’s post is a very stand-up approach to a difficult situation. I have great empathy for Greg’s compressed timeline (and I sincerely hope it is not really that compressed – he is too ornery for that to happen), but it put both him and Ron in a box. Greg has already stated that others turned down the build because of the time constraints, but Ron gave it the old college try. Building a fully functioning, trouble-free track car in 4 months is an almost impossible task, especially if the car is a prototype of sorts. Ron probably over-extended. Ron has discussed the errors, and I wish he had the opportunity to make the corrections to problems that he accepted as his responsibility and knew were necessary – but that did not work out.

With that said, I will say that I have been doing business with Ron for a number of years and I have had absolutely no problems with the quality or pricing of his service or parts. I order “one-off” stuff and he works with me to get the right product. There are sometimes slight delays, but usually caused by me not having my act together and having to rely on Ron pointing me in the right direction. His Lateral-g stickys on suspension design and car handling have probably greatly increased the technical knowledge of most of us, and all for free.

I know Greg will get his car working the way he thinks it should, with the support of a bunch of great friends. And Ron will continue to be the suspension “magician” that we have relied on to make our cars faster. I wish both the best of luck.
Pappy

Race cars never go as planned
 

Ron I want to thank you for your workshops and sharing your knowledge and experience with us. I don’t see anyone else offering this up. Since my first workshop I knew I had a lot to learn and why my car was handling so poorly. Since then I have attended every workshop. After measuring my car up and getting it optimized by you along with your shock and spring package this thing is mean and only held back by the driver at this point.
Your continued support after the sale is also greatly appreciated including answering text on weekends when I am racing.
Looking forward to working with you on the future changes to make this thing even meaner and hopefully my own track warrior chassis car someday.

I’m saddened to see a situation like this. I have had the pleasure to work with Ron on several of the projects at my shop. He has always given me the time to make sure what I’m doing is right. His attention to detail is always above what I find from others at similar companies.
I don’t understand how a fast paced car build can be expected to be perfect first time out of the box. That is an unrealistic expectation and I suspect some miscommunication had occurred and then grew out of control.
Ron has fixed and next day aired shocks for one of my customers so we could make a race. He has spent hours on the phone with me a getting my car set up sorted out. I know the he has the best intentions, the ability, and desire to make right to Greg and all the rest of his clients.
I strongly encourage people to take advantage of have a great source of race car building and tuning knowledge and parts that Ron provides.

My history goes back to seeing how Ron worked with Lance and the results he was having locally in our KC events. After reading his suspension posts over and over I decided to have a call with him to finalize the direction I was going to take with my 68 Camaro. In the fall of 2015 I spoke with Ron and he was very thorough in explaining what ALL of my options were and the pros and cons of each path. I never got the impression I was being herded down a path that a lot resellers will take with customers. It was not much later that I laid down a fair bit of coin on parts to take the car to a different level of performance that what I had been seeing on the market at that time. All of the parts came in a very reasonable amount of time as they were ordered. After the car was on the road Ron was invaluable in helping us solve problems with installation issues from the shop that I chose(over tightened suspension bolts was the root). With his guidance the car progressed very nicely. In the end I have learned a LOT from Ron via the web, phone calls, texts, emails, workshops. I'm not trying to sound like an orchestrated fanboy here, the only issue we did have was with some incorrect springs, but once we determined the correct length the right springs were there in 2 days! It's not in a man's errors that I judge him...it's how he RESOLVES them that I do.

I read some of what was in the other thread and it seemed like a lot of childish **** talking which I'm not really interested in but I was very surprised as all of my dealings with Ron over the past 5 years have been on the up and up. He would always go above and beyond as recently as a couple of months ago when something was missed in a shipment and without question it was overnighted to the race track for our race that weekend.

As was said, sometimes things go wrong, we all fail, it's how we learn, how you handle that and move forward is key, I will continue to do business with Ron especially since he is owning up to this as any upstanding person or business owner should. Lesson learned, make it right, move on and keep kicking ass.

My experience with Ron Sutton Race Technology
 

I tried posting earlier, in the vendor/member feedback section, but it was as never approved, so I’ll repeat it here.

Basically, I concur with the earlier post, and my experience had been that Ron Sutton is a GREAT guy to do business with.

After learning so much from reading his posts on this forum,
I purchased a complete design from RSRT, wanting to avail myself to the experience being offered.
He told me up front, that he was a one-man business, and sometimes there would be delays as he got backed up.
As construction progressed, “new car bugs” came up, and Ron was always there.
Improperly made parts replaced, and solutions and alternative ways of going about whatever was difficult.

Being the “problem customer” that I am, I changed my mind in the middle of the project,
going from a wide 5 hub/15” wheel design (I liked the look)
to a 5x5 hub/18” wheel, for better geometry, and brakes.
Ron was busier, and it took longer to get parts this go round, but as always, not only were business dealings straight up, documentation was provided, and suggestions on how to best implement changes.

I consider dealing with RSRT-- buying a design, parts, and workshops,
to be the best investment I’m made.
The continued support is worth more than just the parts ordered.

Robert Taylor

I started working with Ron in the fall of 2015 after reading threads about how he had helped Lance with his Monte Carlo.

I spoke with Ron on the phone many times so we could decide what direction I wanted to take my build. (Ron always took the time to explain my options and to understand what I wanted from the car).

During my build there have been some delays with parts or wrong parts but Ron has always corrected them or got me the parts as soon as possible.
(Ron has flown to a manufacture to get an issue fixed)

I have learned a lot from Ron's seminars and speaking with him on the phone or by text/emails with questions. He was always willing to help on the phone or return my calls/ texts in a reasonable amount of time. Are there parts of my build the could have gone better YES,but overall I am happy to be working with Ron.

:) :) :)
 

I'm just a club level racer from over the pond in Oz and I was fortunate enough to come across these forums and the information that Ron gave in the suspension threads which helped me better understand and setup my race car.(This was a great help and it was free)
After attending the course in 2016 and learning a whole bunch I decided to contact Ron to look at improving the setup and handling of my car. I will admit at this point that the initial time frames proposed were pushed back a few times, as it seems that my job fell into that year range he put up in his post. For me that was no real issue, I was still racing my car and wasn't waiting desperately. However, once it was all done and sorted, I came to the following years workshop and got my parts at the same time and took as much back with me to Oz as I could pack in my bags. To be honest, to date, I haven't done all the modifications outlined, mostly due to a lack of time to implement them(It is hard to stop racing to do upgrades). The modifications that I have done so far have all netted big improvements with no issues. I got all the parts that I paid for and all the services too. I can say that there were no negatives to the overall experience other then the time it took to start it all.

It is great to see a response to this situation. Who knows whether it will clear the air or just stir more ****, but something is better then nothing and it is an open forum for all to speak/converse from all sides. Best of luck to everyone and I hope Greg does get the car finished how he wants it and actually gives it a fang around the track! We are all here because of racing, its what turns the world around....atleast for us motorsport orientated people anyway :)

I will only say this one more time.... I would have never mentioned my issues over MY car... or even one or two guys that came forward and told me of THEIR stories. There's not one or two people out there -- it's ridiculous how many peoples projects are a mess because of big promises and failed delivery.

If you want to hang your money and project out with Ron Sutton Racing -- be my guest. I did -- I got so burned it's stupid.

Consider this -- I loaned him $80 grand to start his brake business (not a dime paid back) .... had him in my corner for 5 years every time I tracked my cars..... Had him build me a $200,000 track car.... In fewer words - he was my friend and I was there to help him and his business.

It's real easy when all of a sudden you get exposed - to come (weeks later) and cry and say "so sorry". Those are all just WORDS..... same BS words used for months and months while owing people parts and so called expertise. I had called him on this many times over the last couple years - about talking less and delivering more.... because I was hearing rumblings of people waiting and waiting for parts and tech.

There are two mods and several other people that know EXACTLY what went on in the background before I finally became convinced that other people were experiencing real pain with their projects because of RON. I was the SLOW FUSE not the fast blow fuse. Too much hype and self selling -- too little real actual delivery. The boards don't take people out based on one or two whiners.....

You make up your own minds.... good luck!

I posted in Greg's original thread about my positive experiences with Ron, but maybe my post count isn't high enough to matter, or maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I didn't drop $200K on my car.

From a business owner that has almost 1000 online reviews: there are always 2 sides to every story. The previous Dr. I bought my clinic from summed it up like this... Rule #1: Try to please everybody
Rule #2: You can't please everybody.

Will I ask Ron for advice in the future...Yes.
Will I make purchases from his store in the future...Yes

I value my own opinion and experiences more that anyone else's. Even if I didn't drop $200K on my car.

Maybe this will help my street cred https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ild?highlight=
Almost 75,000 views and 250 posts!

My previous post made more sense before OLDFLM deleted his.

Follow up
 

I hesitated to get involved with this in the first place, but because I did post a reply stating that I had never received my coilover springs I need to finish the story.
Last week Ron did contact me with my suspension calculations. No less than five emails each way on a Friday night. In my error, I gave him some bad intel so I tried calling him Saturday. He answered right away and we spent nearly half an hour working out the new spring rates. I received the first two springs Wednesday and the other two are coming.
Just stating the facts here, nothing more.

Just wanted to post my opinion. I'm definitely am not on either side of this matter because frankly only 2 people know the real truth of what REALLY happened (besides the obvious) .

I'm glad you finally posted up your side of the story Ron.

The problem I see is that there's implications of many others who have had major issues with their build but have yet to post up anything? Ron was deleted as a vendor but with no explanation to us other members as to why besides Greg's build thread? I understand Greg's build issues being big but what other reason? Once again, not taking sides I just want to know what other reasons I guess. I understand he may have waited too long to post his side but he did come on here to try and patch things up. To what extent only Ron knows.

I've never had any problems with my orders or services so I can't speak any negatives. I'm just a customer. I've never ate dinner with Ron, never flew him anywhere exotic, never bought anything over the top from him but
He's always answered my questions, sent me all orders right away and always got back to me by phone or email in a timely manner with questions I've had.

I hope this matter can be resolved and both parties can move forward.

Sometimes we all spread ourselves thin as husbands,parents or friends but its how we move forward to correct mistakes or improve on ourselves that matters.

+1


I too am just a customer, and have good good dealings with Ron in advice, services, and parts over several years. I am sorry to hear of the outcome of Greg's build, but I'm not ready to rule out someone who has contributed so much without first allowing time for redemption. People make mistakes, and should be allowed to fix them.

I'm seriously concerned with some reading skills exhibited here.

I've stated about 50 times - maybe more - that THIS IS NOT ABOUT MY BUILD.


Can any of you recall this last couple weeks news about the Catholic priests? Did ANY OF YOU shake your head and think to yourself -- WHY DIDN'T THESE VICTIMS COME FORWARD at the time..... and possibly saved other lives from these heinous offenses? Why does it take ONE PERSON to finally say something and then all the floodgates open and all the other people come streaming out with their horror stories.

Were these priests doing "good" for the church when not buggering little children? Sure they were. Were they promoted and liked by many? Of course they were.

Should the church be accountable - if information comes forward that they knew of the offensive actions and looked the other way? I think you'd agree they're certainly every bit as guilty because of their actions - and allowing the offenses to continue. Harming more and more with each passing year.

People went out of their way to get in touch with me. Some probably don't realize I actually know other people that aren't on Lateral-G. Some people that are considered the pillars of our little corner of the world..... And they shared their stories.... I think I have saved 42 PM's. That's probably more PM's in a week than I've received since I joined. NOT ONE GOOD ONE.... People don't share happy -- they share the bad. Nobody in 5 years has sent me a happy PM saying -- GEE EVERYTHING IS JUST SWELL.... Meaning -- I don't hear from people. I get asked about my cancer treatment in PM's. But nobody sent me any "heads up I'm having a problem with...." The 42 PM's came flooding in after the news about my car started to make the back alleys we all have with each other... (Edited this. In an effort to clear up my thought/statement here)

Can you still remember reading my intro here -- about the mess the priests have made?

Trust me when I tell you -- this was never about me.... I'm just the last guy in line that took the biggest hit. I AM REALLY JUST THE GUY THAT HAD THE BALLS TO COME FORWARD ONCE I HEARD THE STORIES.

I've said it enough. If you like Ron Sutton and you want to continue to seek his info and parts. I don't care. It means nothing to me. That's your decision. I like Summitt you like Jeg's....

But now everything I read from this guy - is a dance. A dance around part of the facts.... errors of omission....and it always comes back to SELLING. If you knew why Kurt Urban moved to Scoggins-Dickey you'd be able to read between the lines -- He was not there, and he just got there - Why drop his name in to the story? Selling? People LIKE KURT URBAN. Yeah - he's there NOW.... but he wasn't there when the catalog was created.... wasn't there when my motor was built.... so why is that now important? It's a suck in.... his name connection sucks you in.

The time frame was not an issue -- never was -- but it suddenly is because it's a very convenient escape from the truth - covers everything doesn't it -- "we were rushing for poor poor Greg". That's about 35% correct. I was willing to move any date any time.... and asked REPEATEDLY about "can you make the date or should I move it?" The track rental date was easily moved... When it was chosen - it was chosen with full knowledge. PERIOD. Again -- that was nothing in stone. It was just a date to try to make. When the car was obviously behind -- I asked several times about killing the date or moving it.... and the date was never a problem. Now then when it got much closer - again many discussions -- and I allowed and agreed to -- the body being rough - the wrap not done - the chassis not "finished" and if we did that - we could make "the date". Okay - I've built lots of cars - and frankly when I thought about it - the body in white was better for testing anyway - you wouldn't feel bad about taking a sawzall to it. Ditto the chassis.

I have all the emails and texts discussing all of these dates and details (I'm extremely detailed and have nothing better to do). I'll save 'em, and did save them all along - A: as a reference B: I've done a few business deals in my lifetime

Okay -- yes -- TIME is extremely important to me -- but that's "larger picture" stuff... and yes -- it was "time sensitive" because of my "maybe" poor health (right now I'm in excellent health). But we've had so so many detailed discussions about that -- and my reasons, and how to think about that etc - nobody knew better than Ron - my friend - a guy I loaned money to on a handshake - a guy that has been instrumental in my driving and cars - a guy I wanted to succeed in the worst way. WHY? Because he was good for US. Because we needed a guy like this. NOBODY TRUSTED HIM MORE THAN I. Nobody discussed business with him more than I. Put deals together. Pushed his career. I liked him - I needed him - we needed him. I could try to do good things for him.

But === I can not - ever - never - be the guy that knew something that should be known by all, and didn't come forward. My balls are tiny, but not that tiny.

Another thought....
 

I get the "perception" is that I'm some kind of big shot in the inner circle of life at Lateral-G.

I too - would look at the length of membership and number of posts and think - Dude is a somebody.

I can assure you that I don't know the first thing about what goes on at Lateral-G other than the posts / threads I care to participate in. I don't ask what's going on - don't care - I don't gossip.... I'm on a Text train with two "mods" -- by the way - I'm not a mod - was never asked to be one - wouldn't be one if asked... WE do not discuss Lat-G. WE don't gossip about Lat-G. Are they considered to be some of my closest confidants and friends? 100%

I don't know if they were in the decision to ban/strip/censure Ron Suttons BUSINESS. I didn't ask - I didn't influence - it was never mentioned. I frankly don't care. That's Lat-G's business. I don't want to know. When I text or email with Jody - it's about my health - and HE asks me how I'm doing.... that's IT! I can tell you that I forwarded a bunch of info to him .... without any discussion from me -- just a "well.... here's another one...." or a "FYI".

I kept the confidence of the people that shared with me. That's their choice - their decision. I'm a pretty sharing guy.... I share WAY MORE than I should.... Way more. Why? Because I guess I think I have something to offer that I'd like to share with you all. Try to help when I can. Shut up and say nothing when I know nothing. You've never seen me post in suspension threads.... I don't post in ANY LS discussion.... I read - but I don't post. Why? Because I really don't know a thing about it. If you're welding or bending metal - or doing brakes - or having a timing issue with a SBC (NOT FORD).... I'll try to help. Plumbing? Oh yeah - something I love. Wiring? Yeah - as long as it's not some new fangled wiz bang auto dimmer door closer.... but if it's straight up switches and relays and 12V = I'll try to help.

What am I trying to say? I'm saying that I was as surprised as you all when someone told me they'd (Lat-G) taken down Sutton Advertising. I'm not shocked by that - given what I now know.... but I thought there might be a lot more hemming and hawing... and dancing around.... and "well that guy complains all the time about everyone" kind of talk.

Ya know what I heard repeatedly in mails and calls..... "I could have told you that a long time ago".... and "you should talk to so and so OMG...." and "I wouldn't drive that because of this or that".... and "you have no idea how much I had to redo of his stuff" and "you know that's just a Joe's Racing piece at twice the price, right".

OKAY --- that's my very last post ever on the subject. For me it's case closed - I've said all I have to say about that <Gump>

Not trying to offend you Greg at all. Not my intentions. My reading skills are up to par ( if directed at me). I don't watch the news at all. I'm just not into it. I don't read news articles either so the priest story I didn't know happened. I'm not religious either. If something happened to kids that's sickening and my heart goes out to them.

My post wasn't directed towards you if that's how it seems but more so about the dozens of people who only messaged you, that only you know the stories to but no one has stepped up besides you. I'm curious about the others out there. Once again not trying to offend anyone or take any sides.

I'm more curious as to why zero people have said anything? 5 years of complaints ( if i read correctly) but not 1 person said anything? Not saying it can't be true but wondering why just you posting? 5 years of you knowing the wrong doings of Ron but posting now about them after 5 years of 42 pms (if that's all within this week disregard)?

Not saying your lying at all but why wait 5 years and then promote his business that was bad 5 years ago?

I hope this all isn't coming off smug because it's a bad situation all around. Im honestly just sitting back waiting for more information from anyone else that's had issues to step up and say something. No sides taken and no harm meant with my posts.

Like most I only believe half of what I read on the forums.

I must not be able to communicate very well.... could be my meds.

I am saying that for 5 years I've been his best man! I didn't know anything until a couple weeks ago -- when people started to talk (behind my back) about my car --- and it's problems -- and that is the start point for me knowing anything "bad" about Ron Sutton Racing. I have a couple friends that had to wait extremely long times for parts and info - but I chalk that up to the usual stuff - busy - not really that important right now - "I'm working on it" -- "I'm writing a book".....

Got it, I read it wrong then Greg. Disregard my post. Thank you for clearing that up.

I read
"Nobody in 5 years has sent me a happy PM saying -- GEE EVERYTHING IS JUST SWELL.... ".

So I thought "man 5 years of bad service that he knew" my apologies.

Being that I've been around here for a while I can say this is very common. There have been vendors removed with many complaints where not a single one of the affected members wanted to go public. Some didn't want the drama or attacks by the fans of said vendor. Others I felt were embarrassed by what happened. I've had some well known names in our segment of the industry that didn't want to be associated with the issue, didn't want to possibly take a reputation hit. Whatever the reason it's their right to go public or not. I appreciate Greg's willingness to share and take the hit for doing so.

Ultimately I made the decision to remove him, felt like I had enough information to not drag it out further.

Well I’ve been building my car for over 24 years. I have used alot of RACE parts in my build. I know that there are certain times of the year that companies/shops (who build RACE parts) are swamped and deliveries go into the months. Just as I have busy times of the year in my business when there aren’t enough hours in a day.
I don’t know Greg but have been told by a trusted few he’s a good guy. prayers to you Greg and your health.
I have a customer that everyone told me not to work for.....you’ll never get paid. I knew the owner and never had an issue with him. Now 5 years later he’s my biggest customer and never an invoice over 30 days.
I trust my own intuition over those quick to tell me the bad in somebody.
Since working with Ron I have had people tell me some crazy stories (second hand no less) of things Ron supposely told them to do this or that. I have been to Ron’s workshops and have learned alot, enough to know what was being said was BS. All of these stories come from other so called suspension experts.
I don’t mind waiting for best parts or advice, just means I have to plan alittle better.
I’ll continue to use Ron for his services/parts and as more people drive my car i am sure more will be looking to Ron for help with their projects.
As far as Lateral G is concerned, the only reason I came here was to read Ron’s posts.

Me too.

Edit: To be a little more accurate, I do occasionally read some of the technical posts of others, but for the last 5 years I have returned to Lateral-g primarily to check on Ron's posts for the technical information they provide.

Pappy

I don’t know for a fact anything that happened, but as far as I understand the removal of the vendor on this site and others was due to much more than just this one build. I would hope if this is the case that the site supervisors used facts. I have to assume they did as I think this build is only on this site?

Sadly he's on many other sites pimping like he always has....

I'm not going around to bash him - or tell the story on the other sites. Frankly, he was already "done" to the guys that know anything - they never used him to begin with..... and it was funny how many guys from other sites got on the phone and called me to share.

Seems the only people that used him - were people like me - that don't care to really know all about suspensions (I just like driving and changing the oil) -- or that leaned on him for their projects and just drank the kool aid. People that actually know way more about this stuff to begin with -- knew the true story without ever having to use his stuff. Lucky them!! I just wished they'd have told me!!

BY THE WAY -- the pick up points etc on the SpeedTech stuff he did -- is AWESOME. It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DESIGN. My '65 is AWESOME... so he does know tuning and brakes etc. But that's not building entire cars -- or knowing all there is to know about all these systems. Or even being able to look at wiring and say - That's not how it should be run..... Stick to what you're good at... but DON'T DESIGN PARTS WITHOUT BEING AN ACTUAL ENGINEER.

I've re-read his mia culpa post here a couple times -- thought about dissecting it bit by bit and stating the truth to each BS point - backed up by emails and details.... But what's the point of wasting so much effort now.

I love the part when he NOW says --- "I'm not a car builder....." Really? Got his catalog?? He's the baddest, fastest, most storied car builder race winner of all time! LOL

Now that the car is a disaster --- he says he RELIED ON OTHERS FOR EVERYTHING -- the body (his choice / his source) - The Oiling (his bestest buddies ever)? Knows nothing about it. Didn't seek help until Sunday afternoon. The overheating?? THEY steered him wrong.... The builder? His choice not mine.... Never done this before.... (no kidding!).

My builder of choice -- wouldn't touch the project without about doubling the price Sutton was paying for that labor/product to be completed (about 10% of the retail build price)... and said no way they could do that much in that little time and have it be RIGHT.... Gee! Who'd a thunk that they were right on!!

Funny how he pimps himself as the greatest living race car guy ever -- but the one time he had to deliver - it's a disaster.... unsafe suspension - oil puking, wire melting, overheating POS.... It's all someone else's fault. So then -- what do you really know about building race cars?? Or even managing a build?


Why am I not giving him another chance to fix it? You had to be there (4 days worth).... to see the monkey f'n the football.... and then when I have guys telling me I'm going to die running that suspension --- and others saying even worse.... and your excuse (NOW) is..... it wasn't me..... LOL -- YEAH NO -- you only get to screw me once - it wasn't that good for me to go for another round.

I (lucky me!) can afford to take it to a REAL shop (SpeedTech) and have it all redone. The suspension - the wiring - the motor - the body - the crapwrap...

I gave him all the rope anyone would ever give a guy, and more. My friends were already mad at me for letting him build the stuff they saw in the pictures... but my response is -- this is HIS BUILD -- I'm just ordering what he's got in his catalog. I drank the kool aid... I let him run with it. He just used the rope to hang himself. Now that he's choking -- it's OH SO SORRY. Sorry you finally got caught?

Thru my years in business one thing that always throws up a red flag is anyone that spouts off on money. I heard in CA now you talked about making “x” dollars, now your spouting figures of a personal deal with Ron. Hope someone can make you happy with your car.

The money part is for REFERENCE.... in other words - how tight the relationship was etc. There's a big difference in level of expectations for people at "X" level -- if they don't know what that number is - then there's little anyone could understand about that. In other words -- this is a $200K build -- not a $50K build. It's wasn't a budget build - so what did you think you were going to get on that budget. The numbers by the way - were published as advertising by Ron.

Your kool aid glass is empty.... better get a refill.

The more I read the more I am inclined to call bull****. Sorry I just call it as I see it. Your trying to destory someones reputation and business. First off this $80k loan on a hand shake (didn’t see where Ron disclosed that publicly), I trust my two business partners as much as my family but I still have a buy sell agreement, just good business. All these other peoplle that contacted you about problems with Ron, why didn’t they warn you at the start of the build??? It wasn’t a secret build.
After the test n tune did you sit down with Ron and discuss the problems? Did you give Ron a chance to answer all the allegations your friends claim before you went publc?
Just saying Greg....you can call my a kool aid drinker, but maybe I am just not of one of those buddies blowing smoke up your ass

Be honest, you're a personal friend of Rons. You even list him as your referral to this site, and all your previous posts are involved with him. That's fine, but that makes your posts somewhat biased IMO.

I am the one who removed Ron, and not just because of Greg. I was contacted by several guys who had problems with getting parts and having major issues with his suspension design to the point of scrapping the suspension and starting all over. And a couple of these guys know what they're doing, not a case of the customer screwing it up which definitely happens.

You are defending your buddy and attacking Greg, but everything Greg posted is true. I personally liked Ron. But in cases like these where numerous people have similar claims we have to make difficult decisions which always lean towards what's best for our members. Even though it cost me money out of pocket I didn't feel like I could keep him as a vendor on my site.

Kool aid drinker or not you need better comprehension skills, between the two threads it’s been explained pretty clear.

I’d be happy to provide the cliff notes, in crayon if you prefer. :sieg:

Personal friend of Ron’s, I guess. He has provided me services but I don’t get Chrismas cards from him. Lol...last time I texted him he asked who i was.
Aren’t you a friend of Greg’s? Why does that matter?
I guess the G in lateral G stands for Greg.
Like I declared up front I only came to this forum to read Ron’s posts on suspensions and learn all could. I can’t afford someone to build my car and I do all my own work.
I think BOTH are at fault here and if I was Greg I would be pissed too. But to publicly destory someone like this is not right. I’d be saying something no matter who it was. Greg's signature speaks volumes.
You can ban me too since I am not on the Greg train.

My best friend, since we were 15 ... now 40 doesnt send me a Christmas card either ...

No, it has not been explained clearly. We can see Greg's issues, but I suspect there was something personal that lit the fuse, or Greg would have given Ron a chance to fix the problems - but that's not our issue to worry about. There are all sorts of accusations and allegations, undocumented and mostly passed second hand to a body of moderators that unilaterally made their decision to chop-block Ron. We, the forum members don't really know what the allegations are, other than a couple of vague side comments in the posts. The excuse that some (all except Greg???) refuse to come forward is a bit lame. We don't need to know "who", but we would, however, like to hear the allegations so we can judge for ourselves the severity of the problem, if there is a problem. And Ron should be given an opportunity to address/refute specific complaints. That would be doing your forum members a service. In the big scheme of things, whether RSRT is listed as a vendor on Lateral-G is of little consequence. Those of us that use his products and services will continue to do so until and if we find a valid, verifiable reason not to do so.

Pappy

Skip the crayons - my eyesight is good enough to read the fine print.

Rob,

I believe G stands for gravity.

Greg Weld is friends with probably hundreds of people - maybe more - on Lateral G.

If you came around more and didn't just post at the request of Ron Sutton (it's utterly obvious by the timeline and posts following his creation of this thread), you would likely be his friend too. He's a good man in many ways.

But he doesn't wave the ban hammer around here, I can assure you.

Have a nice day.

This is a privately owned forum and while its members are of the greatest interest they will not be potentially put at risk by endorsing a vendor and allowing them to market here when complaints and issues are too numerous and severe to ignore. Hopefully you will put some trust in Lateral G that they are looking out for the masses properly vs putting advertising dollars in the owner's pocket. This forum has always done that - and you can't say that about all car forums that's for certain.

This is not a jury trial. And this is not a publicly held company. And this is a not a witch hunt. No rash decisions were made here. Not on Greg's part - and not on Lateral-G's part.

But we certainly hope you and others see that Lateral G errs on the side of caution when it comes to letting vendors continue to market here to the members.

Well it sure is to Lateral G. It is an implied endorsement of one's products/services. Pretty simple concept there.

And you should. Even Greg said you make up your mind and do what is best for you. No one is telling anyone NOT to do business with Ron Sutton. But his selling is no longer endorsed by Lateral G.

Who else have I banned? :headscratch:

Can you please ban Charley?


Oh wait -- he's moved on to "The Military Channel".

Take this for what you will but when I was a new member with an EXTREMELY low post count I was contacted by Jody the owner of lateral g and he asked me questions over the phone about my issues with Scott mock which I posted in the feedback section .

Jody doesn't take sides I can tell you that. No matter who you are.

No there has been nothing explained "clear".