10 Seconds' 78 Trans Am Project (UPDATE 4-6)
 

Well, I have decided to post here about my current project, a 1978 Trans Am that I am modifying / restoring. I have been posting about it over at www.transamcountry.com, but over the past few weeks, have been spending a lot of time over here reading and decided to post on it here as well. Especially, since most of the guys there are more into 'factory correct' resto, not that theres anything wrong with that, its just not what I am doing with this car. It's kind of funny, but I already feel like I know some of you guys just by reading so many of the threads here.

Anyways, I will post here over the next few days to get the project caught up to date - I am 2 years into in now, so bear with me as I try and fill you guys in.

I have wanted a 1978 Trans Am for about as long as I can remember. I have looked for one off and on for years, but have never pulled the trigger on one. Finally, while surfing online ads I found one that I thought might be it. It was a Martinique Blue 1978 Trans Am with the 400 Pontiac, 4-speed, Hurst hatch roof combination. I went to Chicago and bough the car and trailered it home to Tulsa, OK. I finally had my dream car. Of course as time goes by, you begin to see the car for what it is. The car had a ton of rust, the interior was shot, you could almost put your foot through the floor, the corners of the dash were rusted out, hot air rushed in from the engine through the dash and the hole around the shifter, the A/C didn’t work, the roof leaked. The car ran strong, but I was afraid that if I really hammered it, I could rip the car apart.

I knew that there was a lot that I wanted to do with the car to ultimately make it my own. I was never interested in a straight factory correct restoration. I wanted a car that could make a good ¼ pass and cruise around all day if I wanted. I wanted a car that would outperform any of the new factory muscle cars that the automakers were starting to dish out. I wanted it to retain the classic styling that I fell in love with, but I wanted a new car. Now this type of build has become popular and become known as Pro-Touring or a g-machine. While I wont take my car on a road course – there is not even one near me – I am building it with that level of performance in mind.

I kept the car in the garage and drove it occasionally for about 3 months, before deciding to bite the bullet and tear it apart.

Here is how it looked when I first brought it home.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...owTA/front.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...gerinside2.jpg

Once tear down began, it became apparent that I would need to source a parts car to rebuild the TA since so many of the panels were in need of replacement. I found my parts car in a 1980 Indy Pace Car Edition Turbo TA, which was acquired for $1500, complete less the turbo, but disassembled.

Here is the gutted interior - the floor was so bad, you could, and I did, step right through it. Fortunately for me, the prior owner had thought enough to cover these holes with dynamat.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...ration1010.jpg

After acquiring the parts car, one of the initial priorities was to combine my 78 TA and the parts car I bought to end up with a solid, rust free trans am. This was begun in (late summer 2005).

Goal one was to eradicate the rust – we started by patching the corners of the dash. Somehow I cant find the pictures of this right now. As things progressed, the donor car gave up most all of its body panels at least in part – including the rear quarters, inner front fenders, rear filler panel above the deck lid, deck lid itself. The bottoms of the doors were rusted out, and it was easier to swap them over as well.

I also got a lot of surface rust ground off and got the car into primer the easy way, yup with a brush and roller.

The tail panel was pretty shot on the 78 TA too, but since the 80 model had a different tail panel, this panel was purchased as a reproduction piece from Goodmark.

If anyone says the replacement panel is a direct fit, they obviously never met my car. The panel was about 3/16 too narrow L to R and the gas filler hole was in the wrong location. I had to made this modification to get it to fit.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2944.jpg

Overall thought, its a pretty good fit and since I am not going for an "original" restoration, it will suit my needs just fine.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...MG_2967mod.jpg

Other that that, all of the exterior metal is original GM, just from various different cars – the interior will have some fabricated parts, including the floorpans and the divider between the passenger compartment and the trunk.

One of the decisions that I made at this point was that I would switch roofs from the Hurst hatches that the 78 came with to the Fisher T-Tops that the 80 came with – I always did like the larger tops, and since I already had both anways...

Welcome!! Another great build started!! :thumbsup:

Very nice project you have there, keep the pictures coming. My first car was a 78 with the ws6 package and four speed in the same color as yours. They are great looking cars. Good luck with the project.
Andy

Welcome aboard,nice project! I am a member over at TAC as well.

lmao! hey man same thing with me...i post over on transamcountry too but ever since i found this site ive strayed away from T/Acountry. i posted about my build of my ls1 79 T/A build and basically every1 frowned upon me asking me why i would do such a thing on a 2nd gen....lol those guys love those stock 2nd gens. i love the styling on these cars but the horse power is not their so i just want to build my own car. but your car looks pretty sweet my car has t-tops and my floors were gone! from the pics of ur floor pan its nowhere near as bad as mine were, looks good dude. i cant wait to get home and finish mine, dam you college! lol

Wow, My first new car (first new car) was a 78 martinque blue, gold bird, blue interior. Nice color although I would not do the powder blue interior now. Cool build, I am watching with envy as I am dying to do one. I need more time in the day.

Nice to see another bird being given "the treatment". Keep us posted as you progress. That looks like a great project you have there.

Yep,those guys really like there numbers matching cars.I do like the stock 70-74 TA's though(can't leave out the 74 SD455 :) )

Frank, at least you are helping supply me some parts for this one, I will have to post a picture with those QA1's on it. :D Now if you just sold the polished steering shafts and components, I would have to give you another call...

Another one of those decisions that you make in the early stages of the project - the engine bay is way too cluttered on these 2nd Gens.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...9-14-05020.jpg

And the stuff cluttering it really looks like crap.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...o10-5-0515.jpg

So I just had to have a smooth firewall. Here was my first attempt to fill and smooth it out.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2833.jpg


And


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2835.jpg


Also of note, since I cant seem to find the pictures of the Dash repair, note the rusted out condition of the corners of the dash in the first picture - it was even worse on the driver's side. And then in the last picture, its repaired and repainted - though I will have to redo it, I now realize I had too much gloss in it.

You mean polished shaft and borg joints? I got ya covered man, we run that on Prodigy, HOTT!

That's what I mean. Just sent you a PM.

Ok, here is another "catch-up" update:

Since I had decided to go with the Hot Rod Air A/C system, I did not need this cowl vent:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2838.jpg



So, in my desire to keep everything clean and smooth, I decided to fill it in:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2930.jpg


Here is how the firewall looked after this work was done:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2993.jpg

I originally had intended to use the stock rear setup from an 1980 model Trans Am for the project due to its rear wheel disc brake setup. However, after I mounted it up on the car, I was not happy with it. I knew I wanted to go with larger tires under the rear without it sticking out. I decided to do my own version of a mini-tub and move the leaf springs in to accomodate the larger tires. This was before there was any "kit" for the 2nd gens out there.

However, I ran into a few difficulties - first, the rear frame rails swing outward 1/2 way through the rear wheel opening, severely cutting into the space for the wheel and tire. Secondly, there was no good way to make /or adapt a bracket to move the leaf springs without binding it up at the front eye.

So I got a little radical here. I ordered a 4-link setup from Martz Chassis and a set of Competition Engineering Formed rear frame rails. I cut the factory rails completely out and used the CE ones to get rid of the factory flair out. I then attached the Martz setup to the CE frame. Since I was going that far anyways, the 8.5 10-bolt was replaced with a 9-inch too at this time.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_3055.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...TA/0606092.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...TA/0606091.jpg

Dang this is gonna be a cool car. Are you gonna go back to Marty Blue? I hope so, that is one of the coolest colors PMD ever used on a T/A of any generation.

As for us TACers (yes I'm one of them too)... don't give us too hard a time. T/A fans are fanatical... and as such, it's not that strange that most would be sticklers for numbers matching drivetrains and factory correct restos. I've owned several 2nd Gen T/As... some drivers and some pristine low-mileage survivors, but my heart and soul is really going into the (mild) pro-touring restification of my 77 Y81 T/A. No, I won't be yanking the W72-400 in favor of an LS motor, but I completely understand why some would. Hey, as long as it's got 2nd Gen fenders and flanks I love!!! :hail:

Nah, I still love TAC, I am still going to post there too. Its just I finally wanted to have some enthusiam and positive feedback for my car. Stock restos get more excitement there 3 to 1. And thats fine, its just not me. Thats kind of like over at Performance Years, if you even type BBC in a thread, man are you in trouble. :P (And FYI, I am going with a built 455 for the engine here, so I guess I am safe at PY)

As far as color, I am actually going with a custom red that is about a shade off of Viper Red. But the Martinique is a cool color. I may do another one in that shade someday. Since the whole Black thing (my favorite on a car) is SO overdone on 2nd gens.

Hey, I resemble that remark!!! :lol:

For many a year I was only interested in factory correct T/As. I owned a few drivers that were lightly modified (headers, duals, etc.), but always longed for a super low-mileage original car! I always wanted to know what it was like to own one of these cars new back in the day (since I was only a kid when they were new). In that vein I pursued several "survivors" and ended up owning a 23k mile 77 Y82-SE W72-400/4spd and later a 7300 mile (yes you read that right) 79 W72-400/4spd WS6 car (still had the original Goodyear Polysteel Radials when I bought it). I loved both of those cars... BUT, they were also kind of anchors around my neck. Both were so nice I was very tentative to drive them... didn't want to put miles on them, let alone risk anything happening to them. Can you imagine what a bummer it'd be to have some teenage idiot plow into your 25 year old survivor T/A with only 7300 miles on it. Even if you did get it fixed... it still wouldn't be right... wouldn't be a survivor anymore, etc. You get the picture.

Anyway I sold both of those cars and set out to find a decent T/A I could just drive and enjoy. I stumbled across my Y81 on ebay of all places!:lol: My goals were (and still are) to have a car I can just get in and drive anywhere and enjoy the ride and since I'm not a 1/4 mile kind of guy I was strongly attracted to the pro-touring style... PT cars are built to handle like a modern performance car, and most of all they are meant to be driven! :thumbsup:

Anyway, I look forward to watching your car progress, and call me old-fashioned, or a stick-in-the-mud, or a traditionalist, but I like the fact that you're sticking with Pontiac power. Nothing wrong with the modern LS conversions, heck the amount of effort it takes to convert an old car to a modern powertrain is commendable, but I still love good old-fashioned Pontiac torque!!!

looking good man, how wide/tall of a rim are you going with in the rear?

Well, right now I am planning to run a Torq Thrust II 17x11, since they are relatively cheap. I want a 17x12 or 17x13, but then I am custom making them and the price skyrockets. I have been planning to run 335/35/17's on the street. 285's in the front.

And where are the pic's of your car Bandit Ls-1? I did a search but came up empty. Dont be shy, post em up.

To start the Mini-tub process, we had to do lots of cutting. Basically, we cut out the factory wheelwells, and since I built the new rear frame section, we cut out the entire factory rear frame rails. Then we cut out the rest of the sheetmetal to meet the new framerails, which will be installed as a continuation of the front rails, running parallel the whole way back.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2988.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2991.jpg

i havent posted about my car yet on here. all work has stoped since im going to college out of state but im 3months away from graduation!! and then its time to start putting it back together, the body needs quite a bit of attention but nothing i cant handle. here are a few pics of her...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79...7/c02c60d6.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79.../chevelle2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79.../teardown3.jpg

Here is another little update:

After getting the new rear frame rails build and the 4-link mocked up, it was time to tie the whole thing together.

Here is where we cut out the existing rails and part of the floor to make room for the new rear frame and the subframe connectors we fabricated.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2992.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2990.jpg

As I mentioned, we built some subframe connectors:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2970.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2971.jpg

But they did not work out, so it was a lot of wasted effort. I just am showing them here, since I may as well get something out of all that effort, right? Anyways, we ended up going with a plain piece of square tubing for the connecting section after these did not work out.

Ok, enough suspense, here are some more pics:

After cutting out the wheelwells for the Mini-tub, there wasnt much left to the back seat area, and it has a bunch of hole:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_2989.jpg

Since I am relocating the battery to the trunk and dont really want to run a battery box, and since we had gone so far anyways, I decided to replace the back panel with a piece of sheetmetal.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0585.jpg

Also, the driveshaft loop from my new rear section was too high to fit in the factory tunnel. So I had to cut out the rear section of it as well.

Here is a shot of the the new rear floor pans and the new rear driveshaft tunnel area. Note you can also see the new frame rails running through the notch in the floor area:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...TA/070205A.jpg

:)



That's it for now. But I also need some help. I have become obsessed with supercharging the 455 pontiac that is going back in it. But I am also running the shaker hood and retaining the A/C, so Pontiac Dude's kit wont work. Has anyone else here done this in a 2nd gen firebird and maybe have some pictures? Does anyone else have any ideas on mounting the supercharger. I am not going crazy with it, probably will use a ProCharger D1SC. Thanks for the help.

Geez, no replies. I hope I am not boring you guys with my build here.

Anyways, what I would love to find is someone that has mounted the A/C compressor low like Anthony (awr68) did on his project. I wanted to see if it can be done like that and leave room for the SC above it in a 2nd gen (I think that Anthony's is a 68).

Cool project, and no, not boring at all.

not boring at all man awesome work, but i offer no help or ideas with the SC question

I love pictures of the rough in work,alot of guys only post the more finished stuff{its no where near as interesting}Cool project. Ron

Great Project good luck thats my favoraite year TA keep up the good work later

Well, thanks for all of the kind words guys, since you are enjoying it, here is a bit more.

Here is the backseat area all welded back in:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0662.jpg

And here is a shot of the new wheelwells in the trunk area.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0666.jpg

And view from the outside:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0665.jpg

Once all of this is put back together and prettied up a bit, I am going to coat the inside of the car and trunk with the hippo liner truck bed liner stuff.

that came out badass man, awesome work.

Urethane Welder for the win!

Looks good so far!

Nothing wrong with a little seam sealer over the welds. :P

Anyways - Here's another small update.

Filled in and smoothed out the side marker lights.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0774.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...A/IMG_0776.jpg



And after this it will be back to the front for a bit.

Hey guys, I am just having a thought here and would like some input. I have noticed that from the factory a lot of cars, mine included here, did not center the rear wheel in the wheelwell. It is biased about 9/16th forward. I, like a moron, just followed along when putting my new rear. Now I am wondering if it wouldnt be better to redo that and get it dead center. Or if it will really matter. It does not create any clearance problems. Your input is appreciated.

I think that it would look better centered and at this satge of the build that would be pretty easy.

On the SC'd 455- Let's go back in time to the glory days of H~O Racing- remember their TurboForce turbo kit? It mounted the shaker on top of the air bonnet with some studs and a small piece of sheetmetal.
You could do something like that, or even get one of WFO's shaker air bases and cut a hole on the side of it so the SC's inlet pipe can pass through.
Whatcha think?

Well, that would be fine, but the real issue is where to mount the turbo while still keeping the A/C compressor. I believe that the turboforce guys took it out, which I wont do.

Go here and look through the UPDATE section.
There's plenty of room for the A/C and the turbo. Maybe this will give you some mounting ideas.
http://www.originalho.com/TurboForce.html