Tips for installing air bags in a '67 GTO/Chevelle/GM A-body?
 

I have 2" Eibach lowering springs for the front of my '67 Pontiac Tempest Custom. I want the rear to be adjustable. I was planning on running Firestone 2500lb air bags. anyone have any experience doing this? Any tips or tricks? Pictures of your install? How you mounted/connected/fabricated your brackets? Also, how did the handling or ride quality improve, worsen or change? I am going to have each bag fill individually, so as not to let air transfer from one bag to the other as this will worsen body roll. Any pictures, opinions, tips or tricks that you guys have will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Nik

I have a '66 Pontiac A-Body.

What you're describing is perhaps the furthest thing from a performance suspension. No disrespect intended, but it sounds as though you're going for a particular "look" rather than trying to impact performance. The air systems that some here use, like "Ride-Tech" are about as similar to a 2500lb Firestone air bag as is a helium balloon. If performance and handling is your goal, you need to start at the front with understanding roll center, bump steer, the inherent poor geometry of the 1st Gen A-Body upper and lower A Arms. Lowering springs lower your car. They don't fix your handling issues. A lowering spring will lower your CG, but will also reduce travel, and in some cases actually make some of the poor handling symptoms get worse.

In the back, if you want air, call one of the vendors that specializes in high performance designs using air as a spring. At the end of the day, it's a spring, and needs to have certain spring rate, volume and travel characteristics. If you want massive adjustability to raise and lower height, you're going to give up performance. But in no case is a 2500lb air bag - essentially a truck component - a performance suspension.

JMHO.

What you are talking about is our Cool Ride kit:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ar-system.html

You will notice we do not use the 2500lb air spring in this package. This is due to a few things (custom mounts are required to fit the stock packaging without cutting everything up, and a double convoluted air spring provides too much spring rate and will diminish ride quality.)

As posted above, if you want that thing to REALLY handle well you should take a look at the suspension package as a whole. We make quite a few parts for that car (if you've not seen our blue 66 you need to do some searching as we've thrashed on that car for years and is still one of the best in our fleet):
http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...tures_hash=V40

I have air ride in a daily driver goin on 7 years.The valves get debris in them and stick open allowing 150psi to fill the effected bag.Moisture eventually damages the aluminum and they leak.Very irritating when you have some place to be and you have to deal with these problems.I've spoke with ride tech,their answer was just buy new valves at over 250 bucks a pop.I need 2 sets.My compressor burnt up,same thing we don't deal with them,you can buy a new one or call Viair maybe they can rebuild it for you.I don't think I'd put another system in a car knowing the problems I've dealt with or the support I received.I got the feeling unless I was spending 5 grand don't bother us.I'm sure every one's experience is different,mine was maybe a 4 out of 10.Did I mention the monroe shocks that wore out prematurely?:question:

If you are experiencing debris in your sealed system, it has to be coming from an unfiltered compressor inlet. Over time the air compressor will undoubtedly ingest some dirt that will eventually cause both the compressor to work harder [and possibly burn up] and eventually gum up the airvalves. The solution is simple...clean out the system and put the air inlet filter back on the compressor.

I would sure like to know who you talked to for help. Your problems are NOT typical...IF you are using our equipment. I say that because we've experienced [and resolved] these kinds of problems with valves [and compressors] during development...that is why we made the neccessary refinements before releasing them to the public over 14 years ago. It is also why we carry rebuild parts for the valves for those who DO end up with dirt in the system.

What we DO find in many cases is that the air suspension in question is not actually our system, but a generic "air ride" system that has been assumed to be from Air Ride Technologies [now RideTech]. In those cases we still do as much as we can to help resolve problems. Sometimes that includes recommending that the customer buy new parts.

As far as encountering the lazy customer service attitude you have indicated at RideTech...well, you are simply mistaken about that.
My guys on the phone have been here anywhere from 6 to 14 years. They know exactly what they are doing and what they are talking about. They may not have given you the answer you were hoping for, but I can absolutely guarantee that it was delivered with courtesy and effeciency.
I also have 2 guys who are "in training"...meaning they have worked here for over a year and are now sitting right beside our more experienced tech guys learning exactly how to handle these kinds of problems in the most positive manner possible. They routinely deal with not only hotrodders, but military and industrial customers who have absolutely no tolerance for unsatisfactory service and who continually give us excellent grades on both product and service.

If you want your suspension done right...or fixed after it wasn't...we will gladly assist.

Bret I appreciate your response and as mentioned every persons experience is different.I have never ran my compressor with out a filter.The compressor came with a replacement filter as well.I think the debris is more of an issue of moisture in the tank creating rust.Which eventually is blown through the system.My compressor is mounted in the trunk which is a pretty clean environment.

You imply my system was installed wrong which that's pretty tough to do.
Your last comment is similar to the response I received when calling for assistance.It implies you are right and I am wrong.

Quote:"If you want your suspension done right...or fixed after it wasn't...we will gladly assist."
So here you ASSume or imply my system was installed wrong.This is why I give your customer service a 4 out of 10.Not to mention I was told to just buy new valves.Not hey we might be able to rebuild them,let's see what we can do.
This system was purchased directly from ridetech(air ride technologies)not another company and assumed to be from ridetech.

Bret,
I have had a number of years with this system in my 2001 mustang trouble free.The ride and handling I have no complaints about.I have just noticed over time the system does have it's draw backs.Nothing lasts forever and it could be as simple as age and use has caught up with my system.As far as the customer service I just felt like helping fix the problem was not priority,selling me new valves was.I could just go buy new valves but if I could get them rebuilt it sure would have been cheaper and easier.These systems are not cheap and if the answer is after 5 years your going to need to buy new valves then it's an expensive investment.I apologize if I offended you,that was not my intention.If my experience was different you can bet I would recommend the system.

northcoast, did you drain the tank regularly? I'd probably invest in aluminum tank to minimize corrosion and drain tank as often as possible

Just a quick comment. I've never ended up buying anything from RideTech but I have talked to Bret and some of the guys there plenty of times. Nothing against their products whatsoever - just timing and a different direction on my part. What I will say that in each and every case, Bret and the folks at Ridetech were patient and helpful - even when it was pretty darned clear that the conversation would not lead to a sale. Everyone has their own experiences but I did want to step up and acknowledge that this is a vendor that IMHO isn't just looking for the next sale or the fast buck. Not contradicting any issue that may exist in this thread but I thought that Ridetech deserved a positive comment here as well.

Bret, I hope you're bringing the chevelle to RTTH. I've made a few tweaks to the Pontiac and am hoping to see how the changes stack up now.

As Bret pays me to break every part we sell I thought I'd jump back in the ring here, give a little explanation, and see if we cannot resolve some issues:

Nikwho:
I apologize for jacking your thread. If you need any information you can contact me through the typical channels (private message, e-mail, phone).

I should start by stating that every product on the market is in constant evolution, the latest version replacing the previous one in an attempt to make the product better in some manner. Just as your desktop from 10 years ago can't surf near as much porn in an hour as your current computer, our latest offerings have much more capability and a longer life expectancy than the early stuff.

Northcoastnova:
Let me break this down a bit. . .

Debris:
There's only a couple of ways to get debris into the system; it has to be "let in" or it has to already reside inside. So both you and Bret hit separate nails on the head.
A compressor with no filter, or a compressor placed directly behind a tire (ingesting whatever water, dirt, etc. the tire kicks up) will allow debris into the system.
An uncoated tank will rust, thereby causing scaling which will play hell with sealing valves.

Tanks:
You may have noticed that we switched a few years back to aluminum tanks. This served a few purposes: lighter weight, better appearance, and of course lack of rust.
Our steel tanks were coated inside and outside, so as to mitigate the creation of rust. However, water has a way of finding a path to bare steel and can create rust even with the best coating.

Valves:
About the same time we changed tanks we were finally able to purchase "rebuild" kits for our valves. There was a time when the valve manufacturer would not supply rebuild parts as the valves were supplied to us as a complete unit, and taking the valve apart negated the warranty supplied by the manufacturer.

Moisture in the system:
It seems I have explained this a million times, so here goes one more. . . The amount of moisture created in a compressor system is relative to the humidity of the air ingested, downstream demand and the size of the compressor.
The compressor system on your vehicle is not the same as the air compressor in your garage.
The compressor in your garage uses a lot of air and can run a dozen times in one evening. Each time compressing very large volumes of air into very small volumes of air (150psi is 10 bar, or 10 times atmosphere pressure)
The compressor system in your car will run a maximum of 57 minutes per week (if you raise and lower the car 3 times each weekday, and 3 times that often on the weekend).

Moisture is not accumulated in the tank in huge amounts. Think about it. . .a typical compressor, filling a 3-gallon tank from 130-150psi takes about one minute. The flow of the compressor is about 0.50cfm (cubic feet per minute). So that compressor just put one half a cubic foot of air into the tank. In order to create moisture we need to exceed a relative humidity level of near 100% (when rain happens), which the compressor will do when it puts that volume in the tank. However, just how much water do you think that .5 cubic foot can hold?
Let’s try an example: a very hot day in the middle of summer (100-degrees F) with a high relative humidity (90%). Run those numbers through a condensate calculator and you get 0.03 liters per hour. Convert that to ounces per minute (as our compressor runs for one minute from 130-150psi) and you get 0.017 ounce.


Bottom Line:
We are much smarter than we were in the past and we get better everyday. Do we have everything figured out to the point that every single part we sell will live for a hundred years? Not yet.

We have made huge strides in recent years to make our product better, our people better, and ultimately our customers happy and satisfied.

If there is anything we can do to help, please let us know and we’ll do whatever we can, within reason of course.