Lateral-g Forums - Ridetech single adjustable coilover shocks or triple adjustable?

Lateral-g Forums (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/index.php)

- Chassis and Suspension (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=38)

- - Ridetech single adjustable coilover shocks or triple adjustable? (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49816)

Ridetech single adjustable coilover shocks or triple adjustable?

I'm getting close to ordering my Ridetech coilover shocks. They are for a 67 Camaro with stock subframe and full Ridetech front end. I'm sticking with parts from one manufacturer. My Camaro will be mostly a street car, but when the suspension and subframe connectors are done I plan to autocross it. I anticipate it will see the autocross track 5-10 times a year when I start out. I currently have no experience driving autocross or shock tuning.

I've been saving for the Ridetech triple adjustable coilovers, but I was recently told that all I needed were the single adjustables based on how often I'd be tracking my car. I was also told the triple adjustables had so many combinations of tuning I'd be over my head. So my question is, are the Ridetech triple adjustable coilover shocks so hard to tune that I'll never get them tuned correctly and are they too much for my purposes? Don't we all over build our cars to make them more capable in the future and for bragging rights? Looking for more opinions, especially if you have used both shocks?

Sounds like you have already decided to buy the triples. I started out with single & upgraded to triples. They are not hard to adjust. Most people who make a big deal about shock tuning are not experienced. I would not hesitate to put the triples on it. If you are the type of guy willing to experiment with the settings go for it. If you need some help shoot me a pm I will be glad to help.

Thanks Eric

It sounds like the triple would be overkill (money wise & likely component wise) for your intended use. If you eventually plan to compete on a very high level than I say go for them. If not the single would probably suit you fine. For me it has been easier learning to tune the suspension with the single. There are so many variables, I feel it simplifies things. Do you run any of the local SCCA events?
Scott

Check with ron sutton on ordering special valved shocks. If he can set you up with a single adjustable for your application, I would definitely go that route. Maybe ron will chime in.

Many people get hooked on autocross, so you may wind up running more than you think. 5 to 10 events a year is quite a bit so if you can afford the triples, I'd get them. You can get help with tuning them, there are a lot of people that use them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Pozzi (Post 601521)

What he said.

We actually use singles in most applications as they have just enough adjustment to tune the car in pretty well.. But going with triples gives so much further adjustment and fine tuning to really get the shocks performing well. Also know that the more adjustments you have, the more you can get OUT of tune.. but if you're the type of person that has the patience to adjust things then i'd say go for it if you can afford.

Additionally if you'd like a quote on a set let us know!

-Dale

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric1967 (Post 601498)

Eric, you replied to another thread I had on Pro-Touring.com about the Tru -Turn. So I tried to PM this question to you there, but your mailbox is full. Thanks for the advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z06vette (Post 601501)

Do you run any of the local SCCA events?
Scott

Scott, I've gone up to Ft. Rucker, AL. to watch them autocross there. But my Camaro isn't ready for the track currently, it still has drum brakes and single leaf springs. I'm building a separate subframe with the Ridetech parts I will swap onto my car when done. I've talked to you about the SCCA region you're in and bought parts from you at Moultrie. One of these days I'll make it over to your region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Pozzi (Post 601521)

Many people get hooked on autocross, so you may wind up running more than you think. 5 to 10 events a year is quite a bit so if you can afford the triples, I'd get them.

This is why I've been saving to get the triple adjustables, but thought I'd get a sanity check here. Thanks David.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz Perf (Post 601534)

My frame is at the welding shop getting the factory welds re-welded. I still have to measure for the length I need with the Speedtech Chicane mount. Thanks for the advice and I'll keep you in mind when it's time for a quote.

One thing that I like about my triples with the Ron Sutton secret sauce autocross valving is they are mean handling on the course...but when it comes time to drive home from the event they can be dialed back for a great ride on the street.

Most of this comes from the rebound setting on the rear shocks, being able to back it completely out really helps the street ride. I'm not certain you'll get that same range of fine tuning with a set of single adjustables...worth a question to find out beforehand though if you are still considering the singles.

Hey Brian & everyone on here,

David Pozzi, Jeff Swartz & I share a common philosophy ... buy the best shocks your budget can afford. There are places you can save money, but shocks & brakes are not the places to cut corners or scrimp. Having said that, if singles is what you can afford ... the Ridetech single adjustable coil-over is the best bang for the buck in shock performance. I like them so much ... and they're affordable enough ... that we use them on a lot of non-coil-over applications ... just without the coil-over springs obviously. I prefer triple adjustable shocks, because we can dial in the handling much easier at the track.

Advanced shock tuning, building & understanding can be a little complex, but basic shock tuning is pretty simple. That's where I like new guys to start ... with a basic guideline ... tune from there ... and learn.

My basic shock tuning tips are:

If corner entry is tight or pushy:
* Soften compression in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks
* Stiffen compression in rear shocks

If corner entry is free or loose:
* Stiffen compression in front shocks
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks
* Soften compression in rear shocks

If corner roll through zone is tight or pushy:
* Stiffen rebound in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks

If corner roll through zone is free or loose:
* Soften rebound in front shocks
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks

If corner exit is tight or pushy:
* Stiffen rebound in front shocks
* Soften rebound in rear shocks
* Stiffen compression in rear shocks

If corner exit is free or loose:
* Stiffen rebound in rear shocks
* Soften compression in rear shocks
* Soften rebound in front shocks

You can see why we prefer having both compression & rebound adjustments available to us in the guide above. You loose about half of your tuning ability with a single adjustable shock. That's better than no adjustment, but get the triples if your budget can handle it. Note: If getting single adjustable shocks, rebound adjustment takes priority. Compression rate can be compensated for by changing spring rates. But the spring doesn't control rebound. Only the shock can do that.

There is more to it than this, but this general guideline helps a lot of shock tuning rookies get their cars handling very well. Correct shock tuning can dial in a car from "in the ball park" to "awesome" ... but shocks are not magic. Shock tuning won't fix incorrect front end geometry, alignment settings, imbalanced spring & sway bar rates front & rear, etc. Think of having the optimum shocks & valving ... and tuning those shocks ... as the final frontier in getting your car to handle excellent.

What Lance was referring to as "secret sauce" is special valving we do to Ridetech singles & triples ... and other brands of shocks ... to make the valving digressive (instead of linear) ... increase the rebound valving by triple in the range that affects handling ... without increasing the rebound any in the zone that affects bump control. Plus we build "high zero number" capability into the valving range, which lets us tie down an end of the car for brief, controlled periods of time.

In autocross, or on a road course, when you brake into the corner the braking force compresses the front suspension & springs ... lowering the mass/CG ... and if set-up correctly ... arrives at the optimum camber/caster/bump settings for maximum front tire grip. When a driver lifts off the brakes for the short roll through zone ... releasing the force holding the front end down there ... the stored spring energy wants to push the front end back up immediately. This instantly raises the mass/CG & takes the tires out of their optimum camber/caster/bump settings ... reducing front front tire grip ... which is why most full size cars push (understeer) mid-corner ... unless you lower the cornering speed.

With our secret sauce shocks, my clients can tune the low speed rebound knob on the front shocks (stiffer) ... to increase the zero number ... and actually keep the front end of the car down ... through the roll through zone of the corner ... after they step off the brakes. :)

It is worth quite a bit of corner speed, but just as importantly, makes the car more fun to drive. I see a lot of newbies make the incorrect assumption that their lack of experience means they should just "buy whatever" ... bolt it on their car, go drive & learn. I see them struggling at the tracks & autocross courses ... and not having a good time. How could they? It's not any fun driving a dump truck that plows through the corners ... until the back end snaps loose.

I see some good intentioned guys advise them to "just drive & learn" ... probably because that's how they did it. But I disagree with that strategy. It doesn't make any sense to learn how to drive a poor handling car. All the driver picks up is bad habits, that are hard to break later on. Plus it's frustrating. The driver sees their times WAY down on the lap time charts ... starts to question their ability ... gets frustrated ... and quits the sport. No one wants that.

I'm not suggesting that newbies need perfect handling cars right out of the gate. I developed race drivers for 13 years. I found rookies learn better driving skills ... ramp up quicker ... have more confidence ... and have more fun ... starting in a balanced car that handles neutral, turns well & brakes balanced. They'll learn how a ill-handling car feels from time to time when the track is out to lunch. Fine tuning & small changes to the car come as their skill, feel, knowledge and desire to go faster all increase together.

So Brian, and any other Newbies reading along with us, I urge you to get your car set up right from the start. That is more than buying quality bolt-on parts. That means getting your suspension set-up ...
* Balanced front/rear spring & sway bar rates
* Complimentary roll center heights & track widths
* Correct tire bias for the car's front/rear weight bias
* Camber, caster & toe settings for maximum contact patches
* Scaling to corner balance the car
* Calculating your car's total braking force & brake bias
... worked out as part of your build.

:cheers:

Sage advice there... ^

The whole post!