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Old 12-05-2011, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
I think the facts need to be checked before making statements like this. I'm not picking a fight with you personally -- but I hear this same crap all the time and it's just that. Pure crap.

There is a good article - that I found by simply asking GOOGLE - DO WEALTHY PEOPLE PAY LESS TAXES... and I picked kinda the first one on the list that looked legitimate.

Here's the link to that - and it's just one article of MANY.. that use FACTS (mostly the U.S. Governments own data) to dispel this misinformation.


http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...-taxes/245531/



Personally -- I live off my dividend and bond income, and income from an apartment complex... and yes -- it's a very large income. And yes - the taxes on dividends are "only" 15% (Qualified dividends) and the taxes on my MUNI BONDS are tax free. For that "tax free" status - I receive substantially less income (on a laddered bond portfolio I get about 4% in interest). Now -- I'm not going to write a book on INVESTING and returns and taxes etc. But I will tell you that if people like me didn't buy school bonds - and road improvement bonds etc... then you wouldn't be very happy because there'd be NO MONEY to build all that stuff you enjoy. There is a direct benefit to society by cities/counties/state governments paying a lower financing cost... In order to attract people to invest in these (bonds) - they come with the tax free status. BUT -- there's always a big BUTT in the room.... I'm an "investor".... some of those "investments" are complete busts... I don't get any write off for those. Oh yeah -- I can claim 3 grand a year - for about eternity... Some investments return some of my money after 4 or 5 years... and once in awhile you hit the mother lode. Now - I'm going to attempt to explain the VALUE to society with one of my latest "hits" as a real life example. An investment 6+ years ago in a start up that had about 50 employees - but was running low on cash - needed some "help" both financially and with management (that's what they get when guys like me invest - they get MONEY and they get BRAINS and they get CONNECTIONS). That company was sold last year when it had almost 500 employees -- 100 of which came away with ONE MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE.... Many more had somewhere less than a million bucks... some poor bastard might have "only" got half a million. What a shame. You know what? All of the cash was taxed at ORDINARY INCOME TAX RATES. The return on my initial investment was substantial -- it was taxed as LONG TERM CAPITAL GAINS (15%) -- but the other shares I owned were taxed at ordinary income. Several people could retire on what I paid in income taxes last year - and several more could on what my tax bill will be this year. If you want to calculate in absolute percentage terms I paid about 32%...


I guess this discussion is really about a battle between the haves and the have nots... and I just don't think it's as simple as that. There is a reason why people succeed and some don't. Education, willingness to 'gamble' on their careers (I know people that have turned down great opportunities because they didn't want to move)... willingness to learn... and grow...the ability to SEE the opportunity that is before them. Let's take a framer... some guys will always just be framers. What is it that separates them from the guy that started as a framer and is now a general contractor?

To me - it's kinda like the people that only see NASA as a giant play toy for the astronauts. They see no purpose in building things to fly to outer space. But others see it for all the "stuff" that they've invented during their attempts to do more and fly farther. I can't name 'em - but I know there's just a whole slew of stuff that we wouldn't have without NASA. Another example is auto racing. Many people just see it as a giant toy box - yet "we" here know about the stuff they do that trickles down to todays cars.

It's just never as simple as "1% vs the 99%".... or the "I pay more (or less) taxes than someone else".


Hope that makes some "sense"... sometimes there just isn't a good or perfect explanation. This isn't the old communist China... where you had the rulers that lived like kings and "everybody else". It's America... there's a reward for risk - there's "incentives" to invest - there's opportunity to change your own life. Sometimes those risks/changes don't work out... some people get up and do it all over again - some give up and whine - some keep walkin' around wishin' and hoping' but never taking action. Some just blame others for their lives not going per their dreams.
very well said Greg.
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