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Originally Posted by Mkelcy
You missed my point. You DO need to modify/replace the front suspension on a first generation Camaro to get it to handle well. However, there is often a suggestion in this thread and others discussing the latest new part that, unless you have the part on your car, you can't be (1) fast, or (2) a real pro-touring car. See for example:
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Originally Posted by EFI
I don't need this part, but I want it, and here's my reason why -
I'm building a PT car. And I'm building a PT car cuz I love the looks of the early camaro, firebird, nova, chevelle, cuda and others. But, with a stock front-end most of them handle like either a shopping cart or a tour bus.
I want the best of both worlds; the looks of a early muscle car and the handling of a modern day vette. - Dan
Bolding added by Mkelcy.
Somehow I don't think my G'modded, delrin bushed, Hotchkis sprung and swayed, fast steering box equipped stock subframed front end handles "like either a shopping cart or a tour bus." To suggest that it does is simply silly and/or ignorant. Similarly, a car using the ATS spindle or the SC&C tall ball joints/control arms, in each case on an otherwise stock subframe, can be made to handle extremely well.
If someone wants to say "I'm getting X subframe because it: (1) looks killer, (2) may be a slight improvement over what I could do with a stock sub, (3) shows I have money to burn, (4) is all the rage, (5) is a well made piece that I want on my car, even though not a big improvement in functionality, (6) allows me bigger front tires than I could otherwise mount," I'm cool with all of it. But if someone says "I'm getting X subframe because it is the only/best way I can make my car handle," then I'm sorry, they're simply ill-informed.
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I think my reply was some what taken out of context. I was responding to being told by someone that "nobody needs this stuff" (and that anyone who buys it is a "sucker.") In my reply I was simply generalization towards being told - I didn't *need* something, and I was clarifying I didn't *need* it I simply wanted it and why *I* wanted it.
As I stated before, I'm fairly new to the PT world. But, I do have experience in the bike and boating worlds, two places where aftermarket parts make a big difference in performance, especially in steering/handling.
My bro had a '70 Nova and my best friend had a '71 Chevelle, both handled poorly with stock front-ends when compared to a 2006 Vette or Audi S4. Maybe it's a stretch to think my car will be able to burn up the mountain passes like a 2006 Vette, but it's what I'm shooting for, and I'm looking for a solution that will get me as close to that as possible.
Clearly a DSE subframe is not the only choice out there, and maybe after I've looked at all the options it won't turn out to be my first choice.
I've learned a ton of useful info from this thread, so thanks again to the people who have provided data and technical info.
- Dan