Vorshlag Build Thread - 69 Camaro Pro Touring/Track Car

[Build-It-Break-it]

This build is inane! Great work buy your shop. I don't see a stereo installed tho?

[rustomatic]

My wife wants to go to Versailles (not the one in Kentucky, no offense to Kentuckians). I just want to visit Vorshlag. Keep rockin' this awesomeness, Terry and Co! Your work is creative and inspiring, hopefully to the extent that people don't only look here because of the word Camaro. There's just nothing but awesomeness here--pat your fabricator (and engineering brains) on the back a few extra times next week!

[fleetus macmullitz]

Amazing just amazing!

In any form it should be at SEMA imho.

[WSSix]

The customer was right. That spine between the ducting out of the radiator looks great. I think maybe it's because it ties into the spine of the hood. Fantastic work as always guys.

I'm guessing the owner of this car has more experience with racing than the owner of Chainsaw?

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by WSSix

...I'm guessing the owner of this car has more experience with racing than the owner of Chainsaw?

Yes, the owner of the Camaro has tracked some high powered cars similar to this build, along with some fast Porsche models and a well prepared Miata. He's not a stranger to fast laps on the track. And I suspect an upgraded engine will eventually be on the menu after he gets used to the car.

[WSSix]

That's good to hear.

Which do you think will prove to be the faster car? Chainsaw or this one?

Thanks Jason.

[S.White]

Originally Posted by WSSix

That's good to hear.

Which do you think will prove to be the faster car? Chainsaw or this one?

Thanks Jason.

Are you referring to the Chainsaw Mouse or Chainsaw Massacre? (The Chainsaw Mouse is a Miata that Vorshlag built for the same customer previously) I believe the Chainsaw Massacre should prove to be much faster with equal conditions, driver, etc. The Camaro will be down on power by over 200hp, has less tire, no IRS, and I'd bet much more drag. Weight may be similar but I think the Camaro will end up heavier. So, the guys at the shop may chime in with more insight but the lap time difference could be pretty significant at a big track.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by S.White

...I believe the Chainsaw Massacre should prove to be much faster with equal conditions, driver, etc. The Camaro will be down on power by over 200hp, has less tire, no IRS, and I'd bet much more drag. Weight may be similar but I think the Camaro will end up heavier...

^^^ The owner of the Camaro has a good handle on what it takes to go fast on track. And he's right, that the higher drag and smaller engine in the Camaro will likely result in slower laps than the Chainsaw Massacre. The BMW is also being built with some more tech in it, in addition to the suspension. It's getting some traction control and Motorsports ABS. But, it won't ever be as cool as a '69 Camaro.

[WSSix]

Originally Posted by S.White

Are you referring to the Chainsaw Mouse or Chainsaw Massacre? (The Chainsaw Mouse is a Miata that Vorshlag built for the same customer previously) I believe the Chainsaw Massacre should prove to be much faster with equal conditions, driver, etc. The Camaro will be down on power by over 200hp, has less tire, no IRS, and I'd bet much more drag. Weight may be similar but I think the Camaro will end up heavier. So, the guys at the shop may chime in with more insight but the lap time difference could be pretty significant at a big track.

Massacre, the BMW. I had forgotten the Miata was also Chainsaw.


Honestly, I couldn't remember if the Camaro and BMW were even built to compete in the same classes and didn't want to take the time to dig into. I was just virtual bench racing

Love both these builds.

[Fair]

Originally Posted by S.White

Are you referring to the Chainsaw Mouse or Chainsaw Massacre? (The Chainsaw Mouse is a Miata that Vorshlag built for the same customer previously) I believe the Chainsaw Massacre should prove to be much faster with equal conditions, driver, etc. The Camaro will be down on power by over 200hp, has less tire, no IRS, and I'd bet much more drag. Weight may be similar but I think the Camaro will end up heavier. So, the guys at the shop may chime in with more insight but the lap time difference could be pretty significant at a big track.

(S.White is the '69 Camaro's owner, BTW!)



I don't know... it might be really close, other than the "initial motor" (crate LS3) in the Camaro. Don't count out your car just yet!



The Camaro weighed in at 2329 when we added the rear wing, back in the summer (the build thread is still months behind real time). That's with everything in there minus seats, plumbing, wiring, fiberglass doors. I still think we'll be close to my initial 2500 pound estimate.



The BMW M3 "Chainsaw Massacre" is only barely further along than the Camaro (we didn't have to build the chassis from scratch) and I'm worried it will be 100-200 pounds heavier. I might go put it on the scales today to see. This is also anything but svelte! The big flares and such are going to cause some aero drag. Since you both like to drive at COTA so much we might have to have a track shootout! What could be more fun than taking two badass cars onto an F1 track and dueling it out???



The "Chainsaw Mouse" that SW is referring to is the '03 Miata above, which we built as a track trainer for the owner of the M3. Notice the chainsaw wielding, hockey mask wearing 'mouse' graphic on the hood? This car was built to help refine his track driving skills without ABS, traction control, or any real horse power. He has driven this many miles with driver coaches, data logging and review, etc. Now his wife and son are getting laps in this little car, too.



We sort of ...refused to start the build on the crazy V8 M3 until he bought or built a track trainer like this, and then got a lot of seat time in it. He agreed and let us build a safe, nice handling, dual purpose street/track Miata for him over a year ago. Full cage, race seats, belts, oil/cooling upgrades, MCS 2-way dampers, sticky street tires, bars, bushings - the works. But it has roll up windows, AC and is street legal. Its very much NOT a "spec Miata", which as a spec includes a mess of lower end parts, if you ask me.



He also had track experience in this 638 whp Roush Mustang, which we upgraded in many ways. This thing is a missile - and he called it "Chainsaw"... so you see where the naming on his cars comes from.



After seeing so many faster customers' cars being built in my shop, I figured that I need a "big power" car again myself, so I bought the 07 C6 Z06 chassis (above left) earlier this year. We've stripped it down to 1662 pounds but ran out of time and money to go much further for now (I'm building a new building for Vorshlag, which takes all of my money!) The little red BMW 330 (above right) is what I've been racing the last 2 seasons and will continue into next year. We just added a full aero package so I'm moving up 2 classes this weekend racing at NOLA with NASA. Damn it hurts not having power tho...

Gotta run, just thought I'd clear up some of the "chainsaw" confusion!