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Old 07-01-2019, 10:33 AM
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anguilla1980 anguilla1980 is offline
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Default 69 F-body - Rear sway + leaf springs?

On my 1969 Firebird I have new Hotchkis everything plus CalTracs and a new Ford 9" based rear axle w/Caltracs perches. Literally, the only things I have left to upgrade suspension wise are adding the Hotchkis handle bars and sway bars. Yes, I know leafs SUCK for handling but I'm doing things in stages as years go on so it's just what I must work with right now. A 4-link and adjustable coil overs will be in my future, but that future is about 3 years off or more

On to my question. It's been suggested to me that adding a rear sway bar to a car with leaf springs can be dangerous, and that the twisting of the leafs already acts as a rear sway. This makes a little sense to me, especially with the CalTracs keeping leaf wrap under control which is reducing twist even more due to their mounting plates.

Is that the general consensus here as well? Will I have a dangerous oversteer problem by adding a rear sway? For that matter, will upgrading the stock front sway be too much and cause an understeer condition that's dangerous? I'm looking for a nice balance here of course, a very controllable slight oversteer is my personal preference.

Also, what about adding the Hotchkis upper rear shock brace? Now that I think of it, I don't have that either. Or will that also remove too much flex with the leaf springs?

Sorry, I know leaf springs must be a dirty word on here and this is the first car I've ever had with them so it's a learning experience for me.



EDIT: Upon more research, it looks like the fays2 watts link is the hot ticket to getting my leaf spring rear to handle better. Can that be used in conjuntion with a rear sway? If so, who makes on that will clear it for a 1st gen f-body?


EDIT 2: I've stumbled upon spherical bushings for leafs as well. Specifically the Hotchkis Swivel Max and conical type high articulation shackles, very sweet. Global West sells a similar kits and calls it Cat5 Bearing Kit. Question: With CalTracs, is it OK to use the Swivel Max on the front of the spring instead of the supplied solid aluminum bushing? Seems to me it would still mitgate wheel hop just as much while also providing the deseried increased articulation. Win- win, right?


Thanks!
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1969 Pontiac Firebird w/535ci IAII aluminum block, Dailey dry sump, Holley EFI (full road race build). Primer black w/black interior.
1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.

Last edited by anguilla1980; 07-01-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anguilla1980 View Post
On my 1969 Firebird I have new Hotchkis everything plus CalTracs and a new Ford 9" based rear axle w/Caltracs perches. Literally, the only things I have left to upgrade suspension wise are adding the Hotchkis handle bars and sway bars. Yes, I know leafs SUCK for handling but I'm doing things in stages as years go on so it's just what I must work with right now. A 4-link and adjustable coil overs will be in my future, but that future is about 3 years off or more

On to my question. It's been suggested to me that adding a rear sway bar to a car with leaf springs can be dangerous, and that the twisting of the leafs already acts as a rear sway. This makes a little sense to me, especially with the CalTracs keeping leaf wrap under control which is reducing twist even more due to their mounting plates.

Is that the general consensus here as well? Will I have a dangerous oversteer problem by adding a rear sway? For that matter, will upgrading the stock front sway be too much and cause an understeer condition that's dangerous? I'm looking for a nice balance here of course, a very controllable slight oversteer is my personal preference.

Also, what about adding the Hotchkis upper rear shock brace? Now that I think of it, I don't have that either. Or will that also remove too much flex with the leaf springs?

Sorry, I know leaf springs must be a dirty word on here and this is the first car I've ever had with them so it's a learning experience for me.



EDIT: Upon more research, it looks like the fays2 watts link is the hot ticket to getting my leaf spring rear to handle better. Can that be used in conjuntion with a rear sway? If so, who makes on that will clear it for a 1st gen f-body?


EDIT 2: I've stumbled upon spherical bushings for leafs as well. Specifically the Hotchkis Swivel Max and conical type high articulation shackles, very sweet. Global West sells a similar kits and calls it Cat5 Bearing Kit. Question: With CalTracs, is it OK to use the Swivel Max on the front of the spring instead of the supplied solid aluminum bushing? Seems to me it would still mitgate wheel hop just as much while also providing the deseried increased articulation. Win- win, right?


Thanks!
I was much faster on my Leafs in my 2nd gen than I am now with my Detroit Spped rear, now the car is better than me.

IIRC, Gaetano on here, was or is running a 69 with leafs. I know he's active on IG

Ask him if you can
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:42 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something here. You said you wanted to install a 4 link and coilovers so why waste time and money trying to get the leaf springs to work better?
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Last edited by TheJDMan; 07-16-2019 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:17 PM
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I went with the Hotchkis springs (2407c) + Global West cat-5 spherical bushing kit (115SH) + CalTracs (2301).

This should compliment nicely my Hotchkis SFCs, shocks, and my new Ford 9".

I'm still unclear if I will need to add a rear sway. I know that a Panhard bar is not recommened with the cat-5 bushings and that also a Watts link will be no longer needed.


I didn't go with composite leafs because I have too much power for them. I went with the Hotchkis leafs over the GW cat-5 leaf due to the lower spring rate. When drag racing, I'll have the CalTracs setup properly, when road racing I'll have them loose.
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1969 Pontiac Firebird w/535ci IAII aluminum block, Dailey dry sump, Holley EFI (full road race build). Primer black w/black interior.
1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.

Last edited by anguilla1980; 07-11-2019 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:18 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something here. You said you wanted to install a 4 link and coilovers so why waste time and money trying to get the leaf springs to work better?

You are missing where I said that is years away. Thanks.
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1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:39 PM
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I didn't miss that part, the more money you spend now on leafs the longer it will take to save for the 4 link later. Besides, the money you have already spent on leaves would probably have paid for a substancial part of the 4 link. Nothing like paying twice but hey, it's your money.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:42 PM
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anguilla1980 anguilla1980 is offline
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It's not just about the $$$ for the parts. My car is totally assembled. It's considerable labor to remove the interior and do all of the fab work/welding involved, especially when I can't weld and have to pay a shop.

For me, it makes more sense to wait a few years and maybe do min-tubs too at the same time.

If my car were a project in progress then I would fully agree with you.
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1992 Pontiac Trans Am GTA w/SLP Performance Package. Dark Jade Grey Metallic, grey leather, T-Tops.
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