...

Go Back   Lateral-g Forums > Lateral-G Open Discussions > Open Discussion
User Name
Password



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-26-2018, 04:22 PM
FETorino's Avatar
FETorino FETorino is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 2,705
Thanks: 59
Thanked 62 Times in 20 Posts
Default

There is one guy who owns this mess, ONE, and his name isn't Greg; well technically he does own an oily mess but more on that later.

A quick grab of facts from the 70 pages of build thread. Putting things in writing is neat isn't it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
Preston, you are spot on in many ways.

This Wide-Body 70 Fastback Mustang body did not exist before this. But in my 35+ years of racing & building race industry relationships ... I've learned who can do what ... and do it well ... versus those that are full of bulls@#$.


Normally it takes 3-4 months to have an entire "regular" fiberglass body ... shell, doors, front end, hood, scoop, dash, decklid, etc .... built. The error we made was thinking we could build a full custom widened car ... with rocker skirts, flush glass, wicked air dam & hood scoop blended ... in the same time. We didn't. It took 6 months for the shell & the rest will be 7 months.

So it shortened the time we have to build the car to 4 months. Most people would be panic'd. But not my crew. This is old hat to us.


The target is to be running a private test day on track at the end of June. We got this.

Kinda funny, or sad reading that first quote now.

We got this; or not so much; even with a do over a month later.
No mystery on the timeline. No concern either; even time for a trip to Yosemite. Your posts then we're cavalier and Boastful.
Greg wasn't pushing you to the deadline but you were pushing the sales hype of completing the build in that time frame.
It would have been a huge win to pull it off but it was your gamble and you flamed out, so own it.
Seems like you WERE a car builder; what changed? You should be more clear on what you were, what you professed to be and what you actually are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
Some of you may not have realized on our shake down day the car wasn't ready to race or run many laps because the interior tin wasn't sealed & the exhaust wasn't thermal barrier coated.

The cockpit needs to be fully sealed from the engine bay & fuel cell area. We use a 3M Fire Retardant Sealer good up to 2000°.

The Mustang comes apart late this week to go to powder coat. In our Track-Warrior cars like Greg's ... the steel floor, firewall & bulkhead/rear deck sheet metal are welded to the chassis ... and get powder coated along with the chassis & cage assembly. When it goes back together for final assembly, will utilize the 3M Fire Retardant Sealer on every seam under the car, at the firewall & at the rear bulkhead & decklid sheet metal. This prevents C0², smoke, oil, fire, etc from entering into the cockpit.

I'm outlining this important step, because many of you already have, or will, modify the sheet metal in your builds & NEED TO KNOW it's critical to seal it & what to use. It's NOT OK to leave any seam unsealed. It's unsafe.


The car will go back together later this month & get ready to go run the NASA event at Thunderhill Raceway in Willows California on Aug 4-5.

Our driver Benny Moon is super talented, but hasn't been in a real race car is many years, so he'll need to shake off the rust as we work up to speed.
Benny seems to be a great guy. Definitely talented. I'm not sure why Ron put his life at risk over the course of 4 track days on two separate weekends because the cockpit wasn't even close to sealed.

I'm sure a lot of people would miss Benny. Your opinion on sealing, just reminding you of it; it shouldn't be your opinion only when convenient.

It seems the marketing aspect of getting a wrap and powder coat on the car so it would photograph well, even if in person it was somewhat below standard, was priority one.

I don't think it's entirely fair to some of the members of Rons crew who genuinely seem to be good guys, albeit NOT engine builders or mechanics that understood how to go about diagnosing and fixing the oiling issue with the car, that they are being dragged down by Rons ego and mismanagement of this build.

Ron got it partially right in his post about owning the mess he made of this build. He certainly didn't sell his failure as hard as he sells his parts. He certainly didn't accept the responsibility like he accepts praise.

He didn't portray accurately how much he oversold his ability to put together a team and manage a project and how much HE really didn't know about the motor and it's oiling system or dry sump oiling in general. The first day was Friday and the dry sump manufacturer was within driving distance and I'm sure available for a call. It could only be his ego that kept that from happening.

I like to think Ron was a decent guy who was the victim of his own hype and got caught up in a suspension god complex.

Part of it may have been wanting to do the right thing and making commitments he knew he couldn't follow through on. I know that happened to me. Ron didn't steal from me but I mistakenly waited for a piece from him that he should have just said straight up I would need to make,or if I wasn't willing to make, he'd take back the part.

Or maybe he just didn't want to deal with returning a prat that really didn't work and hoped I'd go away.

At the time I thought it was the first scenario. Now I'm leaning towards the second.

In the end HE not only ruined Gregs build but also dragged some guys trying to do the right thing through the mud. I was pretty disappointed in how Ron acted twords Greg but I am just as disappointed about him putting some of his guys in a position where they were in over their head and set up for failure. I don't think they deserve the bad press for Rons BS.

For Christs sake Ron, take responsibility, fall on your sword and be faithful to your guys who genuinely tried to mop up your mess (mainly oil with a hint of Burt wire). Don't drag them down with you.

As one of the people there I had no ill will twords the crew; some of us may have, but honestly it seemed all of us, as hands on guys (+Dave), were just frustrated with the lack of a proper game plan. This shouldn't reflect on most of those people who work hard and can deliver a good product within their own field of specialty. I have a great gear set up in my race car thanks to Boris. The car wasn't total ****, there was some nice work on the car. Personally I just wanted to call time out and give the crew a new play to run rather than watching them repeat the same drill and expect a different result.

Seriously Ron. Take a step back and really address what you are doing wrong. It's not a Frank type of integrity issue but it is an integrity issue; it's an ownership of responsibility integrity issue. Accept it and fix it. Then you have something to offer people.
__________________
Rob in SoCal

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...10645&page=171


Last edited by FETorino; 08-26-2018 at 06:21 PM.
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to FETorino For This Useful Post:
96z28ss (08-28-2018), bulldog19 (08-26-2018), DBasher (08-26-2018), Flash68 (08-26-2018), GregWeld (08-26-2018), jarhead (08-26-2018), Matt@BOS (08-27-2018), Ns RS (08-27-2018), Sieg (08-30-2018), Stuart Adams (08-26-2018), Ummgawa (08-27-2018)
  #52  
Old 08-29-2018, 11:28 AM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,642
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,076 Times in 384 Posts
Default Caught yet again......

After all the info that had flowed to me regarding “less than stellar parts and services” ...... a friend of our Lat-G community found this.

Same pattern of “marketing” vs facts.


https://www.courtlistener.com/pdf/20...n_sutton_1.pdf
  #53  
Old 08-29-2018, 02:56 PM
Peter McMahon Peter McMahon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 56
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Default

When you getting your 80g’s back!
  #54  
Old 08-29-2018, 04:49 PM
214Chevy's Avatar
214Chevy 214Chevy is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: DALLAS, Texas
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 283
Thanked 536 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
After all the info that had flowed to me regarding “less than stellar parts and services” ...... a friend of our Lat-G community found this.

Same pattern of “marketing” vs facts.


https://www.courtlistener.com/pdf/20...n_sutton_1.pdf
Wow!! This thing is getting juicer by the post...I mean episode. It's like a great TV show where you can't wait until next week to see what happens.
__________________
'68 C10 swb
'69 Camaro convertible
'72 Chevelle

  #55  
Old 08-29-2018, 05:55 PM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,642
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,076 Times in 384 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter McMahon View Post
When you getting your 80g’s back!


He said he was going to repay me! I'm sure of it!! Everything else he's said has been spot on!

LOL
  #56  
Old 08-29-2018, 06:34 PM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,642
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,076 Times in 384 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 214Chevelle View Post
Wow!! This thing is getting juicer by the post...I mean episode. It's like a great TV show where you can't wait until next week to see what happens.

You're only seeing about 10% of what I'm working on.... It's going to get MUCH better.... Well.... better depends on which side you're on.
  #57  
Old 08-29-2018, 09:05 PM
Che70velle's Avatar
Che70velle Che70velle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dawsonville Georgia
Posts: 2,219
Thanks: 609
Thanked 157 Times in 109 Posts
Default

This “enlightenment” reiterates the reason why Greg brought the issues to light, to begin with. Greg being the standup guy he is, was looking out for his friends here, and potential future “mistakes”. I’m certain that had Greg known then what he knows now, this thread wouldn’t exist.
I’ve seen many shirts, license plates, etc. that read “Friends don’t let Friends Drive Fords”. While I have nothing against fords...I’ve owned several...I do have friends that are worth protecting, and standing up for. So does Greg.
Sounds like we’re still in the shallow end of this mess...
__________________
Scott
---------------------------------------------------------------
70 velle' on custom chassis w/custom RideTech coilovers, RED sleeved 434” with Mamo 265’s, F-body Magnum, 12 bolt 3:73, wilwood 6/4's, bla, bla, bla...build. thread https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=39631
New 434” engine build here https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ved-block.html

Thanks Dad!!

My Chevelle is old school... It has a belt driven power steering pump.
They're 17's, but I keep em clean!
The Following User Says Thank You to Che70velle For This Useful Post:
GregWeld (08-30-2018)
  #58  
Old 08-29-2018, 11:01 PM
Flash68's Avatar
Flash68 Flash68 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NorCal
Posts: 9,145
Thanks: 58
Thanked 158 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FETorino View Post
There is one guy who owns this mess, ONE, and his name isn't Greg; well technically he does own an oily mess but more on that later.

A quick grab of facts from the 70 pages of build thread. Putting things in writing is neat isn't it.



Kinda funny, or sad reading that first quote now.

We got this; or not so much; even with a do over a month later.
No mystery on the timeline. No concern either; even time for a trip to Yosemite. Your posts then we're cavalier and Boastful.
Greg wasn't pushing you to the deadline but you were pushing the sales hype of completing the build in that time frame.
It would have been a huge win to pull it off but it was your gamble and you flamed out, so own it.
Seems like you WERE a car builder; what changed? You should be more clear on what you were, what you professed to be and what you actually are.



Benny seems to be a great guy. Definitely talented. I'm not sure why Ron put his life at risk over the course of 4 track days on two separate weekends because the cockpit wasn't even close to sealed.

I'm sure a lot of people would miss Benny. Your opinion on sealing, just reminding you of it; it shouldn't be your opinion only when convenient.

It seems the marketing aspect of getting a wrap and powder coat on the car so it would photograph well, even if in person it was somewhat below standard, was priority one.

I don't think it's entirely fair to some of the members of Rons crew who genuinely seem to be good guys, albeit NOT engine builders or mechanics that understood how to go about diagnosing and fixing the oiling issue with the car, that they are being dragged down by Rons ego and mismanagement of this build.

Ron got it partially right in his post about owning the mess he made of this build. He certainly didn't sell his failure as hard as he sells his parts. He certainly didn't accept the responsibility like he accepts praise.

He didn't portray accurately how much he oversold his ability to put together a team and manage a project and how much HE really didn't know about the motor and it's oiling system or dry sump oiling in general. The first day was Friday and the dry sump manufacturer was within driving distance and I'm sure available for a call. It could only be his ego that kept that from happening.

I like to think Ron was a decent guy who was the victim of his own hype and got caught up in a suspension god complex.

Part of it may have been wanting to do the right thing and making commitments he knew he couldn't follow through on. I know that happened to me. Ron didn't steal from me but I mistakenly waited for a piece from him that he should have just said straight up I would need to make,or if I wasn't willing to make, he'd take back the part.

Or maybe he just didn't want to deal with returning a prat that really didn't work and hoped I'd go away.

At the time I thought it was the first scenario. Now I'm leaning towards the second.

In the end HE not only ruined Gregs build but also dragged some guys trying to do the right thing through the mud. I was pretty disappointed in how Ron acted twords Greg but I am just as disappointed about him putting some of his guys in a position where they were in over their head and set up for failure. I don't think they deserve the bad press for Rons BS.

For Christs sake Ron, take responsibility, fall on your sword and be faithful to your guys who genuinely tried to mop up your mess (mainly oil with a hint of Burt wire). Don't drag them down with you.

As one of the people there I had no ill will twords the crew; some of us may have, but honestly it seemed all of us, as hands on guys (+Dave), were just frustrated with the lack of a proper game plan. This shouldn't reflect on most of those people who work hard and can deliver a good product within their own field of specialty. I have a great gear set up in my race car thanks to Boris. The car wasn't total ****, there was some nice work on the car. Personally I just wanted to call time out and give the crew a new play to run rather than watching them repeat the same drill and expect a different result.

Seriously Ron. Take a step back and really address what you are doing wrong. It's not a Frank type of integrity issue but it is an integrity issue; it's an ownership of responsibility integrity issue. Accept it and fix it. Then you have something to offer people.
If you put as much time and effort on your car projects as you did this post.. man, just think what you could accomplish!
__________________
2004 NASA AIX Mustang LS2 #14
1964 Lincoln Continental
2014 4 tap Keezer
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Flash68 For This Useful Post:
FETorino (08-30-2018), GregWeld (08-30-2018), Spiffav8 (09-16-2018)
  #59  
Old 08-30-2018, 05:40 PM
raustinss raustinss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kitchener ,Ontario
Posts: 802
Thanks: 50
Thanked 77 Times in 61 Posts
Default

I still want a "loan" from Greg to finish my chevelle ... I mean to open my business..ya .. open a business thoughts Greg ????
  #60  
Old 08-30-2018, 06:09 PM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,642
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,076 Times in 384 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raustinss View Post
I still want a "loan" from Greg to finish my chevelle ... I mean to open my business..ya .. open a business thoughts Greg ????
Some loan "pre-quals":


#1 - You must be an expert at everything

#2 - You'll have to create a phony history

#3 - You'll have to be able to stretch a 3 hour seminar to 10

#4 - You must be an expert name dropper
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Lateral-g.net