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  #11  
Old 10-21-2005, 11:48 AM
Mean 69 Mean 69 is offline
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Quote:
Are you going to be doing anything with A-bodys
Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:48 PM
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radrambler radrambler is offline
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Originally Posted by markss28
I saw your car and I like the way you have your set up. It really doesnt look to complicated. Did you have to cut up any of your floor?
in my application of the "torque arm" suspension setup i did NOT want to cut the floor BUT WANTED GREAT HANDLING .thats why the arm was fabbed to fit .instead of using something that was designed for another car and modified. it attaches with bushed endes that are adjustable at the housing and at the trans cross member.ALMOST WENT WITH ACTUALL THREE LINK BUT SPACE WAS SO CLOSE TO MESSING WITH FUNCTION.SO MY CHASSIS GUY SAID THIS IS THE NEXT BEST THING
this is not aN ACTUALL "three link" even though it attaches the rear end at three points to the chassis.
MEAN69 IS CORRECT...THE "THREE LINK" LETS THE REAR PIVOT FROM THE REAREND TOP LINK ALSO MINE DOESNOT .....

WHAT EVER YOU USE, GET SOMEONE WITH GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF HOW SUSPENSIONS WORK AND HOW TO FABRICATE THAT WILL SAVE YOU TIME AND HEADACHE....
GOODLUCK

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  #13  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mean 69
Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark
LOOKS LIKE NICE PRODUCTS......WISH YOU GREAT SUCCESS
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:15 PM
TravisB TravisB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean 69
Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark
Cool....that is a nice looking piece mark welds look nice! I was just wondering seems like the camaros are always taken car of first then companys usually start on other stuff I was just interested in what else you had in mind.

Thanks for the info MARK good luck, products look nice!
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2005, 07:43 PM
race-rodz race-rodz is offline
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just outa curiousity.... what kinda products for early mustangs are ya thinkin about?
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2005, 10:24 AM
Mean 69 Mean 69 is offline
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Rodz, at this point we have a couple of ideas in concept only. It would be natural for us to do a three link derived off of the F body deal, and we will most likely do that, but the front stuff is a bit different due to the "fixed" front frame. The stock frame structure is decent enough to build off of, thankfully, but it might make better sense when we look deeper into it to remove the front and replace with a new setup. It will certainly be a front steer rack and pinion based unit, and rather than design a system "around" an off the shelf rack, our approach is to start with the suspension, and then develop a rack to compliment "it." If you have ideas, we'd love to hear about them.

The early Mustangs make terrific track cars due to their light weight. It makes everything a lot easier, you don't need as much power, brakes become more effective, etc. There are lot of them too, especially coupes. I can't think of a better supported car in terms of replacement parts (i.e. body panels, trim pieces, etc), so it kind of baffles me why there aren't more of them in the "PT" theme. We have a 65 Fastback, but that car will likely be prepared in vintage legal trim next year, so when it comes time for product development, we will likely do a mid 60's coupe.

Mark
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2005, 01:28 PM
race-rodz race-rodz is offline
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welllllllll.......... here is my $.02 on the mustang idea.... and i just happen have my 64 1/2 coupe sittin up on the chassis table right now. initially i thought about doin the SN65 treatment(full sn95 "pan"), ... but finally decided against it for a few reasons. so im bck to square one.

now this is really a backburner project, as my 34 truck is priority after paying jobs.... so i have been mostly thinkin about different ways of doin it.

i have a few priorities with the project that seem to be the biggest problem, #1, the car will be a daily driver, weekend autocross/track car. #2, the car will be really low... most mustangs are usually about 1-2" lower than stock, mine should sit about 3-4" lower than stock.

the first problem i have with the early mustang platform........ is the complete lack of anything structural....... frame connectors are at best just a bandaid for the piss poor structural design. the fixed front rails are really nothin more than 16-18ga sheetmetal, and really rely on the shock towers and the rest to hold it all together....as its a true unibody. an aftermarket weld in crossmember that gets rid of the shock towers has got to be one of the "sketchiest" things that can be done to the early mustangs, granted for 99% of the people that just "cruise" their cars.... its more than enough, not for me.

well for my project i already decided it will use a 3 link on a sn 8.8 (track width will be more as i want minor flares) i really like the design of the top mount that you have pictured... so something similar will be worked out for this car. the rear is the easy part.... now working forward. a complete chassis stiffening kit, similar to what mustangs plus sells, ties the rockers to the t-boxes f&r, then ties back to the frame connectors. it also increases the size and effectivness of the the front torque boxes....and drasticaly increases the strength of the rockers... which in any unibody car are extremly inportant.

now that we have the chassis rigid from the firewall back we start with the front frame "stub"... and this is the point where i am at on the mental drawing board. ideally you would make something that ties into the factory rails...unfortunatly, they are way too thin to tie anything into... and without the towers...they are nothin more than sheetmetal spot welded to the floor pan.... so in reality.... the stub would need to be constructed with the sfc's as part of it. the front of the stub would triangulate back to the top of the beefed up t-box.

for front suspension i was planning on a sn based "k-member" converted to sla setup, and use a hub carrier type upright, so 13"sn cobra brakes could be used.

the main downfall to this whole set-up is gonna be added weight, and obviously install. i cant see the weight difference being more than 100-150 lbs, after the stock "everything" is gone and new "everything" fabbed up outa lil heavier material, i think its a small price to pay for a stable and rigid platform without a full cage. the install is what the real killer is, as there is nothing "bolt-on" about it, major welding and fitting issues will prohibit the average guy from stepping up to the whole system. where this isnt a big deal for me in my one off situation, it would be for 99% of potential customers.

this really sounds overkill...and probably is. but IMHO early mustangs are crap, they were the geo metros of the 60's never ment to become true muscle cars, so by expecting them to handle and perform with todays "standards" the entire system needs a complete rework.

i have driven quite a few early mustangs, one of which was a gt350 coupe(1 of 6).... i got to flog it around the kart track(our local autocross venue), and while the car was better set-up for road racing than my car, i found it to have the same "issues" with chassis flex and poor steering, inconsistant "feeling" etc....as EVERY early mustang i have ever driven with "stock" chassis config. so yeah.... overkill for one guy...means its just about right for someone like me

anyway...these are just my ideas.... i cant wait to hear what you have in store....... as you said...there really is no "support" for the early mustang crowd. (im leaving out 1 place.... as i dont like them, after talkin on the phone with them, gxxxxs motorsports can kiss my a$$)
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2005, 04:11 PM
MadMax MadMax is offline
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Mark,

How much is the 3-link going to cost? Is it a SEMA secret ?

Also, I know this is kind of branching off from the whole topic here, but how would this affect a car that is drag raced? Also how would it compare DSE's 4 link for auto-x and drag racing?

I know there is a very complicated answer there, and many don't want to compare products...

Thanks in advance.
Max
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2005, 04:28 AM
Jasper Jones Jasper Jones is offline
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Along with the above questions, how much of the floor would have to be modified in a Camaro to run your three link set-up? Can I still use my factory back seat? Thanks
-Jason
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2005, 06:50 AM
Mean 69 Mean 69 is offline
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Without question, the early Mustang leave a LOT to be desired in terms of chassis rigidity. For serious track duty, a full cage and "real" subframe connectors are in order. I know exactly what you are talking about in regards to the front frame rails, there are some super thin extensions that come off of the front frame horns, kind of silly how they did that, but the cars weren't designed to rip through turns with contemporary tires, as you stated. The good thing is that even though you will add weight to stiffen things up, at least the car is light to begin with.

Pricing on the setup is not set in stone at this point, we have a good idea where it will be, but haven't firmly set retail pricing as of today. I will say that it will be competitively priced relative to other "like" systems that are available, when you consider everything that is included (all brackets and hardware, fully welded rear end housing assembly, coil-over shocks and springs). This setup will not be for everyone, you will need to do some cutting of the car to install the forward crossmember, and to make room for the upper link. You can use "a" back seat, but not "the" stock back seat, at least not in the first gen Camaros. The seat will require split seat bottoms, like in a secong gen F body, or a late model F body, in order to clear the tunnel extension box (for the upper link).

Our opinion is that this setup offers the highest performance potential of any commercially available rigid axle suspension system on the market, period. We are very close to finishing the product brochure, so hopefully some of the questions will be answered in that text. Also, we hope to have at least a temporary website on line in the next day or two with more info, and more pic's. Sorry for the general comments at this time, very specific info is coming soon, in great detail.

Mark
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