...

Go Back   Lateral-g Forums > Technical Discussions > Transmission and Rear End
User Name
Password



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-13-2012, 02:37 PM
Vegas69's Avatar
Vegas69 Vegas69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,663
Thanks: 86
Thanked 210 Times in 119 Posts
Default

When I said to good, I meant no way in hell I'd be able to compromise the part. That's EXACTLY what I want.
__________________
Todd
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-13-2012, 02:54 PM
ccracin's Avatar
ccracin ccracin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rostraver, PA
Posts: 2,067
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
If it's good enough for a ZR1 it's to good for me.
It's hard to argue that!
__________________
Chad
Instagram - @cctek
https://https://www.facebook.com/CCTek

68 Chevy Pickup Project
Build Thread: https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=7505

THANKS TO: A&M Machine and Fabrication, CCTek (http://www.candctek.com), Hermance Design(www.hermancedesign.com), Paradise Road Rod & Custom, Harry Opfer Welding, Wegner Automotive Research, Clayton Machine Works
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Blake Foster's Avatar
Blake Foster Blake Foster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St George Utah
Posts: 2,522
Thanks: 6
Thanked 101 Times in 44 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
When I said to good, I meant no way in hell I'd be able to compromise the part. That's EXACTLY what I want.
Sorry i mis understood
__________________
Blake Foster
www.speedtechperformance.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:22 AM
DFRESH's Avatar
DFRESH DFRESH is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,650
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Thanks for the feedback. Payton, yes, still have your number and thanks for the offer. Will hope to reach out and connect this weekend.

I am aware that several types and brands of floater setups are out there, including the circle track components. Having some friends in the "Rearend Business" (and i'm not referring to Dave Gordon--just because he lives in San Fran), i've had some conversations with Currie and and few others about the various setups they would typically reccommend for what I was doing. The honest answer back was that they didn't have anyone they knew driving long distances plus tracking the car. It's not what a floater was designed to do---doesn't mean it won't work in that manner--(I am quoting here on these 2points). Thus, i am left with only those of you with real world experience and what exactly that experience has been like for you up to this point.

I got the 2 to 3 thousand dollar figure from the cost of the parts and the labor to install on my housing plus the extras I don't know about.

Thank you again for the input. I do believe that a true floater setup is safer and more durable, which is appealing also.

FYI, i do know one sure method to cure knock back---convert back to drum brakes. Mine still work--but I continue to take severe abuse everywhere I go.

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:48 AM
Matt@BOS's Avatar
Matt@BOS Matt@BOS is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,036
Thanks: 2
Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Doug, if you have your heart set on those big pretty Baer calipers, go for it. If you think you need a floater, and you want to shell out the cash, get one of those too. Personally, if I were running fixed calipers I'd get one of these floater contraptions, be it Speedway's, or the soon to be released Speed Tech piece), etc. We tend to do what we want in this hobby, because it is exactly that - a hobby. A lot of our decisions are based on what makes us happy and fits our budget. Hell, I buy stuff because it looks cool, it sounds impressively engineered, and it is supposed to work well, (pro touring companies must have good marketing departments ) Anyway you've been around cars long enough to know that no two of our cars are alike, and as such there is no such thing as modern OEM reliability. We can each tell you what works for us, or what doesn't, but I bet that even if you copied one of our exact setups you'd get different results. You've been around cars so long you know there are pros and cons to everything. Picking parts isn't exactly a crap shoot, but everything works a little differently for each unique car.

Anyway, for some reason tonight I felt like summerizing points brought up in most of the floater discussions I've read and adding a few of my own points. haha, here it goes, with named and numbered setups:

1. the purple car version 1: 7/8" manual master cylinders and fixed calipers on conventional axles, i.e. torino big bearings with big wheels. This sucks!

2. the Vegas Special I don't know if there are other things that constitute a "Vegas Special," but we're talking about cars here. 1" master cylinders with tapered bearings and floater calipers. Todd says they're not half bad!Then again, Payback has a ZL1 that, Doug, makes everything on his car a touch better than our little small block low riders.

3. DSE: power booster with big ass fixed calipers and torino bearings. It works? Kyle checks the tolerances on every bearing going into his car because some are manufactured tighter than others. I wish this was an urban legend among the pro-touring community. Actually maybe it is, maybe it will be. Maybe Kyle is trying to psych us all out, but seeing as how he is an engineer, I think inspecting each and every bearing is more likely. Anyway, that s*** is intense - checking EVERY bearing to try and get rid of knock back. Lastly, let's not forget Kyle doesn't need fancy floating axles to beat us. He just drives better than us because he kind of does this for a living now.

4. Finch's King of every event Camaro DSE setup plus a 10lb residual pressure valve. I think it probably still had a little knock back...

5. purple car version 2: manual brakes and fixed calipers on a floater from Speedway Engineering. It works, and has been for 7000 miles!

6. "Lateral Dynamic's" Mark's old Camaro that no one remembers This thing probably existed sometime before written history up to 7ish years ago? so we can't be sure if it had manual brakes, power brakes, or Flinstone foot brakes. It probably had Wilwood fixed brakes. It also had a Moser circle track floater. Every time I see Mark he tells me it was garbage, and the the tolerances weren't good.

7. Dead Cat version 2: Newer than Mark's. Manual brakes and fixed calipers on a floater by Moser. It works!

8. ZR1 hub based floater It seems to have been invented simultaneously between Chicane and Steilow, kind of like how Newton and Leibniz both independently invented Calculus. Surely this must be revolutionary. Steilow claims it accommodates ABS functionality, stops knock back, and leaking... I think. It even stops leaking? every axle I've had leaks. I need to buy one of these to try out on my next project.

9. What works for Ford... Most new cars have IRS setups. The Mustang still uses a live axle. It also uses power brakes and floating calipers. Even the Grand Am Mustang race cars use that dinky little floating caliper.

10. The Renner mobile: If we all applied the logic of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," perhaps all of us would be running around with drum brakes on our old solid axle vintage cars. Sadly this is not the case, and I shed a tear as you move on from your days of one-legged-jihading it up with those self energizing prototype rear drum brakes. If you post them for sale I want first shot at them since I gave you a deal on that subframe...

*EDIT* 11. ... A pretty Penny How could I forget about Steve's car. If you bought it, you wouldn't have to worry about knock back. He has a 1" manual master cylinder with fixed calipers and tapered bearings. When Currie put in the tapered bearings they made sure to straighten the axle because previous work on it had caused it to warp, I believe.

Other things that may or may not work...
Hydroboost? anyone have experience with hydroboost and knock back?

Also, Stacey now has a Baer floater. Seems like everyone has been getting a few in for the last year and a half, and yet Stacey's car has the only one I've ever seen. we all have every reason to assume that it works, but damn is it expensive.

I'm sure I missed something, so feel free to something, anything...

Matt

Last edited by Matt@BOS; 01-14-2012 at 12:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:55 AM
Musclerodz's Avatar
Musclerodz Musclerodz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: washington, ok
Posts: 4,273
Thanks: 22
Thanked 159 Times in 93 Posts
Default

for the record, baer floater uses speedway made parts, and at least with the quadralink, Wes at DSE pretty sure they reused the same backspacing even after the conversion so the "dish look" is maintained which may not be able to do with some of the other aftermarket suspensions
__________________
Mike Redpath
Musclerodz & Customz
facebook page
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-14-2012, 01:19 AM
Flash68's Avatar
Flash68 Flash68 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NorCal
Posts: 9,145
Thanks: 58
Thanked 158 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFRESH View Post
Having some friends in the "Rearend Business" (and i'm not referring to Dave Gordon--just because he lives in San Fran),
Whoa whoa whoa... I thought I had to only worry about Todd on this one... now YOU are gonna go there? You BASTAGE!!

You don't post much no more Dougie... but when you do.... you drink Dos Equis?
__________________
2004 NASA AIX Mustang LS2 #14
1964 Lincoln Continental
2014 4 tap Keezer
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:35 AM
clill's Avatar
clill clill is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,246
Thanks: 45
Thanked 1,269 Times in 480 Posts
Default

My two cents...If you are going to track your car and push it hard I would do a floater. If you are going to street drive your car and maybe hit the track once a year for a fun day I wouldn't worry about it. I hate puck knockback. Jackass has it and it really gets your attention when you are doing 100 mph, hit the brakes and the pedal drops instead of slowing the car. You simply need to hit the pedal again but when you are running out of stopping room it really gets your attention. For any people that don't know what knock back is...When there is slop in the bearings or slop anywhere, the rotor flexes, when it flexes it pushes the piston behind the brake pad back into the cylinder. When you step on the brakes you waste the first push on the brakes just getting that brake pad back out to the rotor. You then hit the brakes again to actually apply the brakes.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:41 AM
Stuart Adams Stuart Adams is offline
Lateral-g Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,027
Thanks: 19
Thanked 61 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clill View Post
My two cents...If you are going to track your car and push it hard I would do a floater. If you are going to street drive your car and maybe hit the track once a year for a fun day I wouldn't worry about it. I hate puck knockback. Jackass has it and it really gets your attention when you are doing 100 mph, hit the brakes and the pedal drops instead of slowing the car. You simply need to hit the pedal again but when you are running out of stopping room it really gets your attention. For any people that don't know what knock back is...When there is slop in the bearings or slop anywhere, the rotor flexes, when it flexes it pushes the piston behind the brake pad back into the cylinder. When you step on the brakes you waste the first push on the brakes just getting that brake pad back out to the rotor. You then hit the brakes again to actually apply the brakes.
With how fast JA is I'll bet hitting the brakes with no results the first time will test your scones.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:54 AM
Vegas69's Avatar
Vegas69 Vegas69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,663
Thanks: 86
Thanked 210 Times in 119 Posts
Default

All I can say is when I ran 5 sessioins at Buttonwillow with 2 year old axle bearings, I had 0 knockback. For once I took the economical route and it works. I do want to switch to a 7/8 master eventually and that could change things. Your real problem is Baer doesn't offer a decent floating caliper. You are forced into a floating rear end if you want 0 knockback. If you aren't in a hurry, give it some time for this new baer setup along with the Speedtech to get some miles under their belts. I also feel if you keep the rear wheel lip where it is currently, you will have less knockback naturally. A 5.25/5.5" BS on a 12" rim looks great but it puts a ton of leverage on a bearing. Matt over at Art Morrison calculated it for me and it is 5 or 10 times greater(Don't remember) than what the bearing was engineered for originally. FYI Have you ever seen a deep dish on a Corvette.
__________________
Todd

Last edited by Vegas69; 01-14-2012 at 09:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Lateral-g.net