Camaro XV

[Roberts68]

Originally Posted by Stielow

I think we can keep it cool and make more power.

Mark

Trust me. If the trend continues it WILL be plenty COOL... even if the temp is a bit to the high side. I'm just sayin'...

[WSSix]

Originally Posted by Stielow

On Red Devil we ran the diff, tran, engine oil good and power steer was all sent to the front of the car to be cooled. On Mayhem we move the trans and diff cooler to the back to reduce the thermal load on the front. Mayhems engine coolant temp as very on track but we are still chasing an engine oil cooling issue. On Camaro XV I'm adding an even bigger rad and oil heat exchanger.

But as we attempt to rebalance the thermal load Thomson is upping the power..
I think we can keep it cool and make more power.

Mark

Thanks Mark! Good luck.

[PTAddict]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

I'm probably going to step out on a real thin limb here but I dont see the purpose of running coolers for rear diff, power steering, and trans when you may run 25 minutes a session at most?

I'm running a NA LS7 with a lot less HP than Mark - about 600 - and I certainly can't drive my car as close to the limit as he does his But I still find PS and trans cooling to be essential for Summer track days, I think partly because temps never return to baseline between sessions. By the 2nd or 3rd sesssion, both steering and shifting went to hell by 10 minutes in without coolers. My diff temps are marginal - 260 - 280 with synthetic fluid - and I haven't added a diff cooler yet.

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

I'm probably going to step out on a real thin limb here but I dont see the purpose of running coolers for rear diff, power steering, and trans when you may run 25 minutes a session at most?

With over 700 - 800 HP on tap and my driving style I can over temp the diff in 3 laps. The power steering I can over temp autoXing in a few laps easy. I have less data on the trans but while I'm at it I add one. If someone is not going 10/10ths then the extra cooler are not needed.

If your car is running lower power then the coolers are not needed. I have gotten diff so hot that it has ruined gear sets. I forget how many Watts the diff buts out but it is not insignificant.

I will add a disclaimer here. My builds are not normal and my duty cycle is not normal. Heck if I run a full 25 min. session I get a lot of stuff real hot.

Mark

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Stielow

With over 700 - 800 HP on tap and my driving style I can over temp the diff in 3 laps. The power steering I can over temp autoXing in a few laps easy. I have less data on the trans but while I'm at it I add one. If someone is not going 10/10ths then the extra cooler are not needed.

If your car is running lower power then the coolers are not needed. I have gotten diff so hot that it has ruined gear sets. I forget how many Watts the diff buts out but it is not insignificant.

I will add a disclaimer here. My builds are not normal and my duty cycle is not normal. Heck if I run a full 25 min. session I get a lot of stuff real hot.

Mark

Well I probably should have known better to question an engineer. I was just thinking how much power and weight loss you would gain without those items.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by PTAddict

I'm running a NA LS7 with a lot less HP than Mark - about 600 - and I certainly can't drive my car as close to the limit as he does his But I still find PS and trans cooling to be essential for Summer track days, I think partly because temps never return to baseline between sessions. By the 2nd or 3rd sesssion, both steering and shifting went to hell by 10 minutes in without coolers. My diff temps are marginal - 260 - 280 with synthetic fluid - and I haven't added a diff cooler yet.

I'm running an NA 427 620/560 to the crank and my KRC aluminum PS pump has treated me well so far since 2002. My trans is spec'd for Royal Purple by the builder and I change fluids after every track day and the oil still looks good. Trans in car since 2006. No cooler for rear diff either and car is used strictly for time trials on road courses. Same Eaton carrier since 2004.
This is why I asked the question.

[PTAddict]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

I'm running an NA 427 620/560 to the crank and my KRC aluminum PS pump has treated me well so far since 2002. My trans is spec'd for Royal Purple by the builder and I change fluids after every track day and the oil still looks good. Trans in car since 2006. No cooler for rear diff either and car is used strictly for time trials on road courses. Same Eaton carrier since 2004.
This is why I asked the question.

Yeah, I think the experiences on this can be quite variable. For instance, I think the T56 trans in 1st or 2nd gen is likely to be more vulnerable to overheating issues, due to the very tight fit in the tunnel and the close proximity of exhaust routing for optimal ground clearance. I've built two 1st gens and one 2nd gen with a T56, and all of them would develop sticky shifting issues as the day went on with multiple track sessions - and I tried, by my count, at least 5 different synthetic trans fluids trying to cure the problem.

I'd note that late model Z06 vettes and SS or ZL1 Camaros have trans coolers standard, and that probably influences my perspective as well. As an engineer myself, I tend to think the decisions of engineers to add extra cost/extra weight items to a production vehicle are based on rational considerations.

On the PS front, things again are quite variable. On my 2nd gen, with an older stock style PS pump and recirculating ball box, never had a problem with no cooler. On my '69, using DSE pump and rack, I've had fluid boilover even with a cooler.

Overall, after many track outings that have ended early for one obscure failure or another, I am much more in the "over-engineer from the beginning" camp. Different strokes

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by PTAddict

Yeah, I think the experiences on this can be quite variable. For instance, I think the T56 trans in 1st or 2nd gen is likely to be more vulnerable to overheating issues, due to the very tight fit in the tunnel and the close proximity of exhaust routing for optimal ground clearance. I've built two 1st gens and one 2nd gen with a T56, and all of them would develop sticky shifting issues as the day went on with multiple track sessions - and I tried, by my count, at least 5 different synthetic trans fluids trying to cure the problem.

I'd note that late model Z06 vettes and SS or ZL1 Camaros have trans coolers standard, and that probably influences my perspective as well. As an engineer myself, I tend to think the decisions of engineers to add extra cost/extra weight items to a production vehicle are based on rational considerations.

On the PS front, things again are quite variable. On my 2nd gen, with an older stock style PS pump and recirculating ball box, never had a problem with no cooler. On my '69, using DSE pump and rack, I've had fluid boilover even with a cooler.

Overall, after many track outings that have ended early for one obscure failure or another, I am much more in the "over-engineer from the beginning" camp. Different strokes

I hear you...most guys build for the street so different strokes for sure.
With Mark trying to incorporate a street/track combination there are definitely more challenges to be met. Especially when laying down that kind of power.

[Stuart Adams]

Seeing the engineering and the product Mark produces I think after 15 camaro's of learning and testing each, I'd be doing what he sais. Cool stuff.

[garickman]

Good Point!