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  #11  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
Amen I have to add, he is doing it in TRUE protouring fashion as well. His car weighs 3600lbs and it ain't no racecar with license plates. I'll leave it at that.

I worked Tech this year.... and the auto cross.... and the StopTech stop box... so got to touch - see - and watch every single car there on a close up basis.

Remember that this is "THEIR" (sponsors) show... they get to run it anyway they want to. I'm just happy they allow all of us to be a part of it.

Having said that -- and having worked this event since day one.... I don't care what kind of a car it is -- the BIGGEST DIFFERENCE out there is the driver. I saw extreme quality (i.e., BIG MONEY) cars running - some low dollar (no slam here because there was nothing out there I didn't want to own!)....and everything in between. EVERYONE ran 'em hard, and often.

The lines have gotten blurred between "street" and "race"... and it's getting harder and harder to distinguish what IS and what ISN'T. The more rules you make - the more rules get bent or circumvented.

I personally would like to see a "fighting chance" given to the more "street car" vs the more "race car" as far as scoring/winning. Maybe have a group place cars in "A" and "B" group to distinguish them. A pro in a race car is certainly going to beat a home built/never been on a track before guy. END OF STORY. My guess is - if you asked the home/novice driver if he'd run again -- he'd be slathering at the chance!

BUT == There's always a big BUTT in the room isn't there? LOL ----- Watching the "race cars" run - and hearing them - and watching how these guys run the lines vs the other guys - is what we ALL learn from... and without them this event wouldn't be nearly as exciting.

Back in the day --- What the Mule/Red Devil are now --- they were race cars vs what the other stuff was. Think about it -- they had the biggest HP and biggest brakes and roll bars... the best suspensions....and drivers that had lots of experience. They pushed the envelope of what was street and what was nearly a race car.... EVERYONE RAISED THEIR GAME because of cars like this.

You go out there and watch Mary Pozzi -- Brian Hobaugh -- Mark Steilow -- Danny Popp - Kyle and Stacy Tucker - and a few others.... and you know you can put these people in ANY CAR OUT THERE and they'd be far higher on the leader board than the car/driver that ran. It's amazing to watch these truly talented people wheel a car around.

Every one of these cars had to drive out to the event... about 45 miles -- they did it in the rain and snow... from downtown Vegas.. over the mountain pass... in stop and go traffic... They're all running STREET tires... and then they got beat on like a judge beats his teenage daughter (had to get that in! HAHAHA). I just about s*** myself when I was up in my room and heard some badazz car ripping down LV Blvd -- I look out over the the lake and here goes Innovator! He was rattling my windows on the 18th floor. Gawd I loved that! AND it's raining.... Then to watch that bad boy ripping the back straight... looking and sounding like a real race car. EPIC!

I'm not defending or taking a side -- I'm just saying -- there is no separation any more - and nice paint and fit and finish or having a full roll cage and the widest tire on the planet or the biggest 400 piston caliper... or a full carbon fiber front end and carbon fiber wheel hoops.... WHAT IS or ISN'T a race car anymore?? Carbon fiber parts were -- catch word there -- the exclusive domain of the top Formula One teams! WTF.... there was more carbon fiber out at OUSCI.... and shocks with canisters... and big cube 1000 hp turbo whooptedoo....

The real separation ---- THE DRIVERS. OMG there where some drivers out there...

Last edited by GregWeld; 11-06-2011 at 06:13 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2011, 02:53 PM
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Todd don't hold back on us now bro.....
I'm not picking on anybody and don't want to start a pissing match. My point, cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates. This a very declicate subject but I have a good feel for the end product. I'd consider my car somewhere in the middle. If I had it to do over again, I'd likely be one of the guys with a car more catered to the track vs. the street. That's just what I enjoy the most. I'm not 18 anymore and I don't find many places to let 666hp breath around here. Not safely at least.

Bottom line, my point is that Mark is doing it with a car that is really the definition or protouring.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:07 PM
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Stielow took first in the "Pro-Touring" class..
This site is Lateral-G, so I think the opinions reflect as such....
Anyone who knew the players and cars knew how it was going to turn out. Stielow's "tie" is a phenomenal feat when you really break it down.

I've already heard rumblings of a 2 class system for next year and I hope it really comes to fruition. I am confident Jimi and the organizers will adjust to the growth and change of this event. It ain't an easy task that's for sure.

Greg makes goint points (for once ) that it continually raises the bar and paves new paths for others -- both the cars themselves and the actual driving.

But there should be some integrity maintained here eh? I saw one car didn't even have side windows. Come on. Ultimate Streetcar.

Again, it ain't my show, but this thing surely has shifted gears in its young existence.

I am with Todd, and I see many others that I know and talk to shaping their cars (either during the build, or after completion) for more track duty than for 1000 mile cruising than ever before. And I do like that.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't complaining. This is still the pinnacle of "Pro Touring on the track"!
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Last edited by Flash68; 11-06-2011 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
I'm not picking on anybody and don't want to start a pissing match. My point, cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates. This a very declicate subject but I have a good feel for the end product. I'd consider my car somewhere in the middle. If I had it to do over again, I'd likely be one of the guys with a car more catered to the track vs. the street. That's just what I enjoy the most. I'm not 18 anymore and I don't find many places to let 666hp breath around here. Not safely at least.

Bottom line, my point is that Mark is doing it with a car that is really the definition or protouring.


WE agree 100%


I just don't want people that weren't there -- to read stuff like this and start forming UNINFORMED opinions about what the event should or shouldn't be.... and sadly that's what starts to happen. These types of events are GOOD for us and our industry... and we need to support them 100% and the sponsors that toss perfectly good money at this stuff.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:23 PM
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I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:31 PM
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You are right, I'm definitely not taking anything away from the event or the winner. I don't care what he was driving, it's still a great accomplishment. I was fortunate to run it last year and would love to do it again. It's not called the ultimate protouring street car invitational. I'm just puffing out my chest for the capabilities of our hobby and the cars we build.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2011, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 96z28ss View Post
I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.
Well.... lights - both headlight and taillights - as well as working brake lights were part of tech... as was a thorough tire inspection - and the cars weren't considered tech'd until a marking was on EVERY tire... tread - treadwear ratings - wheel bearings etc were all checked... Heaters not so much.... My roadster didn't have a heater until I added it. A horn is a requirement in order to get a license plate in most states... Get a ticket for not having one!

So -- I couldn't run my ROADSTER if it was chosen? No top - no side windows... No fenders... Aircraft carpeting because it is super lightweight compared to automotive version...

What about my LSX blown TR3? (man would that be a shoehorn!!) LOL

They'd have to take away some of the 10 cars that WON golden tickets to OUSCI because of winning a RTT(X) event....

That's the problem with RULES...
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
You are right, I'm definitely not taking anything away from the event or the winner. I don't care what he was driving, it's still a great accomplishment. I was fortunate to run it last year and would love to do it again. It's not called the ultimate protouring street car invitational. I'm just puffing out my chest for the capabilities of our hobby and the cars we build.


From 10,000 feet ----- I totally agree with you!

"Our" style of cars were WELL represented and they did just fine!

EPIC really... Mister Stielow was kicking serious butt!
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates.
And this is because of the RTTx type events, and ultimately, Optima.

Many people are building or modifying build plans just to get into this event. That says a lot about how great these events and Optima are.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2011, 04:23 PM
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And that may be a HUUUUGE mistake. You can't bake your cake and eat it too. Getting greedy on the race car side will effect your comfort and cruising experience. I always say, you don't know what you've built until the wheels spin the first time.
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