...

Go Back   Lateral-g Forums > Help, Feedback and Testing > Vendor/Member Feedback
User Name
Password



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-06-2021, 05:54 AM
kwhizz's Avatar
kwhizz kwhizz is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kenosha , wi
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 388
Thanked 266 Times in 118 Posts
Default Hydratech

Great system but ordered my Assy on 10/20 and still waiting for Delivery....... Getting ridiculous......2/6

Ken
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-20-2021, 04:04 PM
kwhizz's Avatar
kwhizz kwhizz is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kenosha , wi
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 388
Thanked 266 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Today makes 4 months since ordering........ No unit yet....

Ken
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kwhizz For This Useful Post:
TT302Z28 (03-06-2021)
  #3  
Old 02-23-2021, 06:23 AM
Hydratech®'s Avatar
Hydratech® Hydratech® is offline
Supporting Manufacturer

HydratechBraking.com

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Music City
Posts: 409
Thanks: 3
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
Post I am looking into your order

Hi Ken - I have reviewed our production list and did not locate any orders from your date range, looking for either Ken or any orders to Wisconsin. Did you order this in through a dealer? Or was the order placed directly with us? Once I can locate and review your order, I can then shed some light on it. Has this possibly been ordered under a different name and / or location?

Let me know what the year / make / model the unit is ordered for, and the name the order was placed / billed under (PM me your details). The problem could be an error where you are not on the production list, though we could still find it by back chasing our individual customer files in the office.
__________________
There IS a difference - Thank you for choosing Hydratech!

Paul M. Clark
Founder / Master Engineer
Hydratech Braking Systems ®
www.hydratechbraking.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-23-2021, 02:40 PM
kwhizz's Avatar
kwhizz kwhizz is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kenosha , wi
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 388
Thanked 266 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydratech View Post
Hi Ken - I have reviewed our production list and did not locate any orders from your date range, looking for either Ken or any orders to Wisconsin. Did you order this in through a dealer? Or was the order placed directly with us? Once I can locate and review your order, I can then shed some light on it. Has this possibly been ordered under a different name and / or location?

Let me know what the year / make / model the unit is ordered for, and the name the order was placed / billed under (PM me your details). The problem could be an error where you are not on the production list, though we could still find it by back chasing our individual customer files in the office.
Everything was ordered thru Frame-Up Wheelworks in Beach Park, Ill....... Contact Donnie....... 1966 Chevelle

Ken
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-04-2021, 10:49 AM
Hydratech®'s Avatar
Hydratech® Hydratech® is offline
Supporting Manufacturer

HydratechBraking.com

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Music City
Posts: 409
Thanks: 3
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
Unhappy Sigh...

Hi Ken, Donnie,
First, I would like to start with "proof of life" of your order - it IS completed, just needs to get through the backlogged shipping department now:



I hope it will also please you to know that you are receiving our latest design improvements in your build:



We were experiencing problems with inconsistent plating variations, causing thickness variations with the precision tolerances we work with in the construction of our systems. Phasing out the previous steel zinc plated pedal rods, MC pushrods, and brake pedal rod adapters into stainless steel versions has allowed us to improve the precision in these items to whole new level of evolution. It drove us nuts to have to constantly scrap out percentages of our zinc plated steel items if there were problems with parts not wanting to thread together properly, or look good if the plating wasn't proper. Stainless has dramatically raised the costs to produce these parts, but has solved an awful lot of headaches for us while dramatically increasing strength and quality.



The short story is that you will definitely have your order delivered next week and we can leave it at that. Alternately, if you would like to REALLY know what in the hell the production hold ups have been, continue reading.

This is a long read, a candid personal explanation of circumstances on my end, so grab your favorite beverage, grab a seat and fasten your seat belt. First, I burned the bottoms of my feet very badly on Labor Day weekend 2019 in a fluke accident (extremely hot black Rhino Lining type coating on the flooring of a pontoon boat with a slide that we rented for the grand kids to enjoy). I have Diabetes, so the neuropathy in my feet prevented me from feeling just how hot the area was that I was standing on barefooted at the uncovered front of the boat (100 degree day with blazing hot sun). These nasty 3rd degree burns put me in a wheel chair for three months - I'll save you the terrible pictures that I had considered posting. Despite all of the back and forth intensive medical care, a horrible staph infection set in between two of my toes so badly that it had started in on my toe bones, which became very dangerously exposed (Osteomyelitis). MRI imaging revealed that considerable destruction was occurring to my toe bones, and exceptionally scary discussions of the necessity of untold amounts of amputation where going to have to be scheduled. The doctor said that once they started in, they would continue removal of everything that appeared troubled, meaning I could have woken up after surgery to find that they had decided to cut my entire foot off (!) I was completely blown away, so I did a MASSIVE amount of research to find that I needed to force my doctors to prescribe Doxycycline Hyclate (per all of my own research). They had warned me that the infection warranted immediate amputation, but I insisted on seeing what the results would be first with this powerful antibiotic, combined with Amoxicillin Clavulanate. The doctors kept telling me scary cases were the bone infections like this could quickly spread up my leg, leading to vastly larger possible amputation if it got out of hand, possibly even sepsis leading to death. It kept seeming like they wanted to prep me for surgery and start cutting, but I was stubbornly refusing. DAMN GOOD THING THAT I DID, because the infection cleared up within 30 days, with the gaping hole and protruding bone healing completely shut to the amazement of the doctors. I had just started getting out of the wheel chair for a bit at a time in January of 2020, happy to be back on my feet even though it hurt like hell to stand and walk. To this day, I am still having troubles with my feet and ankles if I stay on my feet for longer periods, but I can at least make it up and down the stairs now slowly and carefully and waddle around the shop decently. I am blessed to have some good people working for me to help with all of the big physical work (unloading semi deliveries and such).

So just as soon as I feel that I have dodged the bullet of amputation and am starting to get around almost back to normal at the end of January, here comes COVID in February. We saw a complete shutdown of orders, so I stopped ordering in parts until we could evaluate what things were going to look like. We had to receive the Federal PPP and the EIDL to keep everybody working and cover the large loss of revenue with sales having gone flat with the world gripped in fear of this deadly pandemic starting in. By the beginning of April, I saw that sales were starting to surprisingly pick back up. I would’ve never imagined that, but apparently people were stuck at home and wanted something to tinker with. I then started ordering parts of all kinds again, finding that we couldn’t get much of anything direct from Aeroquip and Bosch due to system wide blackouts in production, but had no problems with the machinists at this time as they were very low on work with their big accounts shut down, punching our orders out in 30 +/- days. I started dealing with as many sources as I could to do everything possible to get my hands on parts – even Matt's Classic Bowties and other friends in the industry helped me with getting Atech to let loose of the Aeroquip hose ends they were hoarding. Slowly but surely I started to get inventory back into decent stocking levels, but at costs that were almost 60% higher than usual as per having to purchase from sources that knew they had everybody by the balls (bastards).

We then ran into a problems with the show prep units which you may know about (our lead painter no longer with us due to his drug problems):
https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58620
The net result of firing our lead painter was that I was now having to do all of the special show preparation paint work, essentially having to cover an additional 40 hours of work per week until I could train in a new employee to cover this position. All this time later, 3 employees later, we now have a painter that is doing well enough through his training to relieve me of the insane additional work load I was covering. I still have to rework a few units here and there that didn't turn out quite right, but Rob is getting better and better at it.

Now recently we ran into an even bigger problem where ten grand worth of A/F/X plates all had to go into the scrap bin (made me sick). You can see in the image of the backside of a mounting plate counterbore with an area marked in red. This shows how far off center the rear counterbores were in a large amount of billet plates received:



Our lead times with the machinists has swelled considerably as their large accounts (Whirlpool, John Deere, Parker-Hannafin and such) started to retroactively place double / triple sized catch up orders with them, so I had ordered in large double batches of the various popular billet plates. It took almost four months for them to produce our production order, probably would have been better if I had placed smaller orders spaced apart some. Soooo… we finally received the order of A/F/X system plates (needed for your order), loaded them onto our shelves with a smile, and starting working towards getting after a very substantial amount of back logged A/F/X orders. We get the units built, ready to install the mounting plates onto the brake units, and I’ll be a fried damn ass catfish, we discovered that the plates were machined correctly on the front side, but off by a ¼ inch in the backside, not allowing the brake unit mounting nut to be installed. We went through the entire (loooong awaited) batch to find each and every one was machined improperly, which sucks even worse because we had spent over 30 hours carefully preparing them (deep cleaning, clear coating, then oven baking them all). None of us could believe that the problem wasn’t directly visual at the time we were preparing the plates – we just didn’t see it while handling the plates, never having a problem like this before. I contacted the owner of the machine shop and read him the absolute riot act - they were also very pissed to have to eat over 10k worth of plates straight into the scrap heap.

Next, the machine shop gets shut down due to a Covid outbreak. They had a few people fall ill and test positive, which forced the shut down. The entire shop had to be sterilized, everybody had to be tested and quarantine, those that had Covid managed to get through it. The state is very strict when it comes to reported Covid outbreaks, so the shop had to wait to get the "all clear" from them before they could re-open. So now we have yet another exceptionally problematic delay. The good news is that everybody is ok now. They had to sterilize all incoming and outgoing packages, quarantining them for a minimum or 72 hours before being handled. We were on edge about receiving boxes of parts from them, also spraying everything down upon arrival here along with not touching the boxes for 72 hours. I had considered investing in a UV-C sterilizer, though deemed the antiviral spray down and 72 hour quarantine adequate. Nice, right? Covid knocking on our door seemingly, with them only being a few miles away from us. One of our part time girls also contracted Covid, and I was very paranoid about her coming back to work after getting the all clear, as I am one of those people considered to be "high risk with underlying causes". So far, so good, scheduled to roll my sleeve up within the Group 1C coming up next. I have been so paranoid, as NOBODY around this area wears masks and gloves, zero social distancing - scary to be out in public in a checkout line with people around you that don't care about how you may feel about the situation.

With the machine shop now back in action, they back traced the problem, corrected it in their programming and fixtures, and we just now took delivery of the replacement batch of these A/F/X plates yet another two months later, inspecting each and every one to find them all proper (THANK GOD). This means we have now resumed production on the A/F/X systems.

Yes, I agree with you that lead times on certain models have gone radically off of the deep end. I am working so damn hard to overcome our supplier issues, identifying where the problems are, then placing heavy stock orders with Aeroquip six months in advance to solve that lead time problem, placing orders for brake units 3 months in advance, now also stocking them on a group of new racks set up in the shop specifically dedicated to staying way ahead of the curve on these here in house (in addition to a warehousing company that keeps 60 days of our brake unit needs now in stock for us at all times to buffer availability problems), and have been placing orders in with the machinists 3 months in advance. I now have invested very heavily into keeping stocking levels on all items at levels triple+ what they used to ever be in years gone by, and am finding that I have to move the orders with the specialty machinists up even further still (from the prior 3 months now to 6 months). The amount of money put into fighting the lead time problems is well north of a 100k, and I STILL can’t get production running right due to supply issue problems. It doesn't make me feel any better to know that everybody else I have spoken with in the industry is also having nightmares with supplier issues.

Right when you think lightning just can't keep striking, here is yet another disaster we had to overcome this year. I don't know if anybody else in the industry has caught this yet, but there is a raging problem with deformed stamped steel clevises out there, no matter what brand or supplier we have tried. Check this out:



This of course also led to further production delays, as there was no way we were going to ship systems with any junk like this. I have over 350+ of these junk clevises in stock from all different suppliers, essentially nothing but scrap metal. This is why we have come up with the new custom design super duty forged stainless steel clevises. Even the cross pins and the cotter pins are stainless, so don't accidentally drop one behind the carpet during installation, as a magnet will not work on these items to fish them out. These new SS clevises cost us over 5 times more than the previous stamped steel stock type clevises used to. We had discussed the clevis problem with our friends at Wilwood, and they interestingly said they did not see a market for these - astounding because so many different models of GM vehicles run these. The Wilwood clevises would have been black e-coated aluminum, so I feel that we did best to go with these 80,000 PSI tensile strength 316 alloy overkill SS clevises.

Another production disaster we had to face last year was that Omega / Corteco that used to produce the brass seat inserts we use decided to discontinue them - good grief. So now we have been forced to produce these of our own means also at considerably greater expense. That being said, at least we upgraded them to an improved bronze alloy as opposed to the previous brass:




Maybe it is going to take having to shut down for a month or two to get caught up with all of our orders, though that creates a whole ‘nuther set of issues as we have been filling orders for models that we have had appropriate stock for. Some customers have been getting certain models in 30 days, only because we have had all of the inventory required to build these less popular models.

We are currently taking heavy fire left and right. My guy Jim is having a dickens of a time trying to keep his head straight with irate customers getting completely unhinged with him daily. I suppose the summary is that we are victims of Covid, causing delays that I would have never believed possible. This has all been compounded by one of the strongest amount of summer sales in our history which was exactly the opposite of what was expected (catching us completely off guard). We had carefully warned everybody at the time of order that lead times have been approximately doubled due to supplier issues, though it turns out that the leads have actually tripled. 90% of our clientele have been very understanding and patient, though 10% of them have been ballistic and unruly.

Now that I have taken the time to document all of this, hopefully those that see this will have a better understanding as to "what the hell is going on". We are working hard to get a grip on our challenges and overcome them. Talk of Hydratech going out of business on the "other forum" was removed because it was complete BS. Hydratech has been in existence 21 years now, producing the best products we ever have. I refuse to cut quality just to get orders out the door faster. I have always believed that the initial discomfort of delays in receiving an order can eventually be forgiven and forgotten if it is the best quality money can buy. What can never be forgiven is the sting of grabbing something cheap and fast, then having to live with the heartburn of an inferior product from there on out, especially with a brake assist unit being a life line part of a vehicle.

Summary? We can't thank you enough for your support and PATIENCE with us as we work through the challenges. I built this business from the ground up 21 years ago with an awful lot of "blood, sweat, and tears", always ever evolving my designs. Hopefully you see that we really care, and would love nothing more than to reel in our lead times back to pre Covid times (or faster) as soon as we can as my absolute top priority.

__________________
There IS a difference - Thank you for choosing Hydratech!

Paul M. Clark
Founder / Master Engineer
Hydratech Braking Systems ®
www.hydratechbraking.com
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Hydratech® For This Useful Post:
130fe (03-04-2021), 572Camaro (03-06-2021), cpd004 (03-24-2021), Ketzer (03-04-2021), Spiffav8 (03-05-2021), SSLance (03-05-2021)
  #6  
Old 03-04-2021, 12:14 PM
dontlifttoshift's Avatar
dontlifttoshift dontlifttoshift is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Beach Park. IL
Posts: 868
Thanks: 6
Thanked 93 Times in 58 Posts
Default

I am sorry for everything you have been through, however, it was more important to garner sympathy than to simply reply to my PM at 7:45 this morning asking for a status update. That says a lot. You could have spent the morning helping poor Jim answer the phone and deal with all those irate customers instead of telling us about your feet.

When Ken posted in feedback last week you requested more information and he gave it to you. No follow up on your end.

When I have left messages inquiring about the status of this order I never heard anything back.

When I did get through, I got "two more weeks"

When I was told it would ship tomorrow and it didn't nobody could be bothered to supply an answer......even now, you built in an excuse as to why it won't ship today as your shipping department is backed up.

The failure isn't the delivery time. The failure is the complete disregard for the customer and that was in your control the whole time.
__________________
Donny

Support your local hot rod shop!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-2021, 11:01 PM
Hydratech®'s Avatar
Hydratech® Hydratech® is offline
Supporting Manufacturer

HydratechBraking.com

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Music City
Posts: 409
Thanks: 3
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
Thumbs down Customer badgering and harassment

Here is the definition of BADGERING and HARASSMENT as taken from the dictionary:

badg·ered, badg·er·ing, badg·ers
To ask or nag (someone) about something in an annoying and persistent way; pester: badgered the boy into cleaning his room. See Synonyms at harass.

həˈrasmənt, ˈherəsmənt
The act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands, aggressive pressure or intimidation.

Legal discussions of the topic: Harassment coming from customers is often difficult to deal with. Employees might be reluctant to report customers, especially ones who are responsible for revenue. This causes the customer’s behavior to go unpunished and continue.


Quote:
For some perspective, in the past year I waited 4 months for a set of brakes from StopTech, over 3 months for a Dakota Digital order, nearly 3 months for a set of wheels from Billet Specialties and as far as I know none of those companies are going out of business.......nor is anyone ready to burn them at the stake. Getting supplies for and from anyone for anything has been a mess. No company can deliver something they don't have.

To help the reader understand, I am not defending HydraTech. Their lead time has _always_ sucked. Never once have I called there and talked to a person, I always leave a message. Most of the time they call me back. I also think that they are relatively expensive for what they are.

However, I would wait 4 years for a HydraTech unit and I would cut holes in the floor and stop the car like Fred Flintstone before I bought another CPP hydroboost.
Quote:
What is really irritating here is when I talked to Jim @ Hydratech on last Thursday he stated quite confidently that this unit was in assembly and would ship Friday or Monday at the latest and that I would receive a UPS tracking Email.

After Monday passed with no word I called yesterday morning and twice more in the afternoon and no one answered. This is the fourth time they have missed their due date on this order.

Hold on..... yep, all of the lines are currently busy again/still.
Quote:
Saw Paul was logged in this morning, sent a PM, we will see if we get a reply.

If not, back to calling every hour until someone answers the phone. No sense leaving a message, no one calls back.
Donny, you were clearly informed that the Covid related delays and machining problems with the plates were causing the delays. This means that you were indeed serviced within the chain of communication, and informed that the system was now in production, expected to ship shortly. Yes, it took a few days longer than initially reported by Jim, at which point you started in with further uncalled for unpleasant badgering and harassment. Your statement of calling every hour on the hour is obnoxious and blatant harassment and badgering. Sending P/M after P/M after P/M after P/M to my inbox is harassment and badgering. The US policy of not negotiating with terrorists is the same here. If we see such behavior, the first step is to watch the caller ID and not take the call. The next further step is to stop responding to badgering voice mails. I checked Jim's e-mail account along with the info account, and the only e-mails I see are from 10/20/20 when you placed an order for a 2nd gen Camaro system along with Ken's A/F/X system - nothing else. So it proves that you are perfectly capable of sending an e-mail, which a normal person would do if they felt that they could not get in touch via the phone - you did not. The 2nd gen system you ordered was delivered to you on 1/18/21. This second system for Ken is scheduled to be delivered on 3/8/21.

Soooo.... Your actions did nothing to speed up the production of Ken's system. Badgering Jim initiated a block out of communications, which also accomplished nothing. Your ranting slanderous posts in the forums were what, you needing your diaper changed? Classic internet keyboard cowboy? I was so angry with your actions that I had instructed the office to cancel your order due to your behavior, but stopped only for the sake of Ken, who I ultimately knew it would hurt as the actual customer. Be it known that we have a BLACKLIST of DO NOT SERVICE people, and Donny Freise of Frame Up Wheel Works is now the latest entry at the top of the list. I have clearly explained what the scenarios have been. I did NOT have to go into the details of both my personal problems and the professional problems very candidly and transparently, but I did so that it would help people see what it looks like from a manufacturers point of view. I don't believe I have seen anybody else do that. You then decided to make a sarcastic comment about the discussions of the severe injuries to my feet - don't you EVER make light of anybody ending up in a wheel chair. I am staying professional here, having learned over the years that people such as yourself will be your best friend when the calm winds are blowing, but all of the steely knives come right out the minute that something doesn't go your way. You have made a complete ass of yourself - I hope you are happy now.

Quote:
The failure isn't the delivery time. The failure is the complete disregard for the customer and that was in your control the whole time.
The quote above is BS. All you and Ken did was to keep bitching about how the hydroboost hasn't arrived yet post after post = all directly and obviously pointed clearly at the delivery time. The failure here was your behavior. Any solid citizen can clearly see that you had started getting pissy because this was one of the last few parts needed before you could fire up the engine, where you then activated Ken into motion to also post about how ridiculous the scenario was. From a technical perspective, you could have very easily temporarily looped a hose from the PS pump output back to the return to run the engine, but I suppose you didn't see that because you were too focused upon blasting us instead.

Now back to you SIR -
__________________
There IS a difference - Thank you for choosing Hydratech!

Paul M. Clark
Founder / Master Engineer
Hydratech Braking Systems ®
www.hydratechbraking.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hydratech® For This Useful Post:
Ketzer (03-06-2021)
  #8  
Old 03-08-2021, 09:35 AM
dontlifttoshift's Avatar
dontlifttoshift dontlifttoshift is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Beach Park. IL
Posts: 868
Thanks: 6
Thanked 93 Times in 58 Posts
Default

I won't even address your drivel about definitions and punishing customers.....or the personal insults that you felt were necessary in your "professional" reply.

I was informed that there was a covid shutdown at the machine shop and was told two more weeks until my unit shipped. That was January 12th. Nearly 3 months from the date that you took my money and 3 weeks after the date I was told it would ship. That was my first contact since placing the order. Tell me I'm not patient.

After that two weeks, I followed up on the order. I was told plates were in and it would take two more weeks to assemble.

The next conversation was when Jim said it would ship Friday or Monday. Ken was sitting right in my office for that one. When that didn't happen, I needed to know why and Ken deserved to know why.

I am perfectly capable of sending an email. Why would I do so when you website clearly instructs:

Quote:
Due to very high e-mail volumes lately, we do ask that you please call us to discuss your needs. We are working to answer as many e-mails as possible in the most thorough and comprehensive manner in the order they are received, though are currently looking at 48-72 hours average response time.
Why would I choose to wait 48-72 hours when I could potentially get an answer right now with the customer sitting in front of me? If a company doesn't return a phone call, what faith would I have in their ability to return an email? Why is HydraTech's lack of communication my fault because I did not choose the right way to communicate.

Please show evidence of PM after PM after PM from me. I sent one. I called hourly when no one returned my calls, in hopes that I could get through and talk to a person......only after I was told it would ship on a specific day and it didn't. If it makes me abnormal to want answers for myself and my customer, so be it.

I am sorry that you felt I was making light of your situation, that wasn't my intention. The point was that none of that had anything to do with what had transpired in the past month. I will stand by every one of my words and repeat this statement again.

The failure isn't the delivery time. The failure is the complete disregard for the customer and that was in your control the whole time.

It rings even truer now, as you once again missed the opportunity to take responsibility for this and continue to miss the point in those simple words. You could have avoided all of your anger by keeping your customer informed, you chose instead to ignore them.
__________________
Donny

Support your local hot rod shop!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dontlifttoshift For This Useful Post:
Gmachine1911 (03-08-2021), ProTouring442 (03-20-2021)
  #9  
Old 03-10-2021, 06:50 AM
Hydratech®'s Avatar
Hydratech® Hydratech® is offline
Supporting Manufacturer

HydratechBraking.com

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Music City
Posts: 409
Thanks: 3
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
Default Well, I guess you still don't get it... Never will, and just want to fight...



Look, I understand that you have a small shop and therefore have to budget time with your projects carefully. I have been there before with Paul's Performance Shop, my first little shop in the mean streets of Detroit 30 years ago. You have ordered in a few systems from us over the years and we have never had any reasons to lock horns before. Covid hits like a freight train, causing delays with most EVERY manufacturer out there. Even the corporate giant, Wilwood, went into lengthy back orders, with you also noting that you had to wait 4 months for a StopTech order. So after publicly explaining Hydratech's delays very candidly and extensively, along with also sincerely apologizing for the delays, you decide to blast me. Looking back, I see that I should have never bothered going into the extensive explanation. I should have just stated that it was shipped and left it at that, blowing off all of your various sarcastic comments in Ken's build thread, then just barring you from doing any further business with us the next time you needed something. Lesson learned - some people will attack and run with it when you tell them things they really didn't need to know. I was always comfortable in Lateral-G since before its inception, now that is no longer the case. I have received no support from people who I thought were here for me, going from hero to zero just like that. Maybe it is me, though I stand firm in my Detroit based beliefs. Or maybe people see that Hydratech is no longer in Detroit, now located in Tennessee, and perceive us to be somehow lesser for it.

My guy Jim, an ex circle track and drag racer in his 70's, is the good man that handles the retail sales and public communications here at Hydratech. He had reported that you where becoming more and more PRICKly to deal with in your communications (yes, that means more than one communication). I reviewed the scenario with your order and reported back to Jim with estimated timing, which he then passed along to you. Ultimately, we delivered only a short week later than the conversation you had with Jim had initially estimated.

So hmmm, why did I get so angry with you? When Ken groused that he had not received his brake assist system yet, stating that it was getting ridiculous in the vendor feedback section, I did not know who he was. After he posted back stating that it was an order placed by Donny at Frame Up Wheel Works, I looked into it and saw that it was YOUR order - THE guy that Jim reported to me as being a rattlesnake. I have a very low tolerance for anybody that gets Jim worked up, as he is a good, calm mannered man. If a customer gets Jim soured (which takes a lot), it gets back to me. I then decided to look at the build thread, and what I saw in post after post ragging about still not having the hydroboost with your particularly toxic comments just lit my fuse. Realizing it was you behind Ken's post, getting thoroughly pissed about what I saw in the build thread is why I did not respond immediately. I had become embittered with the remarks on the forum, in conjunction with you rattling Jim on the phone. I determined the best response was going to be the explanation post, with news of the system being completed along with an actual image of the system.

Be it known that Jody, the owner of Lateral-G, had decided to place a copy of my post from the vendor feedback section into Ken's build thread - I did not post it there. Jody's reasoning was that he deemed it a good read, one that would help everyone see the facts better as to why the system had been delayed.

What did you do just about immediately after reading my sincere and apologetic post? Let's go over this one more time:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showpos...&postcount=107

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthr...=58865&page=11

Quote:
Glad you posted that here so I don't have to wait for my reply to post in feedback..
YOU SARCASTICALLY SAID THAT YOU WERE PLEASED TO SEE THAT I HAD POSTED IN THE BUILD THREAD SO THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PATIENTLY WAIT FOR MODERATOR REVIEW TO POST A RESPONSE IN THE VENDOR FEEDBACK SECTION, NOW BEING ABLE TO JUMP ON ME IMMEDIATELY - NICE, WHAT A SOLID CITIZEN YOU ARE.

Quote:
I am sorry for everything you have been through, however, it was more important to garner sympathy than to simply reply to my PM at 7:45 this morning asking for a status update. That says a lot. You could have spent the morning helping poor Jim answer the phone and deal with all those irate customers instead of telling us about your feet.
EXCUSE ME FOR NOT SEEING YOUR P/M AT 7:45AM, AS I WAS IN THE MIDST OF COMPOSING THE LARGE AND DETAILED EXPLANATION POST. NOTE THAT I MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT NEED OR WANT YOUR SYMPATHY. WHAT A COMPLETELY VILE THING TO SAY ABOUT MY INJURIES.

Quote:
When Ken posted in feedback last week you requested more information and he gave it to you. No follow up on your end.
When I have left messages inquiring about the status of this order I never heard anything back.
When I did get through, I got "two more weeks"
REALIZING IT WAS YOUR ORDER, I SAW EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DEALING WITH, KNOWING DAMN WELL THAT JIM HAD COMMUNICATED ALL TO YOU PROPERLY. THIS WAS A PURPOSEFUL JAB AT ME IN A VENDOR FEEDBACK SECTION BY YOUR CUSTOMER. YOU KNEW DAMN GOOD AND WELL THAT WE WERE DOING EVERYTHING WE COULD TO GET YOUR ORDER SERVICED BY SPEAKING WITH JIM. YOU JUST DIDN'T LIKE THE REPORT AND STARTED IN WITH YOUR TACTICS AND ANTICS.

Quote:
When I was told it would ship tomorrow and it didn't nobody could be bothered to supply an answer......even now, you built in an excuse as to why it won't ship today as your shipping department is backed up.
THE RESPOSE WAS PROVIDED IN THE EXPLANATION / APOLOGY I POSTED. YOU WERE SO INTO YOUR RANT ON THE 4TH THAT YOU WENT OFF HALF COCKED, AS THE UPS TRACKING IMAGE I PROVIDED IN THE BUILD THREAD PROVED THAT IT SHIPPED THE SAME DAY.

Quote:
The failure isn't the delivery time. The failure is the complete disregard for the customer and that was in your control the whole time.
YOU ARE STILL CONFUSING DELAYS IN DELIVERY WITH CUSTOMER SERVICE. CUSTOMER SERVICE IS KEEPING YOU INFORMED OF WHY THE DELAYS WERE OCCURING, WHICH WAS THE CASE. YOU WERE WELCOME TO CANCEL YOUR ORDER AT ANY POINT. YOUR CHOICE WAS TO KEEP THE ORDER LIVE BUT TO INSTEAD SLAM US IN KEN'S BUILD THREAD AND ALSO BADGER AND HARASS US. THE FAILURE HERE WAS HOW YOU HANDLED YOURSELF.


Now further to your most recent "deposit":

Quote:
I won't even address your drivel about definitions and punishing customers.....or the personal insults that you felt were necessary in your "professional" reply.
THIS READS MORE LIKE YOU WON'T ACCEPT ANY BLAME, BEING COMPLETELY SELF RIGHTEOUS, WILLING TO FIGHT UNTIL YOU PERCEIVE YOU HAVE BEEN VINDICATED - DONNY CAN DO NO WRONG. DONNY IS THE VICTIM HERE. SERIOUSLY?

Quote:
I was informed that there was a covid shutdown at the machine shop and was told two more weeks until my unit shipped. That was January 12th. Nearly 3 months from the date that you took my money and 3 weeks after the date I was told it would ship. That was my first contact since placing the order. Tell me I'm not patient.
PLACING YOUR ORDER FOR A SYSTEM IS BEING BILLED FOR YOUR ORDER, TERMS ACCEPTED BY YOU WHILE PLACING YOUR ORDER. WE DID NOT "TAKE" YOUR MONEY, IT WAS PROVIDED TO US BY YOU AT THE TIME THE ORDER WAS PLACED. THE DELAYS IN PRODUCING YOUR ORDER HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED VERY THROUGHLY. THE REASON YOU BECAME IRRITATED IS BECAUSE IT CROSSED YOUR THRESHOLD OF WHAT YOU DEEMED OF THE SITUATION. DID YOU GET PUNKY AND UNRULY, SLAMMING THE OTHER COMPANIES THAT HAD LONG DELAYS IN ANY OTHER THREADS? NOT THAT I HAVE SEEN IN REVIEWING YOUR HISTORY OF POSTING ON LATERAL-G. BUT HYDRATECH, A SUPPORTING MANUFACTURER CONTRIBUTING GOOD WILL SINCE SCOTT GULBRANSON FORMED LATERAL-G, WAS FAIR GAME - NICE...

Quote:
After that two weeks, I followed up on the order. I was told plates were in and it would take two more weeks to assemble. The next conversation was when Jim said it would ship Friday or Monday. Ken was sitting right in my office for that one. When that didn't happen, I needed to know why and Ken deserved to know why.
SO YOU GOT PISSED WHEN YOU COULDN'T GET THROUGH TO JIM AT THE EXACT TIME THAT YOU WANTED TO BECAUSE KEN WAS SITTING THERE? THAT CONSTITUTES A SERIOUS GRIEVANCE? IN YOUR BOOK, IT APPEARS THAT IT DOES. WELL, I SUPPOSE I SHOULD START LOOKING FOR AN ADDITIONAL MAN TO PUT ON THE COMMUNICATIONS. HE MAY NOT HAVE ANY BETTER ANSWERS TO PROVIDE, MAYBE EVEN LESSER, BUT AT LEAST THE PHONE CALL WOULD BE PICKED UP. HMMM...

Quote:
I am perfectly capable of sending an email. Why would I do so when you website clearly instructs:

Your Quote:
Due to very high e-mail volumes lately, we do ask that you please call us to discuss your needs. We are working to answer as many e-mails as possible in the most thorough and comprehensive manner in the order they are received, though are currently looking at 48-72 hours average response time.

Why would I choose to wait 48-72 hours when I could potentially get an answer right now with the customer sitting in front of me? If a company doesn't return a phone call, what faith would I have in their ability to return an email? Why is HydraTech's lack of communication my fault because I did not choose the right way to communicate.
THIS IS AN OBVIOUS ALTERNATE FORM OF CONTACT. YOU HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH JIM BEFORE VIA E-MAIL - IT IS EVEN HOW YOU CONTACTED HIM TO PLACE YOUR ORDER. AGAIN, IT IS YOUR IMPATIENCE THAT YOU COULDN'T GET THROUGH ON THE PHONE WHEN YOU WANTED TO. APPARENTLY I SEE THAT I SHOULD SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY FINDING AN ADDITIONAL PERSON TO MAN THE PHONES.

Quote:
Please show evidence of PM after PM after PM from me. I sent one. I called hourly when no one returned my calls, in hopes that I could get through and talk to a person......only after I was told it would ship on a specific day and it didn't. If it makes me abnormal to want answers for myself and my customer, so be it.
YOUR PM'S WENT INTO DELETE / DELETE / DELETE / DELETE... UNLESS THERE IS SOME WAY OF RETREIVING DELETED P/M'S, I MISSED THE CHANCE TO TAKE A SCREEN SHOT OF MY INBOX BEFORE "TAKING OUT THE TRASH". AS FAR AS YOUR CALL AFTER CALL AFTER CALL AFTER CALLS, YOUR OBVIOUS PERSONALITY WAS OFFENDED THAT YOUR CALL WAS NOT BEING TAKEN.


Quote:
I am sorry that you felt I was making light of your situation, that wasn't my intention. The point was that none of that had anything to do with what had transpired in the past month.
APOLOGY NOT ACCEPTED AT THIS POINT - BACK PEDDLING ON THIS NOW IS TOO LATE... ONCE AGAIN, AS EXPLAINED, MY SERIOUS INJURIES WERE WHERE THE SUBSTANTIAL DELAYS HAD STARTED, AS I AM, AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, THE KEY MAN IN THE PRODUCTION OF THESE SYSTEMS. MY HANDS HAVE BEEN ON EACH AND EVERY UNIT EVER PRODUCED OVER THE LAST 21 YEARS. MYSELF FRUSTRATINGLY WORKING OUT OF A WHEEL CHAIR FOR 3+ MONTHS IN PRODUCTION WAS A MAJOR SET BACK FOR THE TEAM, DESPITE THEIR EFFORTS TO HELP AND COVER AS BEST THEY COULD. EVERYTHING EXPLAINED HAS LED TO THE CURRENT, TODAY, HERE, AND NOW, CONTINUED AND TREMENDOUSLY COMPOUNDED BY COVID CRISIS.

Quote:
The failure isn't the delivery time. The failure is the complete disregard for the customer and that was in your control the whole time.

It rings even truer now, as you once again missed the opportunity to take responsibility for this and continue to miss the point in those simple words. You could have avoided all of your anger by keeping your customer informed, you chose instead to ignore them.
I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING RELATED TO MY COMPANY. I HAVE ABSOLUTE DIRECT CONTROL OVER ALL ASPECTS OF THE OPERATIONS. I SAID IT BEFORE, AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. YOUR CONTEMPT HAS PROMPTED US TO STOP TAKING YOUR CALLS, AND HAS RESULTED IN BEING DISBARRED FROM EVER DOING BUSINESS WITH US AGAIN.

I HAVE APOLOGIZED FOR YOUR TROUBLES - THIS IS NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL. COVID HAS MONKEYED EVERYTHING UP, AND AS MENTIONED, WE ARE WORKING AS HARD AS WE CAN TO WORK THROUGH ALL OF THE PRODUCTION DELAYS.

Donny, knock it off already. You have weighed in on the scenario plenty.

There IS a difference - it is quality and engineering!

Thank you for choosing Hydratech!
__________________
There IS a difference - Thank you for choosing Hydratech!

Paul M. Clark
Founder / Master Engineer
Hydratech Braking Systems ®
www.hydratechbraking.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2021, 11:26 AM
dontlifttoshift's Avatar
dontlifttoshift dontlifttoshift is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Beach Park. IL
Posts: 868
Thanks: 6
Thanked 93 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Vindication? Project much? That was the point in your whole explanation post, to absolve you from any responsibility of failure.

Nobody wants to fight. I have only stated facts while you continue to embellish and mischaracterize the situation. At this point you can't even keep the story straight so I am not rehashing it again.

Quote:
DID YOU GET PUNKY AND UNRULY, SLAMMING THE OTHER COMPANIES THAT HAD LONG DELAYS IN ANY OTHER THREADS
Nope. They gave me a lead time. If that lead time passed without shipping product, they responded honestly and promptly to my requests about the status of my order. When they told me it would ship tomorrow, it did.

Quote:
YOUR PM'S WENT INTO DELETE / DELETE / DELETE / DELETE... UNLESS THERE IS SOME WAY OF RETREIVING DELETED P/M'S,
That is an outright lie.
__________________
Donny

Support your local hot rod shop!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Lateral-g.net