Brake NEWBS "must read" - Page 2 - Lateral-g Forums

ccracin · #11 04-05-2010, 12:03 PM

Go back to your "Shed" and build a test rig. I want PROOF! I'm a NEWB and I'm completely confused. I hope you're happy!

nullshine · #12 04-05-2010, 05:39 PM

Removed.

**GregWeld** · #13 04-05-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccracin

Go back to your "Shed" and build a test rig. I want PROOF! I'm a NEWB and I'm completely confused. I hope you're happy!

Chad -- I was going to build a complete M/C test station - and have it on display at all the GG shows... imagine if you could sit in a seat - grab a steering wheel and actually COMPARE various M/C (say all the various Wilwoods) and see a gauge in front of you with the PRESSURE you're making at the calipers... that way you could actually equate the pedal feel - to the clamping pressure.

But sadly - for YOU (grin) - I'm really busy helping my ASU senior do a rough draft on the comparative cooling in the noon day sun of a fresh Chihuahua dump vs a Newfoundland... and am just flat out of time.

**GregWeld** · #14 04-05-2010, 06:33 PM

@ NIN --- JAMES....

A question like that should be asked of the various manufactures -- and they all have tech help. I am not an engineer and have no knowledge of the workings of one M/C over another.

I've helped fix many of my buddies "messes" (I'm mostly a hot rodder - and hot rodders have more bad info in their heads than good!)... And when I'm doing my own cars (too many builds to count - like north of 30) or helping a friend - I just try to stick to the basics... bore - pedal ratio - lines... and we usually end up happier.

Funny statement that comes up all the time - especially with "newbs".

I put disc brakes up front and I have a power booster - but I'm not really "impressed" with them.... Maybe I'll put on one of those dual 8" boosters...

I ask what they don't "like" about the new system -- and they usually don't like the pedal feel. So we'll start with the basics... as in -- how much vacuum they're pulling - what MC is being used - what's their pedal ratio. For a newb -- there's little point in going into a bunch of techno discussion.

On Lat G and other sites -- there's LOTS and LOTS of technical discussions about pads - and pad knockback - and bias adjustments - and caliper stiffness - and rotor size...

Funny though --- nobody ever buys a simple pressure gauge kit to see what pressure they're actually making... a kit can be bought for like $45.

ccracin · #15 04-05-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Chad -- I was going to build a complete M/C test station - and have it on display at all the GG shows... imagine if you could sit in a seat - grab a steering wheel and actually COMPARE various M/C (say all the various Wilwoods) and see a gauge in front of you with the PRESSURE you're making at the calipers... that way you could actually equate the pedal feel - to the clamping pressure.

But sadly - for YOU (grin) - I'm really busy helping my ASU senior do a rough draft on the comparative cooling in the noon day sun of a fresh Chihuahua dump vs a Newfoundland... and am just flat out of time.

You guys are behind out there. My 5 year old twins did that paper last week! We also calculated the methane production over time!

Actually I thought the brake pressure gauge on a comparative setup would be great. I think Wilwood and Baer should jump on this. Good article as long as people do as they should with all things and take all in moderation.

**GregWeld** · #16 04-05-2010, 06:41 PM

Forgot the thread is for "newbs" ---

The pressure gauge can be screwed into the BLEED screw... after you remove the bleed screw - you install an ADAPTOR (various for various calipers) and have a short piece of flex hose with a gauge on the end of it.

SSBC sells a kit like this for about $50 or so.

I'm sure you can spend a little or a lot on "pro" gauge sets. Just google or check Jegs or Summit etc.

ccracin · #17 04-05-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld

@ NIN --- JAMES....

A question like that should be asked of the various manufactures -- and they all have tech help. I am not an engineer and have no knowledge of the workings of one M/C over another.

I've helped fix many of my buddies "messes" (I'm mostly a hot rodder - and hot rodders have more bad info in their heads than good!)... And when I'm doing my own cars (too many builds to count - like north of 30) or helping a friend - I just try to stick to the basics... bore - pedal ratio - lines... and we usually end up happier.

Funny statement that comes up all the time - especially with "newbs".

I put disc brakes up front and I have a power booster - but I'm not really "impressed" with them.... Maybe I'll put on one of those dual 8" boosters...

I ask what they don't "like" about the new system -- and they usually don't like the pedal feel. So we'll start with the basics... as in -- how much vacuum they're pulling - what MC is being used - what's their pedal ratio. For a newb -- there's little point in going into a bunch of techno discussion.

On Lat G and other sites -- there's LOTS and LOTS of technical discussions about pads - and pad knockback - and bias adjustments - and caliper stiffness - and rotor size...

Funny though --- nobody ever buys a simple pressure gauge kit to see what pressure they're actually making... a kit can be bought for like $45.

Look in any top running circle track car and you will find brake pressure gauges. It is an absolute necessity for proper tuning. With them, you don't have to be a braking engineer. You make adjustments record the settings and take a drive. When you get what you like on the street make note of the pressures. Then the same for the track. I support Greg completely with the gauges suggestion. Cheap tuning tool! Also, check Speedway motors. They are hard to beat on this stuff.

**GregWeld** · #18 04-05-2010, 07:01 PM

Chad ---

Alex will get an A+ now! 'Cause I'm going to have him add the section on methane!! THANKS!!

Seriously -- the thread was really intended for a guy to read that article and "somewhat" get a handle on all this various info - like bore sizes and what that means etc.

I didn't want to start a "boring" (pun) thread on high tech math and all the various nuances of a bullet proof track style brake system... So I get a bit annoyed when people start with the "well if you jack B into A and deduct the length of a piece of rope...." and the thread goes all over the place...

It was more a "hey" -- if you're interested -- here's a pretty decent article that breaks (pun intended) it all down.... and you can go from there. No biggie.

**GregWeld** · #19 04-05-2010, 07:11 PM

Chad ---

SERIOUSLY!!

(quote)Actually I thought the brake pressure gauge on a comparative setup would be great. I think Wilwood and Baer should jump on this. Good article as long as people do as they should with all things and take all in moderation. (end quote)

I'm SHOCKED that they don't have/include a display like this at their shows... especially when they're doing "retail" shows. It could be pretty simple - with maybe a 1 1/8" - a 1" and a 7/8" and a side by side MC/balance bar set up.

4 cheap adjustable seats - 4 cheap wheels - 4 pedals - and 4 LARGE pressure gauges.... you could run these on a two across or link them for 4 side by side... a guy could sit down press the pedal and see what it feels like and what braking he's getting out of it... build it all out of tubing -- and put it on wheels to roll in and out of their trailers. It might save them a HUGE amount of time on educating consumers about all of this stuff. They could also incorporate in the actual build - how lines should be run - prop valve placement (like - to the rears) so they could show the increase or reduction by tuning it... and they could demonstrate proper pedal ratio too and how that affects the pressure made. It would be kinda cool to see 'em build something like that.

ccracin · #20 04-05-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Chad ---

SERIOUSLY!!

(quote)Actually I thought the brake pressure gauge on a comparative setup would be great. I think Wilwood and Baer should jump on this. Good article as long as people do as they should with all things and take all in moderation. (end quote)

I'm SHOCKED that they don't have/include a display like this at their shows... especially when they're doing "retail" shows. It could be pretty simple - with maybe a 1 1/8" - a 1" and a 7/8" and a side by side MC/balance bar set up.

4 cheap adjustable seats - 4 cheap wheels - 4 pedals - and 4 LARGE pressure gauges.... you could run these on a two across or link them for 4 side by side... a guy could sit down press the pedal and see what it feels like and what braking he's getting out of it... build it all out of tubing -- and put it on wheels to roll in and out of their trailers. It might save them a HUGE amount of time on educating consumers about all of this stuff. They could also incorporate in the actual build - how lines should be run - prop valve placement (like - to the rears) so they could show the increase or reduction by tuning it... and they could demonstrate proper pedal ratio too and how that affects the pressure made. It would be kinda cool to see 'em build something like that.

I agree with your previous comments about the read. That's why I tried to lighten the load!

You know, as for the above. Since I happen to have some modeling and design skills and you happen to have some really cool tools and some time...................hmmmmmmm

In all seriousness if anyone has contacts at either of these places, this is a no brainer.