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Old 02-09-2013, 08:10 PM
Lous69 Lous69 is offline
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Default PWM cooling fan(s) control using ECM

I am trying to figure out what would be required to set up Pulse Width Modulated cooling fan control using the E67 ECU that came with my LSA crate motor.

The ECU that GM Performance sells to go with the LSA crate engine (part number 19259293) comes set up for On/Off fan control. I would prefer PWM fan control.

Of course I could find a stand alone PWM fan controller and run it independent of the ECU but I would prefer to have the ECU control the fans using more inputs than just the engine temp. (Such as AC pressure and ambient temperature).

Here is what I am wondering:

Can I use the PWM fan control module (Part number 10377609) that is used in the ZR 1 Corvette which also uses the E67 ECU and drive it with a signal from my ECU just like the ZR 1 Corvette does?

I'm assuming I would need to find the correct pin on the ECU and add a wire. If so, I have no problem with doing that. Does anyone know which pin that is on the E67 ECU?

I think the Trailblazer SS also used the E67 ECU. It uses pin #64 for PWM control of the cooling fan clutch. Might that be the same one the ZR 1 uses to drive the PWM fan control module?

Would the algorithms for PWM cooling fan control already be in my ECU or would they be completely absent? If absent, could I have a tuner grab that subroutine from a ZR 1 Corvette program and install it into my ECU?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

Last edited by Lous69; 02-09-2013 at 08:33 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:45 PM
mikels mikels is offline
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Simple answer is, yes - you can control a PWM fan controller with GM E67 controller (or E38 or E40).

Wiring is fairly simple - just need to wire PWM output from controller (can find wiring mech's for Corvette online pretty easily).

Obviously calibration needs to be changed as well from what controller was delivered with. Crate engine is disrete output, and you need PWM. There are several variables that need to be changed to make this work properly (including PWM frequency).

Fan output duty cycle can then be calibrated based on these inputs:
-Engine coolant temp - from ECT sensor
-AC pressure (will need to add production pressure sensor and wire as well)
-Intake air temp - IAT sensor in MAF

You can also calibrate 'after run' on fan to keep fan running at lower level after hot shut-down to reduce heat soak.

HP Tuners allows access to all these variables.

Dave

Dave
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Lous69 Lous69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikels View Post
Simple answer is, yes - you can control a PWM fan controller with GM E67 controller (or E38 or E40).

Wiring is fairly simple - just need to wire PWM output from controller (can find wiring mech's for Corvette online pretty easily).

Obviously calibration needs to be changed as well from what controller was delivered with. Crate engine is disrete output, and you need PWM. There are several variables that need to be changed to make this work properly (including PWM frequency).

Fan output duty cycle can then be calibrated based on these inputs:
-Engine coolant temp - from ECT sensor
-AC pressure (will need to add production pressure sensor and wire as well)
-Intake air temp - IAT sensor in MAF

You can also calibrate 'after run' on fan to keep fan running at lower level after hot shut-down to reduce heat soak.

HP Tuners allows access to all these variables.

Dave

Dave
Dave, Thank you very much for your reply. You've given me a new head of steam to figure out how to accomplish the mission.

If I understand your response it means I need to:

1.Buy the PWM fan control module used on all C6 Corvettes

2. Find a pin out diagram for the E67 ECM like the one that came with my LSA crate engine. Best bet would be the pinout for the C6 ZR1 corvette.

3. Find a wiring diagram for a ZR 1 C6 Corvette that shows the wiring between the E67 ECM and the PWM fan control module.

4. Add a wire from the PWM signal output pin on my E67 ECM and run it to the PWM fan control module.

5. Purchase AC pressure sensor used in the C6 corvette and install in my system.

6. Have my ECM programmed to provide the PWM output signals I prefer to the output pin I added the wire to.

Did I understand correctly?

Thanks again for your willingness to point me in the right direction.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:01 AM
mikels mikels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lous69 View Post
1.Buy the PWM fan control module used on all C6 Corvettes

2. Find a pin out diagram for the E67 ECM like the one that came with my LSA crate engine. Best bet would be the pinout for the C6 ZR1 corvette.

3. Find a wiring diagram for a ZR 1 C6 Corvette that shows the wiring between the E67 ECM and the PWM fan control module.

4. Add a wire from the PWM signal output pin on my E67 ECM and run it to the PWM fan control module.

5. Purchase AC pressure sensor used in the C6 corvette and install in my system.

6. Have my ECM programmed to provide the PWM output signals I prefer to the output pin I added the wire to.

Just add step 5.5 - wire AC pressure sensor to ECM (which will also be on wiring mech for ZR1 Corvette) and you've got it.

Be sure to check origional crate engine harness - they run Fan 1 and Fan 2 output to fan relay - you need Fan 1 to go to PWM control module - and have fan power leads NOT running through relay - just a fuse.

Corvette fan (400 watt) pulls ~32 amps peak, so size fuse, wiring appropriately.

SRX fan (850 watt) we've used on Stielow's latest cars pulls ~65 amps peak.

Dave
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:16 PM
Lous69 Lous69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikels View Post
Just add step 5.5 - wire AC pressure sensor to ECM (which will also be on wiring mech for ZR1 Corvette) and you've got it.

Be sure to check origional crate engine harness - they run Fan 1 and Fan 2 output to fan relay - you need Fan 1 to go to PWM control module - and have fan power leads NOT running through relay - just a fuse.

Corvette fan (400 watt) pulls ~32 amps peak, so size fuse, wiring appropriately.

SRX fan (850 watt) we've used on Stielow's latest cars pulls ~65 amps peak.

Dave
Thank you very much for your advice Dave.

I'm curious if you would know this:

Does the software subroutine to drive a cooling fan PWM output signal already exist in the E67 ECM that came with my LSA crate motor such that it just needs to be turned on after we add the wires mentioned above or will we need to first install a program or "operating system" from a ZR1 application then modify that program with a tune for my LSA motor?

I'm wondering if the later approach would also require turning off a lot of other subroutines that the ZR1 application program or "operating system" will be looking for.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.
Lou
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:28 AM
mikels mikels is offline
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Algorithm for PWM fan control is already in your software - just need to select 'PWM fan control' instead of 'descrete fan control' - then set calibrations to how you want fan to operate (% duty cycle based on ECT, AC pressure, IAT).

Dave
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:26 PM
BBPanel BBPanel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikels View Post
Simple answer is, yes - you can control a PWM fan controller with GM E67 controller (or E38 or E40)....Dave
Dave, or anyone, does this apply to the earlier LS1 ECU (411) as well?

And Lous69, are you also wanting to do this so you can run the oem compressor with a VA system (of which most people say not to do because primarily there isn't any pressure control)?

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I'm sure others are wondering the same thing - could be of value for a lot of us. If its doable but a completely different situation I can start another thread. Thanks. -Bob
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Lous69 Lous69 is offline
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Originally Posted by BBPanel View Post
Dave, or anyone, does this apply to the earlier LS1 ECU (411) as well?

And Lous69, are you also wanting to do this so you can run the oem compressor with a VA system (of which most people say not to do because primarily there isn't any pressure control)?

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I'm sure others are wondering the same thing - could be of value for a lot of us. If its doable but a completely different situation I can start another thread. Thanks. -Bob
No. We are using the Vintage Air Compressor.
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2013, 08:32 PM
mikels mikels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lous69 View Post
We are going with the E67 controller along with at least one C6 fan control module and the C6 AC pressure switch as you outline above to supplement the Vintage Air controls as far as request for fans is concerned.. We have two questions:

1. We are wondering if we have to use a body control module to enable the AC pressure switch to provide a fan request signal to the ECM or if it can do so directly without a body control module?

2. We know you doubt we need 2 modules for our dual fans but if we end up going that way, do you suppose the ECM will care that there are two modules receiving it's PWM signal vs one?
We are doubtful that it would be an issue since the ECM is just switching to ground but thought we should ask.

Thanks again for your help!
Lou
1 -Does not need BCM input in addition to AC pressure. Between all inputs for fan DC request, largest wins so just need to have AC pressure switch and cals populated for fan % vs. AC pressure.

2 -I've never tried running 2 PWM modules from the single output driver, so can't really say if it'll work or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BBPanel View Post
Dave, or anyone, does this apply to the earlier LS1 ECU (411) as well?. -Bob
All LS1 controllers I've worked with (P01, P59) are set for descrete fan drivers, not PWM. Can always set up to run parallel/series for 2 speed operation.

It's been so long since I've worked with one of those (outside a car it came in) I'd have to look to see if can run AC pressure switch in to control fan output.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:07 PM
cocoabill cocoabill is offline
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Default Need help with PWM Fan module wiring

Has anyone got a PWM fan module to work? I have an LS2 motor from an 05 vette that I would like to wire with PWM fan control. I have the correct module for the E40 ECM but can not find the required pigtail or a wiring diagram that matches the module.

There are 4 main vertical pins on the module 1-4 labeled M-, 31, 30, and M+ there are 3 horizontal pins 5-7 that are not really labeled but may be PWM input.
I have attached link to an image of module.

Anybody know how this is wired and the part number for the connector?

Thanks for your help.
Bill


Last edited by cocoabill; 03-19-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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