Nailed it!

The post has been updated

I've been on these forums for quite a few years now and one of the things I have learned is that you should do your shopping discretely using PM's and never advertise/flaunt the price you pay for anything on a vendor supported forum. I've also learned to fully exhaust the search functions before asking for help. Both of these will help keep you from getting into exchanges like this...

Don

Thanks Don, I have been on these forums for while as well. My intention was not to advertise or flaunt, I just wanted Smitty to understand why I did not buy from him. Nothing personal.

My apologies for my post. It was NOT directed right at you. I do the best I can to be helpful, and also do the best I can, when possible, to support those with knowledge and advice that help me.

I may not always have the best answer or greatest knowledge of things, but if you ever need help at the track, and I'm there, I know the DSE stuff fairly well and would gladly lend a helping hand!

This should be the cross member you need, first gen T-56 since the subframe rails are based on the first gen:

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...rod/prd257.htm

Don

it was just a little jab. I still provided info on headers which work very well.
We do sell a ton of parts and a lot of times provide all of the parts for a customers build because we know what works.

Gents,

I got the speedtech crossmember and despite it fitting the frame, the wierd "L-Brackets", go pretty vertical off the frame. This doesnt seem like it will clear the floor. Does anyone have actual expereince using this X-member and possibly photos?

Here is the 67-69 Speed-Tech X-member on my 70-81 Frame. Fits good, but the floor to bracket does not.

I think they are upside down.

Don

Nope, he's got it assembled correctly.

My wife's first gen has one... the vertical brackets pretty much touch the floor but I think this may have to do with the half height body bushings. I plan to eventually replace this crossmember because I don't like the amount of flex it has.

Yep, my mistake.

Thanks,
Don

I hoped so, but I have seen installed photos on the 1st gen and this is how they are oriented. Ben also has pictures posted in the new 2" header post as the same orientation.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=48446

Guys I really need some help. I recently got word that I'm going to be transferred and I don't know what to do for an X-member now.

Probably too late at this point, but today I just dropped the body (69) onto the DSE subframe with motor/trans installed. The brackets on the ATS crossmember are up against the floor. I have the DSE std height mounts. Tim- what trans cross member do you plan to run on Deb's car?

On a second note- I used the 1" setback mounts, and the 102 FAST intake is against the firewall. So I dropped the sub back out for crossmember and engine stand replacement ...

the ATS one works perfect

The mounts are supposed to be up at the floor. there should be 1/8 - 3/16 gap but that is all.
Just re red the OP first post and the car is a second gen so that is probably the issue the AST Cross member shown a couple post back is a first gen X Member and the second gen has a different shape floor and the side brackets are shorter. I an thinking that is where the confusion is.

I have the ats x member and the brackets hit the floor on my 69 w DSE subframe, just as Tim mentioned above on his wife's car. As I was tightening the subrame bolts, they got tight & I noticed the brackets up against the floor. Stock height DSE body mounts. Maybe I'm missing something...

I think part of the confusion comes from DSE saying their second gen subframe uses a first gen crossmember. At least that is my understanding.

Don

Humm. I know we installed our X member on a 69 with a DSE sub here in the shop.
the second gen we have not worked on, I know our ATS side mounts fo ra second gen are substantially shorter as the floor on a second gen is a lot closer at the floor. it would not surprise me if the ATS first gen X member didn't fit the second gen.

I have used your crossmember on several first gen cars but all had stock subframe. It was close to floor but cleared. I'm kind of at a loss what to try next. Would your 2nd gen brackets work on first gen x member? Heres a few pics. Was hard to get the camera up in there to get a good shot. The left side is with the subframe bolts tightened down all the way. Right side the is about 1/4" between body bushing & floor.

I am not sure, Great Answer right, it may be that DSE has changed the height of the subframe where the Cross member is (compared to the stock subframe) if the cross member side brackets were moved back (drill new holes) would it then fit? or ar the side brackets just too tall?
I would have to check the OAW of the second gen mounting holes (on a stock sub frame are 32" a first gen is somewhere around 30") so with out knowing the width on the DSE frame hard to answer the question. is the secondgen DSE frame the same width as the first? I would think not?

I just ordered a crossmember thru BRP. It looks to have clearance where I need it. Will test fit this weekend and report back.

Well, the muscle rods crossmember does not fit either. I could have modified the frame brackets to make that part work, but the headers were right in line with the cross bar. Top 1/3rd of the opening was blocked and would only be worse if I needed to shim the tailshaft on the trans up. Next I will try the G-force and possibly the bowler. This sucks- what are you guys using for a crossmember in a first gen DSE frame??

Don,

Appears to be true, The frames bolt hole spacing and frame width to accomdate the crossmember is exactly like a 1st gen. Based on the 1st gen information here, I have not even checked to see if a second gen crossmember is the same width.

second gen should be wider. both in body mounts and X member

PM SENT!

Yeah, I figured as much. Just looking for a good 1st gen x-member that will fit my sec gen floor. My Speedtech crossmember is now collecting dust.

I'll be swapping in the G-force X member in the next day or 2. Its a stout piece and looks to have more clearance in the area of the frame bracket compared to the speedtech. Will report back with pics by end of the week.

Funny -- building a car actually takes some skill.... there's no catalog that lists all the parts numbers and suppliers for your particular build. Sometimes you buy parts and then you must modify them to fit your application -- or for clearance... or maybe it's because nobody really makes a part for your combination.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude or pick on you... I'm just making an honest statement here.

Building these cars is HARD.... it costs WAY more money than you'll imagine. It takes WAY more time than anyone can allow for. Sourcing and waiting for parts is all just a part of the process. Suppliers can't possibly know everything there is to know. Sometimes you have to mock stuff up - measure the hell out of it - and then find some part (or combo of parts) that is close... without knowing measurements etc - that's nearly impossible. You won't have measurements or know what you're going to run in to until you've mocked stuff up about half a dozen times. Even then something will go sideways that you didn't allow for or see or think of.... That's when you get to undo the modification you made to some part and do it over a better/different way.

If it was easy - everyone would do it and their car would only take 6 months to build and cost half as much as they told their wife it was going to be.


Don't get frustrated -- it's a hobby.... enjoy the trip... pat yourself on the back when you mastered some stupid little "problem" -- don't make it a problem -- be the solution. You'll enjoy it more. Stand back and know that you solved for "X".

DSE subframe
 

I have a dse subframe and agree with some in this thread that the subframe should come with a few more extras like crossmember and a second option for headers that are more affordable. My 2 cents nate

And some just come with all that stuff

:y0!:

Everybody should pay taxes but they don't. It's not like this info isn't readily available when you buy the frame.

I can tell you this, the DSE subframe was one of the favorite aspects of my car. It made it feel modern and factory like. Big expenditure, I agree.

We used a modified 1969 TH400 xmember on a DSE frame. We had to cut off the trans mount perch and re-weld it. Cheap and easy job.

I don't think I saw this thread until today. DSE's first and second-gen clips both take the first gen crossmember. We found this out when we picked up the phone and called them after a customer was having a fitment issue.

Today, we offer solutions for the 67-69 and 70-73 F-Body and the 68-74 X-Body. Direct-fit transmission crossmembers are available for Turbo 350, Turbo 400, Powerglide, 700R4, 200-4R, 4L60, 4L65E, Muncie 4-speed, Richmond 5- or 6-speed, and many Tremec 5- or 6-speed transmissions.

Crossmembers are 1-1/4 x .120"-wall steel, dual-tube, fully enclosed structures that are stronger than OEM stamped designs and rigid enough for the vehicle to benefit from stiff polyurethane transmission mounts. Tubes are mandrel bent to provide 3" dual-exhaust clearance and to correctly position the mount for each model transmission.

Note: Installation on factory or DSE subframe requires additional adapter kit.

More Details Here:
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-157-...irect-fit.aspx

http://www.cachassisworks.com/images...922-f10_4_.jpg

PM sent.


This is exactly what was talking about in my last thread. I picked up the phone and called them too. I got the "huh" I don't know, we make custom applications,

They did not tell me the 67-69 crossmember works.

So -- Carl comes on - helps you out.... and you don't even say so much as a THANK YOU.... instead you whine about having called them without success.

Maybe it's the way you go about asking the questions - or maybe you can't explain to someone what it is you're looking for. Or maybe after a little conversation they can't wait to get you off the phone.

I think he was talking about DSE speedy :poke:

Agreed. DSE stuff is expensive, and there are other cheaper alternatives. But people still buying DSE stuff, so their stuff works, otherwise no one buys them. The information on what's needed for the frame is right on the web site. It's not a secret. I guess DSE can include a crossmember and jack up the price to cover the cost. But then there are some many different engine/tranny combo's out there, how can they know which one will work. They can't anticipate what the customers will use and design different parts for different combo's.

We're putting DSE front suspension with an 5.3/4l60e into my friend's 65 Mustang. Right off the bat, I will have to either mod the existing crossmember or build something to make it work. To me, that's the joy of car building. Did I expect DSE to come up with something that works, no. On the other hand, we bought DSE LS mounts for the Alumaframe, so I expect the LS will drop right in.