But everything on that car is custom... I don't think that is what the OP is after going by his wanting to preserve the current paint job.

Before I assume any more,

Rebelceb, what kind of a build are you after? A show car or a driver with nice components. That right there will tell you the scope of what your build will cost you.
For $60-75K (which is where you are headed with your 300 hour vision) you are not going to get a custom interior, detailed under carriage you can eat off of and a high point show winner.

THIS IS EXACTLY what happened to the 69 in our shop NOW

EVERYONE - Thinks its cheap then it is. EVERYONE

There is no way to get a guy to pour his heart and soul into something and work on it as if it was their own and yet give you a bid. In a job like this I want a guy to sweat the details.

If you want it built like a house, get a bid. I just built a nice shop in my back yard and found out it costs extra to have the trade guys clean up their own mess after wards. That's not included in the price. YEAH. really.

Years ago I had the cheaper guy tile the kitchen floor for my wife and every time I slide my dinning room table chair back I'm reminded that my floor tiles are not even level to each other. As it catches on every edge. I saved 400 bucks.

You almost always get what you pay for.

Vince you're correct, it's not apples to apples. My point was more of buying a finished or near finished car...it's been made real clear that these builds snowball and you get what you pay for....if you're just a check writer and don't care to be a part of the build why would you go through the hassle? If it was a Riddler or SEMA build I can see going through the build process and being part of the design process. To me, this is another 69 Camaro with the DSE catalog thrown at it that will never be more than what could be accomplished with simple bolt on's and an LS/trans swap.

To the op, be clear with what you want out of the car and do your homework. You'll either end up with exactly what you want for the price you're happy with or you won't. Lots of great info here, not just the thread but the site.
:thumbsup:

Always love these threads, brings out the guys that should have been on their high school debate teams, instead of chasing skirts and doing burn outs like I know they were doing.

Doing everything yourself is the only way I know of to build a high end car on the cheap. Even then, the parts listed alone is going to get you up there. Like a house, the framing, and big things are the cheap part, its when you get inside that the money starts hemorrhaging.

Figure an LS7 install sounds easy, hell they make mounts, headers etc. The little things you don't think about, dry sump tank, lines, and remote filter, are another 2K most people don't budget for, nor the labor to custom make mounts etc could end up another 2K.

I really don't think there are a lot of people that could build these cars cheaper then I do, but man I still spend a lot of cash on cars, and the hours easily get into the thousands. You build custom cars because you want to, knowing the budget can get stretched out of shape. That is why I would never barrow money to build a car, it needs to be something that you love, and can afford, because if it gets out of your comfort level, you shouldn't even start.

Just my 2 cents

Perfect!!! And I'm liven it!

Get a clear vision for the car before you write the first check. What will you do with the car? Why do you want to build it?

These guys are very knowledgable, but they own and build some high end stuff. Personally, I'd never get as deep as I did in one of these cars ever again. I had over $130,000 in mine and that included at least 1000 hours of my own labor. (Ground up restoration) Was it worth it? Today, I'd say no. I ended up with a car that was really to nice to enjoy safely. This hobby is like crack. Once you start, it's hard to pull on the reigns.

I'm with these guys, you are getting in to deep with your expectations. Make some tasteful modifications that won't cost a boat load of money. Then get out and enjoy the damn car. How many miles do you really expect to put on it? Would you like to leave it parked somewhere and not have a nervous breakdown. Could somebody lean on it? Are you willing to let it get chipped up?

I did this with mine but I needed a shrink. I sold mine for $85k before I folded it up into a retaining wall. Didn't miss it the day after... I just don't get attached to STUFF.

I'm not exactly sure what this reaction was for, but I'm also not sure what the negativity is about. I know you think you are the man around here because some of these guys bow on their knees for you, but you don't know my situation or what I am wanting to accomplish. You also haven't asked.

I came here asking a question, and wanting to know if my expectations were realistic. You seem to think they are not, but I have been open minded and honest about what I thought based on research I have done and other people I have talked to.

Even the builder said the end result should land less than the number of hours he quoted, I just wanted ideas on how out of range my expectation was and how I could "police" the hours they spend as well as I can. I have had guys reach out and offer their help and have offered their advice, along with actual builders stating what they thought a reasonable guesstimation should be.

One even said this- "don't get into a pissing match with guys telling you what's best for you when it's not their money."

That's probably the best advice I have gotten when it comes to a certain segment of this forum.

Thank you! I am absolutely not going after a total custom that does not even appear functional. I don't care about show, all I care about is go and enjoying the car.

I am after a driver with very nice components. I want a build that can do most anything I throw at it, from an occasional autocross event, cruise-ins, cars and coffee, date nights or Sunday drives. If it's a nice day during the middle of the week, and since I work from home, it may even get driven to the grocery store, to run errands, or out to lunch with a buddy and parked in a normal spot in the parking lot. I do not care about a high point show winner, I don't care about a SEMA car, I don't care about a shop flashing my car on Facebook and Instagram. I want a set of Recaro's for seats and the remainder of the interior the same as what I have in it now other than also a different dash/gauges. I don't want to be so scared it may get a rock chip that I never drive it. I want a car I can drive whenever I want, wherever I want, do what I want, and look good doing it. It may even accidentally get caught in the rain one of these days, oh the horror!

Vince, a PM is headed your way.

I am quite aware how much knowledge is here, that's why I asked. What I didn't ask for was people to be negative and give me a laundry list of their opinions about me not knowing what I want or what I don't know or that I shouldn't do this or that. I asked direct questions, some have given very honest, unbiased, and helpful answers. Others have not.

This is the most helpful post you have made in this thread as far as I am concerned.

I love the car, but I want to make it where I can do more with it and therefore enjoy it more. I know there are always surprises and I am prepared for those. I just wanted to know if I was off base in my thinking. I have an end goal and a vision for what I want, I just want to be sure I am taking the correct path to get there. I don't want an ongoing project for years. I want to get it done, over with, and be able to enjoy actually driving the car instead of working on it and making very little progress. I am newly signed up here, but I have been lurking for quite some time.

The biggest surprise you will find is that the paint isn't as good as you think and hidden rust in sections that will be removed during the installation of the components in your list. Rusty floor pan, upper cowl and frame rails are the most common "oh crap" sections.

The thing you are going to have to resist is that something better came out and that starts that perpetual snow ball that kills your budget and you get a car you are afraid to drive.

Of change-of-plans project creep. Sometimes the car just takes long enough to build that you change your mind on brakes or radiator or fan setup or something and it ends up taking a whole bunch of other items down with it. Brakes might affect spindle.. Fans might affect computer and wiring. Radiator might interfere with the a/c condenser or cooler lines or whatever it is. So many times, one revision has led to many hours backtracking.

What you asked for was peoples opinions on what a job should cost.... and that's what you got. You then went from "is this correct" to "I think it should be half that amount" <quotes are mine>. That immediately tells me a lot about you. You claim the shop that gave you the bid is "reputable" - yet you don't trust them, because you came on here questioning their bid and claiming you should be able to get it done in far less time.

A) You don't have a clue

B) You can't afford to have the work done

C) You really didn't want peoples opinions, you just wanted someone to agree with your clueless guess, and you didn't get it.

Apparently people ask a question they really didn't want an answer for. Welcome to the internet.


Do these jeans make my butt look big? Nope you Great Big Giant Ass makes your butt look big. The jeans have nothing to do with that.

I have come to the conclusion that people just have to experience the process for themselves. The car hobby is a hobby that people really want to look knowledge able and think they understand it as some form of self confidence and some sort of common sense. But there are so many different facets of cars and construction that there really are no "proven" techniques to learn some where, you just have to really be smart enough to see how one issue will affect 10 others and make the best compromise. And be slick enough to pull it all together in a nice package in the end.

One 2 cent Butt connector and ruin a half million dollar pile of parts that is no fun to drive or have it even work. The details matter the most, and until some one realizes that, its all for not.

You have obviously misunderstood me somewhere along the way. I do know that the shop is reputable, but I don't think blindly trusting someone with ~$100k is smart in anyone's book. A little confirmation and checking goes a long way, particularly the first time doing business with someone, regardless of their reputation. Ever heard the quote,"Never trust nobody!"?

A) I absolutely have a clue.

B) I'm pretty sure I know what I can afford. I can afford to do whatever I want with the car, but I'm also smart enough (and have enough of a clue) to know that I don't want to be wasteful in spending a bunch of unnecessary money just because some guy on an internet forum told me I should.

C)I do want people's opinions, that's why I asked. I wanted to know if I was off base and have had confirmation from a few that his number was on the high end, and that mine may have been on the low end. You have not given me any of the answer I sought. You've done nothing but attempt to belittle me and pound your chest when you in reality don't have a ****ing clue who I am or what I'm about.

You obviously have also misunderstood me. I'm not wanting to reinvent the wheel here. Yes it will take wiring, and running brake lines, etc etc, but 90% of what I am asking for is fitting or bolting parts in or on. Yes there's some welding, but I'm not asking for a bunch of custom one-off pieces that a lot of guys get into. I'm wanting the same stuff done to this car that most shops have the capacity to do and have done multiple times per year.

SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! :thumbsup:

Buddy your getting awesome advice from some of the most well versed people on this site and telling them you think its different.

I get a call from a guy asking about what your asking all the time. I'm sure these other guys do. Your putting people down who are not telling you want you want to hear.

The project is a lot bigger then you even realize whether you choose to admit it or not. I hate these threads and for some reason I have tried to educate you. Almost half the calls we get for work are from guys just like you that went to another shop and now need another shop to fix what the other shop said they could do for X price.

Good luck, I hope you make all of us look wrong.

Rebelceb, no one here is trying to belittle you here. The reason that I spend my time here is because this site is full of educated, experienced, welcoming, fun-spirited folks, who freely offer advice when asked, and don't pick apart peoples rides when they have built them the way that they wanted. It truly is THE best performance car forum on the net.
There have been a couple of these "what's my $100k car really gonna cost me?" threads pop up, since I've been around and they don't ever get anywhere. You've gotten sound advice here, from some of the biggest names in the business.
You can always try what I did with my Chevelle. Truthfully, I don't have an extra $100k to blow on a car, so I did all my work myself, except spray the outside of the car, and an alignment. I also had an upholsterer stitch up my tunnel cover, but besides that it was all me. It took me over 4 years, which I know your not wanting to wait for, but that's what it took. I work alone, because I want to, not because I have to. I have under $40k in my car, and it's nice. It's a driver and that's what I set out to build. In fact, I'm going to pick my son up from school in a couple hours on it. I'm just trying to give you an option here, because shop labor is money. The type of build your wanting to do, which is pretty common here on LatG, will be lots of shop labor money. Nothing you can do about it, if you want it nicely done, unless you do it yourself.
If a 69 Camaro built the way your wanting yours built costed $60k EVERYBODY would own one.

3....2....1....

Out of sheer curiosity, how did you determine this number? What background do you have that allows you to make this estimate?

I'm not trying to bait you into an argument, I genuinely want to know why you think that it should take that amount of hours.

Go easy guys, he's just misunderstood...:lol:

Rebelceb, I've got some more unwanted opinions for you. Go back to the first page and reread what everyone has wrote....I did and didn't see anything offensive or belittling toward you from anyone. I found a lot of great information from guys that have been down this road before. Its a forum man, topics tend to get off track from the original question(s), information is given and generally it circles back on track...Calling people out about what they do in their free time isn't necessary, neither is making an assumption that a bunch of "friends" bow down to each other...that'll get you nowhere fast.

My last .02, PM or call around to more shops with your scope of work and see what they say, get a bit more educated on what you're trying to get done.

You will eventually find a shop that will agree with you and tell you what you wan t to hear. It's called the bait and switch. You will end up with a much larger bill or you will end up with a botched up car that will need redone. I've seen it over and over around here..

Set a budget and let the shops know what it is. Then they can tell you what you can afford. That's really the best way. You get a few perspectives on your budget and go with who you feel most comfortable with.

Everything takes way longer than you think and it doesn't fit right. That means more labor, more freight, more creep, and a bigger bill.

While my friends here have little grace, they are right to a degree. The truth will be determined by your cars current quality and your expectations. Nobody can give you an accurate number. It's an educated guess. There is only one way to find out, do the dance and build the car.

Thank You to all of the responses to this thread. Thus is all if the conversations that should be had before any project that should be started.

This is also the reason my car gas been apart as a bare Shell for 8 years. I recently bought a heat gun to scrape out body sealer. I know it should be done before blasting and I am not willing to pay for it.

I've been a longtime lurker here too, All I have to say is...Greg is a riot all fired up.....and Todd is getting soft in his old age. Who's with me?

I don't think Greg's fired up yet, he's just been passionate about his recommendation. Similar to his passion for sharing investing knowledge. I know I can't afford budget overruns on my pro-tour project, since they're a fact of life, I do the work myself whenever possible.

I know my bowl of popcorn is getting low, ran out of beer. Everyone hold on I got to get refills to continue watching this.

Refined, buddy...:D :D

OK so I'm ready to go

Here is maybe a perfect example on a smaller scale . I'm a fabricator. I built myself a rotisserie from plans drawn by redwingsteelworks. I happened to mention to my engine builder that I was surprised his shop didn't have one for the resto-mod they do . One thing leads to another and we're discussing me making another but for him. I went thru the cut list got my boss to quote me a price knowing that this is for him. I presented it to him and his questions were why is it more thrn what you said yours cost . The devil is in the details. Eg when I built mine I took the time also a Lil OCD about some stuff . I made sure that the seams of the tunes were all facing the same direction from piece to piece, all of the jam nuts are aligned and welded the same, all the holes were countersunk to break the edge, all the tunes were de-burred inside and out so there are no sharp edges anywhere , I chipped and ground off any and all splatter and, then everything was blasted ,primed and, painted . Now back to the engine guy ... he wanted his to look like mine but didn't know how much extra time all this would game. He's now getting a rotisserie bare steel , not blasted, not chipped and cleaned , but is getting a lot of the other details done .

Does any of this make sense , yes other shops can toss parts together but if you don't watch the details that's what can make the job go sideways real fast.

As for Greg Weld, never met the guy ....probably never will , has a nice house and shop and such, seems like he'd be cool to have a few beers with and tell stories about things we've never done with cars we will never own or women we've never met. IF I did meet him and he turns out to be a a**hole then fine.... But don't think for A second that I'm going to blow any smoke up his arse or any one else's. 20$ in your pocket Is worth the same in mine ... if I eat too man tacos and get the sh**s well I'm thinking you get the idea . We're all the same .

Attached are 2 pictures where you can see some of the details I mentioned from my rotisserie..... OK so I guess I have to resize the pictures I will try to do that and upload them later

Donny --- He knows that it's just "some welding" (his post #55 in this thread) -- and wiring and running brake lines - but mostly it's all bolt ons....

He's not clueless and has deep pockets. We know that, because he said so on the Internet. Just for good measure - the shop he respects is also clueless on what it takes to do the job. The reason he knows this is because someone he talked to said so! Despite the advice of people that are intimately familiar with the work saying it will cost more than the initial bid "guesstimate"... He will no doubt continue to search until he finds a shop willing to bid the job for what he thinks it should be. We all know the outcome already. Then maybe his ego will allow him to come back and get in line with all the other ass kissers on here.:G-Dub: :popcorn2:


In summation - He came here as a new poster - asked advice - got it - didn't like it - so then everyone on here is an idiot, and misunderstands him. He's really a super knowledgeable individual with a sh!t load of money and has decades of experience in the hot rodding world... any and all advice is duly noted, and immediately discarded as an attack on him personally. There's no need for further discussion in an attempt to understand the advice offered. No attempt to understand the pitfalls of the work he'd like to have done despite the zillions of examples in this very forum. His is different.

:popcorn2: well im back to the beer and popcorn ...for some reason my blackberry priv takes too good of pictures lol it has a 18 mp camera and im too dumb to resize them . if it really matter i could dig up the canon and see about resizing pictures on it but , its also a 18 mp camera .

So Greg about those beers .....think you could keep up with good old Canadian boy , we know how to drink .....

I'll match your beers one for one - with a Tonic..... I haven't had a drink in 31 years - 32 this May.

We all know that being "misunderstood" can be very disturbing! LOL

ok well maybe if i get me arse to your side of the border and coast .

Happy Birthday in May ????

i will chime in and say ,knowing what i know as a do it yourself guy and being in the custom fabrication world it always takes more time and money than originally thought due to the "custom" factor.even things that are standard in the real world change dramatically in the custom world.as mentioned by many,things and ideas change during a build over the course of 6 months to a year or more.i refer to it as scope creep.if you ever plan on actually finishing a project ,be it a car or a home project etc etc,its time and money that gets it done even if you do it yourself.when your spending 50k$ ,are you not gonna finish it if another 10k$ is needed to get it done?my thoughts on the OP's original question is he is looking at 75K$ for the parts and labor he described.i feel he should sell his current car and take that money and buy an already built car ,quicker and cheaper in my book.

I did a pretty similar project and ended up at 300 hours only after many things went wrong and took re-doing... which is to be expected I'm sure. You're looking to do more though, including more wiring, quadralink and mini-tubs so I'd think under 500 is possible if everything is done "functional" and not showcar as you describe, and as mine was done. Which by the way I still love, and the shop that did it seemed to like it too as it's a car to be driven, not just to a show! Hell, I put real plates on it not historic as I drive it to work lol.

Here's what I had done for 300 hours, all on a nice driver like yours so no bodywork.

- LSA/TKO install w/ all plumbing, radiators, etc. (from a 3 spd auto/sbc)
- New brake lines/gas lines, fuel tank, etc, master cylinder
- Subframe connectors (not DSE so less hours)
- New rearend, leafs, etc.
- Custom mount 4th gen rear brakes
- re-wiring behind dash.
- Install 5th gen center console
- and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff

I honestly think at least 50 hours were redoing stuff because vendors sent wrong crap, like a clutch spaced for a 6 spd, and headers that don't clear etc.

If you're still looking for shops call Matt at Sled Alley, great guys and they know first gens up and down. Worth shipping it up...

This is possibly the most childish series of words I have ever read on any internet forum, ever.

For those that have reached out and answered my questions via pm and phone, I can't thank you enough for taking the time and trying to help vs just not saying anything at all! You guys were right about some of the things said in this thread in more ways than one. Some positive, and obviously some negative.

That's not possible, because GregWeld says it isn't. He's right, and everyone else is wrong, including those that do these projects for a living everyday.

Hours
 

300 hours I guess is possible, but it ALL depends on the level of detail and the amount of custom work.

I have done most of my own work, and I can tell you for example I'll have about 40 hours just in making my centre console, and all in all I have at least 1500 ++ hours into my car. Now I have BAD OCD when it comes to my builds so I take painstaking care to get everything 100% perfect and this takes time.

If you want to throw a car together with some cool nice parts then I'm sure it can be done much faster.

Just my 2 cents ...

Cheers
Steve

I'm only going to post this last response -- because my original intent was an effort to help you understand - even though you're misunderstood.

"Bolts ons" - "some welding" - wiring - plumbing is NOT what will overrun the project... What we've been trying to point you to beware of - is that when you open the car up - many times cars that appear to be wonderfully built - you can find all manor of hidden issues with the body. So while the sub may be easy to bolt to the body -- it's another issue entirely when they pull back the carpets and find rot.

Please have the balls to come back here (you've made so many new friends) and let us know how it all works out for you.

and I understand all of that completely and totally agree with you. I did not ask for an estimation of the unknowns. They are exactly that, unknowns.

I asked for help on an estimation on labor hours to do the work I laid out, not the unknowns the shop may or may not run into. I'm smart enough to know that wouldn't be fair to ask, nor reasonable. I also don't deal in "what ifs". I am prepared for them, but that wasn't my question initially or anywhere in this thread since.

I will be happy to come back and let everyone know how it works out. If I was wrong and the car is a rust bucket, I will be happy to admit defeat. If it goes even semi-smoothly and the project gets done on time and in a reasonable labor hour range, I will be sure to let everyone know that as well.