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Steve1968LS2 06-26-2009 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLexusTech (Post 220278)
Thanks Steve. So if you were trying to Monday morniing QB how would you weigh tires (100 vs 200 vs 300 ) aginst HP say 600 agains 450?

What I mean is the top 10 numbers look really close. The top Dog had 150 or more HP then everyone else but ran on harder tires.
Thanks for the educated guess :thumbsup:
I thought Stielow had the fastest time of the day? If so then he had the most HP out there and it showed in how fast he was at the end of the straights. JA also had the best brakes, BY FAR, or any car out there. That let them drive much deeper into the corners. Gingerman is a momentum track and the combination of kill brakes and crazy acceleration gave Jackass a big edge. Killer car that I would love to have in my garage.

68protouring454 06-26-2009 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 (Post 220279)
Just an aside.. there's really no difference in the rubber of a PS2 and a KDW. I've been researching this for a story, interviews, drurometer testing, and they seem to be the same softness. From what I gather the 300 rating on a KDW is marketing deal. Still they are a lot harder than my 100 treadwear tires.

So, I will add one more conclusion to Steve's list. Suspension Tuning.. DSE is ran like a race team. When they enter the pits the cars are checked, adjusted and tweaked. They really know how to tune a suspension and it shows. You can have all the fancy parts in the world and they are useless if not set up the right way for how you're driving. Knowledge is power and DSE has a lot of it.

Same with Stielow, although to a less degree. But they ran the car at Gingerman before the event and figured out they needed new rear springs (so they changed them in a monsoon.. lol).

I personally learned that if I want the car fast in BOTH the roadcourse and the autocross then the car needs to be adjusted between the two events. I need to change rear bar rate and I need to adjust my shocks. Again, tuning is very important, to the point of being critical when you are talking seconds and tenths.
I did not change my set up at all from road course to autox other then a few psi, 2 to be exact. Not track bar adjustment, no shock adjustment, maybe that means my car would of been faster i am sure, but I ran a sub 31 time so it was good for not autoxing since last sept at rtth.

Steve Chryssos 06-26-2009 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XLexusTech (Post 220278)
Thanks Steve. So if you were trying to Monday morniing QB how would you weigh tires (100 vs 200 vs 300 ) aginst HP say 600 agains 450?

What I mean is the top 10 numbers look really close. The top Dog had 150 or more HP then everyone else but ran on harder tires.
Thanks for the educated guess :thumbsup:
You can't. That perfect scenario of big power PLUS R-Compound tires PLUS experience did not materialize at the 2009 Motor State Classic. Could Jake Parrot have won with 150 more HP? Could Ryan Matthews or Mark Stielow have run a 1.33 on R-Compounds? Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Furthermore, the posted numbers do not reflect mechanical maladies either. Could Kyle Tucker have won if his battery mount did not fail? Could David Pozzi have won if his brakes were not toasted? Kyle's best lap time was a 1.36, Pozzi's was a 1.39, so you can poo-poo the data, but the Shootout was a different deal. Drivers were really pushing their cars in a manner previously unseen in pro-touring. Both cars could have picked up big time. I think it's awesome that all of the participants respected the fact that the Shootout was the race. You don't win a race in warm up or qualifying. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

There are only three consistently recurring themes amongst the field:
1) Driver Experience
2) Driver Experience, and
3) Driver Experience

I, for one, am fresh out of excuses. My R888's are insanely awesome. My new Jake's Rod Shop Torque Arm is insanely awesome. Time to fix the driver.

68protouring454 06-26-2009 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 (Post 220280)
I thought Stielow had the fastest time of the day? If so then he had the most HP out there and it showed in how fast he was at the end of the straights. JA also had the best brakes, BY FAR, or any car out there. That let them drive much deeper into the corners. Gingerman is a momentum track and the combination of kill brakes and crazy acceleration gave Jackass a big edge. Killer car that I would love to have in my garage.
It is a momentum track, but big brakes and 200 tread wear tires does not mean he could stop any better, yes he may be able to stop better, but he woul dneed to be on top of his game to go real deep and be able to modulate the braking to get down to entry speed. I would say it was harder for him to slow then say me on r888s. I have enough trouble scrubbing speed without lock up. its in part due to the hydraboost and instant pressure but i have been able to get comfortable with it, well other then that once time going into turn 1 lol,

Steve1968LS2 06-26-2009 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68protouring454 (Post 220290)
I did not change my set up at all from road course to autox other then a few psi, 2 to be exact. Not track bar adjustment, no shock adjustment, maybe that means my car would of been faster i am sure, but I ran a sub 31 time so it was good for not autoxing since last sept at rtth.
Me neither.. but your car is already well tuned. since you have hundreds of laps on it. You were also running a killer alignment.

The adjustment would have made you faster on the autox.. heck, trying to knock off a second is HARD on a 30-second course. lol

By the way, your car looked great out there..

Stuart Adams 06-26-2009 08:45 AM
Sounds like a great event. Hopefully it will continue and even a few more events will pop up over the years.

Steve1968LS2 06-26-2009 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68protouring454 (Post 220292)
It is a momentum track, but big brakes and 200 tread wear tires does not mean he could stop any better, yes he may be able to stop better, but he woul dneed to be on top of his game to go real deep and be able to modulate the braking to get down to entry speed. I would say it was harder for him to slow then say me on r888s. I have enough trouble scrubbing speed without lock up. its in part due to the hydraboost and instant pressure but i have been able to get comfortable with it, well other then that once time going into turn 1 lol,
Yes, he could out brake any car on that track. I drove the Jackass and the brakes were amazing. and they work better the hotter they get.

I would say Stielow was "one his game".. he knows the track and he knows the car.

I wish you had Rackpak data since a comparison would be interesting to his. Without that it's just my opinion but I would be willing to bet he broke later and was faster going in than any of us. He was hitting 111 mph at the end of the two big straights.

Those carbon ceramic brakes are just plain bad ass..

Steve1968LS2 06-26-2009 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetfytr68 (Post 220291)
Time to fix the driver.
Same here.. right now my car is better than I am.. need to work on that. lol

Still, I'm happy with how I did. I didn't baby the car around the track, in fact I was really hard on it. And I turned in pretty good auto-x times.

Now that I think of it that was the first time I had ever driven Penny on a road course...

I really needed to follow someone good (Ryan, Jake, Mark) around the track to at least see the line once.. I think that would have really helped.

Steve Chryssos 06-26-2009 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 (Post 220280)
I thought Stielow had the fastest time of the day? If so then he had the most HP out there and it showed in how fast he was at the end of the straights. JA also had the best brakes, BY FAR, or any car out there. That let them drive much deeper into the corners. Gingerman is a momentum track and the combination of kill brakes and crazy acceleration gave Jackass a big edge. Killer car that I would love to have in my garage.
He did.

Uhh...Sorry to get snippy. As stewards of this hobby, you and I wouldn't want people to think that they need ZR1 brakes and big power to be fast, would we? Some folks might throw their hands up in defeat. Strap a newbie into Jackass and the lap times will, no doubt, suffer.

Build the best car that you can, get it done, and learn how to drive.

Experience makes up for a lot of mechanical deficiencies. Case in point: Matt Altamore. My new hero.

Steve1968LS2 06-26-2009 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetfytr68 (Post 220299)
He did.

Uhh...Sorry to get snippy. As stewards of this hobby, you and I wouldn't want people to think that they need ZR1 brakes and big power to be fast, would we? Some folks might throw their hands up in defeat. Strap a newbie into Jackass and the lap times will, no doubt, suffer.

Build the best car that you can, get it done, and learn how to drive.

Experience makes up for a lot of mechanical deficiencies. Case in point: Matt Altamore. My new hero.
No.. but if you want to be "the fastest" then exotic hardware paired with a good driver sure helps.

And you don't need to be the fastest to have fun. I would imagine that even the guys with the slower times had a blast.

Just go have fun and don't worry about trophies.


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