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an fitting how to?
who has the best how to on an fittings and lines? I would like to read some more on the assembly of them
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http://www.xrp.com/ |
A couple things about these fittings -- especially if you're doing braided hose.
#1 Get the aluminum "jaws" for your vise. They're designed to hold the fitting while you fight with the hose etc. #2 Get yourself a way to cut this hose... CLEANLY #3 Put the fitting in the jaws you bought for your vise - and insert the hose with pressure and a twisting motion. I stick the hose end in the jaws so that it's parallel with the ground so I can push and twist at the same time. Do this - with a cleanly cut hose end and it goes right in super easy. #4 Did I mention to get yourself a way to cut this hose - CLEANLY #5 LUBE the hose (inside not outside) with silicone spray or similar BEFORE you put the fitting on. The rubber hose will really grab your fitting and cause you to strip out the aluminum threads before you fully bottom out the threads. #6 Use some anti-seize on the threads of the fitting or you will gall the threads and strip them - especially if you fail on #5 #7 Did I mention to get yourself a way to cut this hose - CLEANLY #8 Use aluminum wrenches... I use the gear drive box ends when possible to build the hose... then aluminum wrenches to attach it. #9 When attaching the hose to whatever you're trying to plumb -- it is the SEAT that needs to fit well... not the tightness of the thread. The leaks will be because the conical seats didn't seat -- not because you haven't got the threads torqued to 900 pounds <laughing> ... When I'm installing these - I sneak up on the tightness by (after anti seizing the male thread just a dab 'll do ya) tighten - losen - tighten a bit more - losen - tighten to final. They DO not need to be tightened to 8 zillion foot pounds of torque! If you can't manage to find a clean way to cut this crap --- at least invest in some more plastic crap from Kool Tools.... that will help you get the hose installed in the first piece... when you have a ragged edge. Personally -- after having made about 10 zillion of these types of hoses -- I hate the stuff - but can make up a hose in about 10 seconds whether it's the PTFE type or rubber with SS braiding... but I have a special saw that is mounted and has a hose holder etc to make the cuts with -- and this gives me a super nice end to start with, making the rest of the process SOOOOOOOO much easier! XRP sells the blades and the saw holder etc for this but it's not worth buying if you're only going to do one car and a couple fuel lines. :cheers: |
With all this knowledge Greg how about you post up some pictures on the tools you use and a picture of how you do it. You did say it takes you no time at all :D
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Okay -- I will!
Right after I have breakfast! |
I'm no expert but the below is what I found useful when I did my hoses and stainless hardline.
For stainless hose: When I was about to do my AN fittings I found a number of threads about this brand of hose cutters. It worked really well for me making nice clean cuts: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900040/ http://static.summitracing.com/globa...-900040_cp.jpg For AN fitting assembly on hose I had good luck with Koul Tools. http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/581-468.jpg http://www.jegs.com/i/KOUL+tools/581/681/10002/-1 Made it a lot easier especially for the little hoses I had to make (couple -4 ones). I found the larger hoses easier to make but they make tools that go from -4 to -16. You can certainly do it without but if you have a lot of hose ends to assemble it makes for much faster assembly especially if you don't assemble AN fittings all the time like me. There is a couple good videos on Youtube of hose end assembly. This one from Earl's I found good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDSozy6MZto Another from V8TV http://www.streetfire.net/video/s71-...8tv_683206.htm Like Greg said don't forget to lube the hose and use anti-sieze on the threads of all fittings, helps a lot. For Hardline: If you are planning on doing stainless hardline I would look into Rigid's line of Tubing benders and flaring tools: Flaring Tool: http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/458R-Rat...l/EN/index.htm Benders: http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Lever-Benders You will also want a couple cutters. A normal sized one for cutting the hardline off the car and a compact one for cutting to fit on the car, or you can get away with one compact one but you definitely will find yourself wanting to cut a line on the car. You will also want to champher and polish all ends that you cut in the hardline especially if its stainless annealed (probably not needed for alum) since the stainless likes to split on the flairs. Hope this helps! |
Okay here we go.....
Get yourself some Aluminum jaws for your vise! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0015.jpg AND some way to cut cleanly..... MOST IMPORTANT!!!! Saw and holder from XRP.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0017.jpg Or giant cutters -- I hate these because they deform the hose but they do work... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0062.jpg Or the way MOST people do this - by taping the hose and using an air cut off saw.... USE THE THIN 1/6" blades! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0066.jpg Make a NICE CLEAN CUT!! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0021.jpg Insert the hose ferrel or whatever the heck it's called into your jaws of life... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0027.jpg Insert the hose with a push and TWIST..... until it seats just below the threads! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0031.jpg http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0033.jpg Re-install in the vise... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0035.jpg LUBE THE HOSE!! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0037.jpg Anti seize the fitting!! Don't forget this part -- aluminum GALLS real easy... and the fittings are EXPENSIVE! LOL http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0043.jpg PUSH DOWN WHILE GETTING THREAD STARTED! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0045.jpg Tighten it up.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0047.jpg DUUUUUDE!! <spicolli style> You're done!! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0049.jpg |
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I might add I had good luck taping the top of the hose right at the female fitting in this pic. That way if when you are screwing in the other side of fitting if the hose pushes out you can tell. Saves some time redoing hose ends that leak because they aren't seated all the way. |
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IF you're going to cut SS TUBING ----- you need to get SS tubing cutter. Ridgid makes one. CUTTING SS TUBING WITH A CUTTER WILL MAKE THE END WORK HARDEN.... and will most likely cause the end to split or crack. I re-anneal the ends with my handy dandy little (LOL) Burr King** (not BURGER KING) .... until they're "blued"..... otherwise I use my BODY SAW and a fine tooth blade and finish it up on the Burr King. On SS tubing use a cut off wheel in an air tool -- IF -- BIG IF -- You can cut straight and clean. ** Definition of a BURR KING --- <NOT BURGER KING>..... that flat thing in the background there with the rough gritty paper on it and it spins and whirrs round and round and makes your knuckles bleed.... :lateral: :cheers: :woot: http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/DSC_5601.jpg |
Good point I left that out, I had access to a Burr-King for awhile at school, really miss it. Wish they weren't so expensive $$$, love to have one in my garage.
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Awesome write up Greg and Big Thanks since this post will hopefully help alot of people out!!!!! Brandon
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Disclaimer: This post was written by a real customer. No one was paid, and no actors were used in the making of this post:unibrow: |
The Koul Tool is really only for people that don't have a nice way to cut this crappy hose (I personally am so 'over it' - this look is what I mean).... and you're right - it (Koul tool) does make it far easier if you can't get a nice cut on the end of your braided stuff. But the key is really just to have the vice jaws to hold the fitting --- and a nice clean cut... then you can save the cost of the extra "not really required" tool. I use the vice jaws for lots of other stuff... and the cutters etc can be used on other things as well... the Koul Tool is a one trick pony.
A BIG PS to the original poster.... IF you're using braided rubber hose for FUEL LINE ---- DON'T. If you have to go flexible -- use the teflon lined (ptfe) braided hose and then you'll only need one extra tool... the hand tool that installs the ferrel and spreads the braid out AFTER you install the sleeve. The PTFE hose will stand up to todays fuels and is also great for high pressure stuff like P/S etc. If you use rubber hose -- you're garage will forever stink like gasoline. Then you're wife gets pissy about your "stinky hot rod" -- and then she goes out and shops all day - thus reducing your tool account! Don't let this happen to you! PPSS: The PTFE stuff is an extra little nasty hose to install a fitting on! If you cut this crappola with a cutoff tool -- it melts the PTFE -- then you can't get the fitting to go down into the liner... it's super snug fit! Any 'defects' or cuts in the end of the PTFE and you're "hosed" (pun intended). This is where that handy dandy XRP saw blade comes into play - cause it's super sharp and doesn't get hot and melt the liner.... JUST FYI is all. |
For me the Koul tools really helped with the -4 and -6 hose ends. -8 and -10 I didn't really need them. For me it was worth the price of less swearing and saving my thumbs from being punctured more :lol:
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Ed --- My skin is why I hate this stuff! LOL
It's (the braid) like 80 grit sandpaper if you accidentally touch ANYTHING that has a finish on it with the stuff! And those occasional barbs are just THE nastiest stuff ever! |
Greg
Great write up! You just need to add one step: I pressure test all my lines before installing them. I cap both ends with one end having a schrader valve. I pressure test the hose to 125 psi with shop air and dump it into my shop sink under water. If no bubbles it's good. :thumbsup: This has saved me a huge amount of time. I also pressure test all my tanks with less pressure before installing them. It is much easier to fix the hoses and tanks before you fill them with oil or coolant. Stielow |
Thanks Mark!
I really was chuckling to myself while writing this - - thinking about the first time I made this stuff up.... and how my fingers hurt -- and the stripped fittings and the leaks and the.... Well you know.... this stuff is a total PITA if you're not "educated" about it! I like your pressure testing.... but I just go one better.... I just don't build hoses and tanks that leak! Hey -- thinking of that -- I have a really really nice bridge in Manhattan I'm not using... CHEAP! Interested? :lateral: :cheers: :woot: |
That's why I use the nylon hose. Easy to cut and lighter. :unibrow: Power steering hoses are my only braided.
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Williams Oil Filter Service in Tacoma has every fitting like that you'll ever need.... and the hose too. Or if I'm not down cruising Tacoma I stop at American Hose and Fitting in Kent. If you know what you want - they'll also make them up for you. I prefer to make my own. |
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Thanks Greg |
Lenie --
"Local" to me means I walk over to a drawer and open it and take out what I need to do the job at hand.... I hate waiting - or not having what I need. So when I order - I order "extra".... and put some away. I was a wholesaler when I worked... I'm into "inventory". They used to call me "case lot Greg". :D |
Now how do you make them shine like chrome Greg? Another write up you got lots of time on your hand. :lol: So much knowledge should be let loose so maybe we can use it.
I was thinking maybe we should try to get Greg to do a write up a day for us guys! What do you fellow members think? |
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I own a Baldor buffer.... Take your cad plated fitting -- walk over to the buffer -- turn it on -- add some buffing compound to the wheel (I use separate wheels and compounds for steel vs aluminum vs stainless)..... hold fitting to buffer and rotate and make it shine like polished stainless steel! BUY plain ol' steel A/C fittings -- buff 'em up and they look like you had 'em chromed. Buff before installation - it's easier - if you do this after - tape off the hose! You get a hose caught up in your buffer --- you will suffer. :D |
I like the idea of buffing the fittings but I like to take it one step further. I usually buy used fittings (poor man's budget), but sometimes I have to buy new and then I strip off the anodize. From there I sand them down to get rid of all factory defects (because they are far from perfect), usually stepping all the way down to 1000 grit paper, before I hit them on a buffer.
I think I have a thread on here with them. I'm gonna try to find it now I found my original thread, but my work computer won't let me paste the link. Damn firewalls! |
I strip the ALUMINUM fittings and buff them.... But not the cad plated steel versions used on PTFE or A/C hose. Those I just buff up.
To strip the aluminum fittings I dunk them in CRYSTAL DRANO....(sold at Lowes and Home Depot for about $3 a can) added to water in a smallish plastic bucket... I hang one at a time on a bent piece of welding rod... and then dip in clear water bucket to neutralize. Clean 'em off - dry 'em off and buff till you can see the food stuck between your teeth. WARNING: The crystal drano has a wicked gassing off - DO NOT GET YOUR FACE ANYWHERE NEAR THIS STUFF.... I put the smallish bucket OUTSIDE on concrete wall -- use a 3' piece of welding rod -- and keep my distance and use latex rubber gloves... When you get the mixture of Crystal drano and water "right" -- the fittings will actually BOIL... trust me -- these bad boys are stripped in SECONDS not minutes or hours or days.... This is a dunk - swish - check - another quicky dunk - and into the rinse bath. I use a clear plastic bucket so I can SEE the boiling action and see the anodizing coming off. Leave this in too long and you'll ruin the fitting. EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
WOW!!! Thanks for all your help I will look into the other line as I was going to use rubber. and yes great write up:thumbsup: :lateral:
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Whats the next write up Greg? :D Great idea there on stripping fittings and buffing by the way. Wanna do write up on brake lines stainless steel of course and flaring poor mans budget or maybe something on wiring or any other subjects you want for us?Thanks again for sharing some knowledge :cheers: ! Brandon
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Here's some good advice on being a "poor man" in this hobby..... Marry better next time. :unibrow: :woot: |
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Amen to that! :thumbsup: Great thread guys! Lots of great info...I started tackling my lines over the weekend and my thumbs hurt! This provided some good insight on how I should be doing it! |
hahaha Well she lets me least have a toy and then she bought a 67 C10 swb to so can't complain to much you know! Think how many people you helped out with this post Greg!!!! It is even linked over to Pro-Touring.com cause people asked and you had the anwser!!! It is people with your knowledge that help others out so much just to let you know and I wanna thank you for info you have shared with all of us. Brandon
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I believe most of you use 304 seamless ss tubing for fuel lines, has anyone use 316? Good/bad, let me know, thanks
Lenie |
304 - aircraft quality - ANNEALED - Seamless.....
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Okay -- Here's your pictorial on PTFE/TEFLON braided hose.
Cutting this hose is WAY more critical than the braided rubber... BECAUSE the teflon liner is a super tight fit and you must insert the fitting into it before you get to the threads AND you can't have it mangled - or cut - or melted in any way! MY WAY..... or suffer! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0098.jpg So don't use a cut off saw... that melts it. Don't use the giant wire cutters - that deforms it! You'll never get the fitting in after you've done this and by the time you do - the braid or something else will be a giant mess! Fugedaboudit... This is what the PTFE/TEFLON hose looks like -- very nice thin liner... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0075.jpg This is the tool you will need -- a few of them to do all the sizes... this tool helps you in TWO WAYS.... it opens up the braid from the liner -- I stick it in and wiggle it around a bit.... AND -- most important it also will then be used to insert the little brass ferrel barrel around the liner and down into the braid. Try this with your thumbs and you will just need to own a pharmacy... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0086.jpg Insert and wiggle to open the braid a bit.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0087.jpg So now you have this! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0088.jpg Now put the ferrel barrel thingy magingy on it and put that on the liner.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0090.jpg DO NOT FORGET TO PUT THE HOSE INTO THE FIRST PART OF YOUR FITTING.... BEFORE YOU SPREAD THE BRAID AND DO THE FERREL BARREL.... or whatever the heck it's called.... BADA BING BADA BOOM --- you got TWO of the THREE parts done! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0091.jpg AND --- you have to make sure that the liner is up inside the ferrel barrel where it belongs -- like way up in there! http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0092.jpg Now you're ready to install it in your vise -- and TRY to get the rest of the fitting down INSIDE the liner.... Lube the thing with your handy dandy silicone spray and go STRAIGHT into the liner. Get it off angle and do the liner mangle and you'll be cutting a new hose.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0095.jpg Now you're ready to get the threads going -- don't forget a dab of anti-seize.... http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0096.jpg Now you have a nice HIGH PRESSURE Power steering and or FUEL hose.... And if you get A/C hose liner you can use it for that too -- but that is A/C hose == it's BLUE inside --- and takes O ringed fittings. http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_0097.jpg |
Greg in your last post I want to ask what those lines would be used for? I am guessing power steering line? I have never got into the after market lines as of yet so I would like to learn all I can before I get to that step. Love all steps you include. Brandon
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Brandon --- PTFE or TEFLON hose is for FUEL.... or high pressure - such as power steering ---- and similar hose like this can be used for A/C.... the A/C hose to be "for A/C".... and is a different color liner...
If you're going to run any flexible fuel line -- use the PTFE/TEFLON stuff.... the braided rubber hose STINKS LIKE GASOLINE after a little while with the new fuels. Having said that -- there is NEW rubber hose with braid that WILL contain the fumes but you have to really shop for it and know what you're getting. Most of the stores I know of are loaded with inventory of the regular old crap -- and it will not contain the fumes. |
Wow Greg, you're turning this thread into one hell of a little "how-to" on this stuff:thumbsup:
Lat-G should just make a separate "how-to" section just for you, and you can put a bunch of detailed pics and directions on how to do different things:cheers: |
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I'm only doing it because it takes a lot of time! Amazing how long you can spend setting it up - taking the pics (I use my iphone) and then posting the dang things up to Photobucket and writing the story and getting the photo info in there right. Everyone else has a life or is working for a living. I'm just messing around every day. :thumbsup: :D That -- and I wish I had someone showing me "how to's" when I need to know. Just paying it back is all... or is it forward. WTF who cares? :lol: |
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Jody |
If you can understand what he's saying.... this video will show you how to do teflon hose with basic hand tools ---
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