Why are people throwing a minitub and tires and calling it a pro touring?
 

Is it me or people are throwing cars together and calling it a pro touring show car..I been looking for a quality 69 camaro since I sold mine a few months due to $$ issues. Luckly I bounced back and I have a few $ to spend. I cant believe whats out there though.

Heres a car listed on ebay and seller said it was in show condition..I looked over the pictures and video and it seems that this car looks thrown together. Paint looks great but take a look at the pic's and video's..tell me if you see what I see..
Just trying to find a quality car after selling my 69 pro-tour camaro a few months ago for unseen circumstance.
Luckly I was able to bounce back and have funds again minus my car :(
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT


Heres some video's

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3678/...gvgwfcopro.mp4

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6...jhkbpdiasq.mp4

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9...njraeuarvq.mp4

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1...ogaurgawba.mp4

While it might not be red devil or some of the other super nice cars on our forum,it is alot closer to pro-touring than some other stuff on here. Looks like a drag car conversion to me. It wouldn't take a ton of tweaks to make it "more" protouring though. just my .02

That's nothing, most put a set of 17's on an old car and call it "pro-touring."

I've noticed the same thing. I think it just shows that most people still don't understand what Pro Touring is.

Please list the definition of Pro-Touring so I know where to start building my car. That way when I show pictures someone wont laugh at me at say "Thats not Pro-Touring lol you havent spent $12454244 on upgrades and an LS engine".

Kthx.

But seriously, where is the line that seperates Pro-Touring from not. Looks like this car could use some seats and interior upgrades and it would "Pro Touring" but I dont know. Im new to the game.

I love the copper pipe fitting out of the fuel filter.

Conversely, there are lots of cars coming out that are more "pro" than "touring", but still using that nameplate. Tube chassis cars wrapped in carbon fiber running 4 digit power is anything but pro touring IMO.

Looks like a hose clamp too.. And if you look at the video Under the motor looks like it was hacked and box tubing welded instead of using the correct oil pan for clearance issues..

To me if the owner mentions pro touring it's good. There will always be levels of cars within any group. Good cars are hard to find in any classification.

Also what is one guys show car is another mans junk. It's all good.

Glad your wallet is in good shape.

:thumbsup: it is NO different that what happened to "PRO STREET" I was at the drags on saturday and a car in "PRO STREET" ran a 6.39 @ 225.
Really??
I know it is just a Class but that is as fast as some "PRO MODS"ran 4 years ago.
You will see it happen here too, the American Street Car Series will need to split up the cars as more "Race" cars show up, no disrespect to race cars I happen to Prefer them. But it makes it hard to keep the field level, most guys do not have the money, time or knoweledge to run a Racecar but the few who do will push it to and beyond the current limit and everyone will whine and the promoters will have to make different classes otherwise the lowbuck guy, who actually pays the events bills will stop showing up.

so where DO you draw the line ... at both ends? good question? I don't have a good answer.

Reminds me of the Pro Street days in the 80's. Those cars were built to emulate a Pro Stock car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 15x33 Mickey Thompson tires. Hell, Rick Dobbertin [after building 2 of the most elaborate and hi profile Pro Street cars in the world, built a front wheel drive Grand Am with a big set of Mickeys under the back [leaving it front wheel drive with no other changes], and made several magazine articles!

Our cars are built to emulate a road race car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 17-18" wheels. Lots of people just want that "look" and cannot afford/don't want to make further investment in their cars.

Having experienced [and participated in] both movements...the "pro touring" movement is much more sensible [so far]. Our current trend of car building offers much less compromise than the old Pro Street cars. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, bigger suspensions, bigger engines all improve the overall driving experience with [usually] no compromise.

I'm good with all of it. Thank goodness for individualism and the ability to express such!

Nothing says pro-touring like a set of weld on ladder bars!!! :rolleyes: Guy had a drag car, put some 18's on it and now it's pro-touring...

Pro Touring:
1. must have a name
2. doesn't rattle
3. no matching numbers
4. has to compete
5.

anyone....:)

I see the inevitability of this as well. How do you fight it? Well, maybe by redefining "success".

Being the contrarian that I am, I am now piddling with a 72 Chevelle that I will be making small, inexpensive changes to make it drive more like my new CTSV. Its a 350/350 A/C car...every GM dealer had anywhere from 15-50 on their lot at any one time in '72.
It runs like a top so I won't even open the hood. The handling, seats, and steering wheel suck the worst so a set of 5 series BMW seats from the swap meet, a set of our new stand alone shocks [retaining the oem springs and control arms], our taller RideTech spindles [to lower the car and improve the camber curve, better swaybars, Delrin bushings for the oem control arms, and a Momo steering wheel [because I love the way they feel] is the primary game plan. No plans to change the 15" rallye wheels [although I'll have to hunt for some decent tires soon] or the factory disc brakes. No, it will likely not keep up with my 66 Chevelle on the track, but at 70mph on the highway it will drive like a dream! Lets face it...most of us spend a whole lot more time there than on the track anyhow. I really think I can accomplish all this for well under $2,000, plus my installation time. We'll see...I'll document the time and the cost.

The simple answer would be to seperate by horsepower to weight ratio.

What a great plan Bret! And you're right on. Most of the time is spent doing 65 MPH or less...

There is no definition for protouring. Just build your car and forget it. :D

5. Cost almost as much as a house?

my 2 cents
 

anyone agree that there are levels of pro touring? i personally think even if youre running hotchkis tvs or something with the intention of better handling it has some percentage of pt in it. the more you compete though definitely the more pt street cred ya got;). even within the cars themselves that can be considered pt-ing, there's grey area; that big two tone 80's caddy built a decade ago? the guy doing the porsche with the vette drive? the bottom line is good lateral dynamics where once there was none, right?

probably more food for thought than actual answers, but for the record, big shiny wheels, even if mini tubbed, dont cut it, the term itself is definitely being thrown around a good bit in the name of sales. :rolleyes:

Anything modified from stock to run better is pro touring in my book:thumbsup:

couldn't agree more. this car is not what I imagine when I think of any thing that might resemble pro-touring. I find it some what irritating.

says the guy building a pt POSTER CAR...lololol
if you've gone aftermarket subframe, from that moment on, youre almost certainly in, period........

Believe it or not we are the diehard minority of this arguement. Its not about "getting it" anymore. It about "getting into it". Everyone has to start somewhere, and not everyone knows about Lateral-g or Pro-touring or there would be 10 times more people here. Pro-Touring has forever changed the face of hot rodding and that is good enough for me.

I seem to recall a thread that actually had a definition of what Pro Touring is. But...I couldn't find it. :rolleyes:

While I don't have or know the official definition, I would say there are a few basic elements that are required for a car to be considered a base line Pro Touring car. Items like disc brakes on all four corners, upgraded suspension for a better quality ride and upgraded steering.

It's just my humble opinion, but these are some good examples of PT cars (mild and wild). The last being the "poster child" if you will.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...SIIMG_2312.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...cture036-1.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...6c283cac_o.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s..._5382749_n.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ffav8/orig.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...amsbc-449L.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s.../Scotts69a.jpg

Very good point Mike. I learned of Lateral G in 2008 but I wanted to make vast improvementss to most areas of the car since I got it in '89 at 17. I did a lot of research in the early nineties when DSE was born out of a garage, PST had poly bushing kits on the back of every magazine and Dick Guldstrand answered his own phone when I called there about his templates.

Fast forward to 2012 and I am making slow progress but life takes priority. Some of my parts are out of another guys budget and others would be deemed inadequate.

I won't call my car PRO touring because I am not paying anyone and I'm pretty sure nobody is funding my efforts... although I have had a few nice Christmas surprises.

My car will be what I want it to be, Someday... when time, money and know-how align long enough for me.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...ouring-defined


http://www.camaros.net/forums/archiv.../t-101503.html

http://supercarx.net/articles/Pro-to...perCar%20X.htm

Ahh, the "what is pro-touring" debate again.

This reminds me, in addition to Mary Pozzi's "stick you b***" bumper sticker decals, I think we should all have some that say "WWMSD?" Or, "what would Mark Stielow do?" :lol:

Matt

Oh brother not again.....

WWMSD That's awesome. :lol:

LOL yup

With the links intocars posted I think you're safe. :lol:

I thought Pro Touring meant lowered first gen Camaro, did something change?:rofl:

:cheers:

I won't get into the what's pro-touring that's for sure! But I bet you can't build that car for what he wants including labor!! :thumbsup:

If we start that arguement you might as well lock this thread now and safe us all from talking about what we had for breakfast.

Nope, you nailed it! :lol:

According to eBay.. any Camaro with torque thrust wheels is a PT car. I had to join these sites to learn the diff

:yes:

To quote a very wise man: "I don't give a f...":lol:

Maybe I don't need to point this out but I'm gonna anyway. Bret from Ridetech is in on this conversation. He is not here marketing or defending against somebodies gripe. He is here as part of this community and I don't think it is because he is trying to make a buck. I think it is because he is a car guy. There are a ton of guys that are not here for one reason or another. I don't hold that against them but I do appreciate it when commercial vendors are here to also just be car guys.:cheers:

yeah ive never been fond of the definition debate...
but there are a couple truths i stick too:

i believe there is no set of "rules" to building a pro-touring car BUT the equivalent to the all american blonde hair blue eyed quarterback stud would be a primary color 69 CAMARO with all dse suspension, leather int,sound system,AC,big brakes, forged wheels and cup holders!:D

2nd-a late model car can NOT be pro-touring! if you modify you late model corvette,camaro, or mustang it just becomes a modified modern sports car.:)

and the most important !
if dave gordon wants, owns or loves it... its a race car and not Pro-touring :lol: :lol: