Building my big ten bolt or why not
 

I'm fairly certain that the 10 bolt in my car will need to be taken apart and redone. Last time I drove the car it was making bad noises. My thoughts have always been to simply keep the rear because it's strong, has plenty of aftermarket support, robs less power, and I won't ever "need" a 9in or 12 bolt power wise. My question is who can build my ten bolt up near me? Near being relative as I'm more than willing to go into OKC, Denver, ABQ, Dallas etc if I have to. Really, I think all I'll need to do is put new axle tubes on the housing, have them aligned, and fully welded. I already have 3.42 gears. Maybe I'll spring for a new posi unit or look to upgrade the stocker if possible.

The other question is why shouldn't I build it or why should I go with a 12bolt or 9in? Car is a street car and will remain that way for a long time to come. I'm looking at a TA suspension most like from Speed Tech or JRS and I'm fairly certain they can both be made to fit the big 10 bolt. Is there anything else I should consider when making this decision?

Thanks!

I'm about to do a 9" swap in my 2nd gen as well. Power wise I'm not afraid of the ring gears holding up. My fear comes from the C-clips and the axle potentially falling out. I have had to pick up a friend who lost an axle driving down the highway without anything close to crazy power. I could only imagine what may happen if it's on a road course or autocross.

I'd install some aftermarket axles, The ten factory axles look good. I've had a couple of issues with Superior axles.

Well, I put Strange axles in it while I was getting everything else in the car a few years ago. I'm going to be upset if they are damaged since they have only a few miles on them. I can't remember if the axles were anything special though. Is there a certain material or treatment I should look at when considering new axles?

Just how common is the c-clip falling out or breaking? Is it over hyped? There are so many axles with that design out there and I personally don't know anyone that has had issues.

Thanks guys.

They make a kit to eliminate the C-clips. I think it's pretty common to do to any of the GM rearends if you have hp at all. How big a deal? Lots of stories both ways, guy raced for years and never broke one, guy was on his way to church in a low mileage stocker and shebango! I do know this, the carnage is usually ugly.

My car needs a rearend too but unless I was doing some kind of numbers matching thing (I'm not), I would not invest all the upgrades into a 10bolt. It sounds like you've already spent good money on yours so it makes since to finish it out.



Jeff-

The Buick Grand Nationals have 8.5" 10 bolt rear ends and they can take the power! Those V6's at 30 lb boost put our a TON of torque and the rears survive! You could convert it to a full floater if concerned that c-clip will break. I would not spend the $'s until I break something!
Conrad

Before taking it apart, try to diagnose the noise first. It might just be an axle bearing.

Until I break something I'm using a 12 bolt with C-Clips. I have C6 Z06 rear disc brakes though so a broken C-Clip isn't the end of the world as the brakes will PROBABLY hold the axle in until I can get stopped. Stuff might happen but my quarter panel should probably be OK I'm thinking. So, if you're running rear discs it's something to add to the equation.

The issue is not about the c-clip falling out or breaking. The issue is ... if the axle breaks ... the results are disastrous. The axle, tire & wheel combo come out of the car ... under load & at speed! :confused59:

A c-clip eliminator converts your axle bearing to a press on bearing of better quality ... AND ... utilizes a bearing housing end that bolts onto the housing end/backing plate end. Not only is it stronger ... but if for any reason you break an axle ... the axle stays in the rear end.

Not so with factory c-clips ... if it breaks ... the axle, wheel & tire come OUT !

A full set up costs $130-180 ... so it is a VERY SMALL price to pay for a LOT of safety for you & the people around you ... and protection for your car.

Go to page 16 of Strange's catalog:
http://www.strangeengineering.net/catalog/index.html

Erik,
If you don't mind sharing about your car ... how much HP? How do you drive the car? How much does it weigh? How big are the tires?

Ron, thanks for posting this link. Most kits for GM vehicles require the user to change axles also, which can get expensive. I haven't seen these kits before. Very affordable.

No worries. Best wishes.

Good info Ron. :thumbsup:

I installed Moser axles and the c-clip eliminator kit a long time ago. As I see it the downside (handicap) is the limited options for rear disc brakes.

Budget wise I'll probably end up installing big Ford flanges on my 12 bolt for braking performance more than increased strength.

Unless I can find a real good deal on a 9" as the lower pinion placement would also improve my drivetrain angles.

If your going to run the c-clip eliminators on the street, you may want to check this out

Strange part # A1033

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-...t-application-

To rebuild a 10 bolt or not
 

I would rebuild yours .The reason why GM quit building the 12 bolt is because it is just as strong. My car is a 1979 Z-28 RS Camaro. It has a supercharged small block Chevy with a Super T-10 4 speed. The speedometer has turned over 6 times before I rebuilt the 10 bolt.I upgraded to the Moroso "Brute Strength" carrier for a 10 bolt. It has heavier springs and clutches than stock. Stock GM 3:42 ring and pinion.And Mosier 31 Spline axels. But I tend to over build stuff when upgrade the car .Because of the amount of power the engine is capable of making . So if the is going to be fairly stock. I would rebuild it stock but add a positraction carrier to it. And if want to have a lot healthier engine down the road. I do the upgrades like I did. I like to do things only once. Especially big ticket items like differentials. I all depends on you and your pocket book. Good Luck to you.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll know soon enough if the rear end is making noise and what it is. I'm close to getting it on the road legally.

One thing I have noticed is the rear is weeping gear oil from where the tubes and new axle tube ends where welded on. I had this done by a chassis shop that builds 10.5 Outlaw cars. Is this normal or did they not do the best welding job? Can it be rewelded or do I just need to start over with a different housing?

As for the C-clip eliminators, Marty mentioned something in his build thread about being told the kits aren't for a car that corners. Anyone have any insight into that claim?

I think I'm good for brakes in the rear. I've got C5 rears now and I'd go with a Kore3 kit if the need arises. Marty already figured out how to make that work with the C-clip eliminator kit.

After checking this link out, I'm wondering if that's what Marty was being told about in his thread? I wonder if he has tapered bearings. Hmm, I'll PM him.

Thanks for posting this.

The same part # is on page 16 of the Strange catalog I linked to, but that page shows ALL of the kits. This is THE correct kit for the application we're discussing. $180

This is the version for street, cornering, auto-x, etc. It uses a tapered roller bearing, which is stronger in every direction, compared to the stock gm axle bearing.

When people have said the c-clip eliminator kits are not for street or cornering, they are, of course, referring to the drag race versions that use roller ball bearings. Or they don't know there are versions available with tapered roller Timken style bearings ... which again ... are WAY better for side loads from cornering than the stock GM axle bearing.

Hope this help clarifies things. :confused59:

It does. Thanks Ron. The only thing I need to figure out if if my Moser axles will work with the Strange kit since the Strange kit says it works with specific Strange axles. Moser doesn't say if their C-clip kit is drag only or not. I may need to contact them to find out what type bearings it has.

A drag race magazine did an article, I think the title was "Ten Second Ten Bolt" and the subject of the article was that a 10 bolt with c-clip eliminators, forged axles, HD Diff cover, quality gears and a good posi-traction / limited slip / spool unit would take care of most cars, even cars that car were going to race exclusively.

After figuring out all the cost elements to upgrade my 10 bolt versus a 12 bolt or 9-inch, I searched for a 12 bolt or 9 inch or dana 60 that I didn't need to do much swapping of parts. I found and used 9-inch because I had the time to be discriminating, and the rear end had most of what I wanted already installed and in good shape (gears, locker and the right width for the car without having to pay a machine shop a bundle to get what I needed). I probably would have kept my 10 bolt, except I was looking at purchase of a new set of gears for the desired ratio, C-clip eliminators, forged axles and rebuilding the Eaton unit, and then I would need to cut off the leaf spring perches, and weld on the 4-link brackets too.

In the end I spent less on the used 9-inch than I would have spent modifying / upgrading my existing 10 bolt. Not a whole lot, but a few hundred bucks. The discriminating factor was the cost of a new set of gears and the labor for the installation of the c-clip eliminators, and matching forged axles. Again, I had time to look for what I wanted in a used unit, and I had the used 3rd member checked out so that I didn't need to buy a whole bunch of new parts and then pay the labor to install them. I was lucky, time was on my side, and I was able to get what I needed and save a few bucks.

If you are lucky your existing 3rd member has most of what you need already installed. If not, look in the used market and maybe you can find a 9-inch, 12 bolt or dana 60 with everything you need and you only need to tear it down have it checked out and a few things repalced and you are good to go with a swap that will accommodate any changes to you engine package in the future.

Don't mind sharing at all, car is still being built, I'm setting the record for longest build time. It's a 69 Camaro, mild LS2 at best so most ever probably 500hp, 18" 275 tires, possible mini-tub someday. I would do the C-Clip eliminators in a heartbeat but the last I checked it couldn't be done with the C6 Z06 brakes and Kore3 adapters I'm using. I'm assuming though that those brakes are beefy enough that unless under a real hard corner they should keep the wheel somewhat in place until I can get stopped. If there's a better option out there now I would love to hear about it.

Thanks. I'd definitely go used with the 9in if I went that route. I'm cheap like that and really don't see a problem with good used parts. The biggest concern I have right now is if there's a problem with my ten bolt that's going to require a lot of expense. If I can determine that it's good, then I only have a little bit more to do to make it complete.

Check with Marty's build, 2nd chance camaro. He modified his Kore3 set up to work with the eliminators. I'm not sure what calipers he went with in the rear though.

My car is going to be similar to your's as far as rear tire and power levels. I'll eventually go wider but it won't be any time soon. Heck, it's not going to be any time soon that I even get the engine built. So for now, 300 rwhp for me!

I just noticed I have this thread in the wrong forum :goofy:

LOL, me too......fixed. :thumbsup:

Thanks, Scott :trophy-1302:

I finally had the front end aligned and have been driving the car a bit. The rear end isn't making any bad noises. I do have some gear whine but I'm not worried about that at this point. It's not bad.

When I had the front end aligned I asked them to give me the rear end specs also. I have +0.6 degrees toe on the left(driver's) and -0.2 degrees toe on the right. I have not followed the car to verify this but it feels like the back end is stepping out to the right when I'm driving straight. I put the rear end back in the car squared to within 1/16th inch. I have not verified that it hasn't moved somehow yet either. I guess I'm just wondering if with the toe settings I have if that's enough to cause the back end to step out.

Drove behind my car over the weekend and didn't notice it stepping out any. The friend I had drive the car said it felt fine to him. So I'm good for the most part it seems. Will this level of toe cause premature wear on the tires though?