Metal saws - pro's - con's - compromises
 

My dilemma began with "unsatisfactory" accuracy and setup time for 45* miter cuts with my little Jet horizontal 1/2" x 64.5" blade bandsaw.

Cuts for auto related projects are tolerable but for my frame and other projects the time spent hand fitting joints is a PITA.

The current saw and space restrictions:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R...RTX3rQT-XL.jpg

Couple mitering projects:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6...6vjCkPx-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5...5fnXxVr-XL.jpg

I started thinking a 110V Cold Saw in the 11" range that cuts 45* both Left and Right would be ideal for speed and accuracy. Not inexpensive upfront and a proper selection of blades adds to the cost.

This is the cold saw: http://metal.baileighindustrial.com/...ldsaw-cs-275eu

Are the cold saws that accurate?

Do they produce really clean burr free cuts?

Are they low or high maintenance?

Do they work well on smaller tubing and shapes?

I'm close to pulling the trigger and I'm now assessing my wants vs overall needs. Is there a more universal saw better suited to my hobbyist needs?

Would a mitering bandsaw with a 3/4" blade that also goes vertical (a feature I use a lot) be a better purchase in the long run?

This is the bandsaw: http://metal.baileighindustrial.com/...d-saw-bs-712ms

Will the 3/4" vs. 1/2" blade improve the cutting accuracy?

The upgraded bandsaw would only take a little more existing space vs. adding the cold saw to the mix which requires another 3' x 3'.

Do I want the cold saw.........hell yes! Because I think they're a cool tool and I've always appreciated the quality good tools deliver.

I ask those with experience.........will I be disappointed?

Are the cold saws as frequent a "go-to" tool in the shop as a good bandsaw?

:headscratch:

Cold saws are great, and I wish I had one, but I have another option. It is a Makita metal cutting chop saw that uses Metal carbide blades (not the fiber type. It works well. The cuts are accurate as you set them up to be and no sparks.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LC1230-.../dp/B00004YOLV

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-A-90875..._bxgy_hi_img_z

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup: I just have a tinkering garage/shop with limited space and that might fit my limited volume/applications well. My concern with the cold saws is snagging smaller thin wall square and round tubing.

After debating my real world usage vs. wants today I decided to upgrade my little Jet dry cut band saw to the Baileigh BS-712MS. Hopefully I'll see some improvement in accuracy, being a swivel head it will be much faster to setup for angles, and it also lock vertical which is a feature I use a fair amount. Hopefully the .75" vs. .50" blade improves the accuracy a little.

http://metal.baileighindustrial.com/...aw-bs712ms.jpg

I know upgrading the band saw will be an improvement and I use it a fair amount. Time will tell. :sieg:

PERFECT!!!


Now I feel like Charley! I got you started on the saw buying band wagon.... HAHAHAHAHAHA




You will be happy with that saw!

Thanks - You are like Charlie and ............you suck. :thumbsup:

This should be a good fit and it leaves the door open for a circular in the future.

I hope it meets the needs as the freight was $80 less than I stole that Jet saw for. :lol:

Big thank you to Shane at Baileigh and the Lat-g discount. I very much appreciated his service. :thumbsup:

Were you having problems with the accuracy or repeatability of the angle itself or was it not making a square cut like the blade was tilting or walking?

I would think that you could remedy the first by using a combination square instead of relying on the markings on the saw or even drill your own holes and set up pins at the angles you use most often. I've never found the markings to be very precise. If the problem is tilting of the cut or walking of the blade a wider blade will help but it all boils down to sharpness, pressure (feed) and pitch. Feed it too fast and pretty much any blade will "walk" and make a cut that isn't square. A dull blade has the same effect. Too coarse of a pitch on a thin walled material will give you similar problems and try to grab.

You should get yourself a few different blades to use for different materials and workpiece shapes. A very fine pitch should be used with the thin walled stuff to keep from having it grab or make a generally bad cut. If you can, always try to have a minumum of 2 or 3 teeth in cut at all times. The fine pitch blades will also work better on harder materials and will leave less of a burr on all materials at the expense of cutting speed.

I have a Mikita saw like this but it has the fiber blades and they throw enough sparks to start a fire in the next state... I'll have to get one of those dry metal blades if I ever use it again. And I haven't used it except to rough cut heavy angle iron that I didn't care about accuracy. About two years ago I picked up a Wilton 3130 brand new in the box on Craigslist for $350. I thought I would use it every now and then for intercooler and exhaust projects but it's never gathered dust... I use it pretty much every day for cutting something. Highly recommended purchase! It is probably a step above your Jet Seig but not as nice as the Baleigh you are looking at!!

http://www.brweldingsupplies.com/wil...utting-1-2-hp/

That is very, very, very nice Seig!

Thanks SS! I hope so!

I use the little Jet so much it made sense to upgrade the go-to tool verses adding a specialty saw at my level. If the miters aren't as tight as need the next move may be a 12" to 20" disc grinder as my little 1x42 belt / 8" disc Delta lacks surface area, table size, and has some disc flex.......but it's also a tool that gets used frequently.

This 20" would be a big upgrade.

http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/ProductIm.../BLH-14015.jpg

Seig, did your BS-712MS saw arrive? Looking forward to seeing your impressions on it. I am looking at this one as well. Not a whole lot of reviews to find on this machine.

Ron - I'm hoping it arrives next week. I'll review once I have it tuned properly and get familiar with it. The stock blade is a 6/10 (I think) and also purchased an 8/12 which I'm guessing for most of my work will be the go to blade.

Not sure if I'll need to get a blade tension gauge or not.....at $265+ I'm hoping not! :lol:

I would not be concerned with having a blade tension gauge. We used to have a Wells 10 inch bandsaw back in NY and the most important thing by far was simply having good bi-metal blades...and running the coolant/cutting lubricant...You can get killer pricing from McMaster Carr believe it or not on blades, they list them simply as "bi-metal blades" but when they show up they are Starrett brand blades. At my work we have a large Dake saw and that is where our guys buy the blades.

Thank you :thumbsup:

Well ---- Siegiemundo.... I know for sure you had a brand new saw in your pickup earlier today.... so spill the beans boy! And post up some pics!

Im too tired! Solo'd it and it's almost ready to fire up!

Here's a photology of the majority of my day............

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M...-Mm4fRDL-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R...-R2cvjF6-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x...-xq6zKgz-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-g...-gH83fdh-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b...-bJK6KQx-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x...-xScqV43-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d...-dsKmXnN-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-c...-cwbQCP9-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-B...-BxBBKMP-L.jpg

The pallet was 540 lbs...........Fulcrums, levers, and blocks are wonderful tools.

Thanks to Baileigh for great service and prompt delivery via FedEx Ground and the Lat-g deal. :thumbsup:

Forget pretty! See if it'll cut that diesel rod and piston at an angle!

The test cut that came with the saw had +.004-5 variance top to bottom.

The Baileigh manual is a nice touch compared to the stock manual.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Z...ZF26bCH-XL.jpg

Today will be spent rearranging and further densifying the already cramped work space. :headscratch:

nice work moving that. My dad use to tell me either use you ingenuity or get more friends. Are you part Egyptian by any chance? :hapdance:


damn with those hats.

Thanks - Back surgeries force you to be creative! I was telling my neighbor this morning I learned appreciation for the Egyptians yesterday. LOL

It was actually a fun challenge and all those 2x4 remnants are cheap. :D

Just whistle and the hat is yours. :thumbsup: :D

Is it a wet saw??



PS -- Build a new shop with a smaller house -- houses are overrated.

Yes it's a wet saw.

My garage plan was ruined by a public utility access on the east side of my property. Original plan was to have a 3-car drive-thru garage with the back drive-thru portion (15x25) being shop and layout space. That would have increased the footage to just under 1200 s.f.

Wow very nice! I "need" one of those :).

Congrats on the unload. That looked like fun.

Thanks.......I have further appreciation for what the Egyptians accomplished.

One thing leads to another........with the larger saw and already having a space issue every item sitting on the floor was moved and reconfigured today. I also reworked the left side which allowed me to move the car over gaining a valuable 12" in the work area. It feels spaciously cozy now. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d...dC2bj4C-XL.jpg

Even if you had 100,000 square feet... the minute something "new" comes in -- everything gets re-configured. Can't tell you how many times I've done that shuffle. It can actually be fun - and forces a guy to think what's really needed or how to store stuff - or to build something to make the shop more efficient.

Isn't that the truth. The business had 15,000 s.f. and I fought maximizing lack of space issues every week.

Yesterday was definitely 8 hours of high quality shop time which I thoroughly enjoy!

I might just compound it today. Dinking around the shop with the dogs and listening/watching the Phoenix Open golf tourney sounds like a plan! :D

Very nice, Scott. I unloaded my JET 7x12 yesterday (as you saw on FB). Mine is more basic (belt not direct gear drive) and is not a swivel type. I am really looking forward to putting it to use. Did a few test cuts and Indeed the coolant makes cutting so much nicer. I ordered up some good bimetal blades and coolant concentrate also.

And oh yes, these things are heavy.

Rob that saw is all you need unless you're doing a lot of miters which is the reason I went to the swivel head. Mine cuts like a house of fire compared to my small dry saw. I installed the 8-12 blade tonight and will probably order a 10-14 and straight 14 as my go-to blades. Be careful when changing blades and setting the tracking, the tensioning/tracking system is goofy and sensitive. At least thats my initial impression. Tightening the tensioning bolts has a major impact on tracking. I learned the hard way and cut through a section the backside blade guard near the top wheel. Only took a couple seconds with the stock 6-10 blade. :underchair:

So I put the saw in neutral and manually spun the wheel to set tracking. :sieg:

FWIW - I'm also going to pick up some rem pieces of solid round stock to have on hand for conditioning new blades. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the tips, Scott, I'll watch out for that. Conditioning the new blades is a good idea, I have a few chunks of 3" solid round plain steel I can make some "baloney slices" from. One of the reasons I bought the saw is also for being able to cut down round stock to put it in the lathe. There is a really great metal scrap yard down in San Jose that I get to visit once in a while, It is loaded with cut (much of it new) remnant materials and now, having this saw around opens up a lot more possibilities.

Are these saws able to stand vertically and use as a sort of table band saw? I can see how the saw can stand vertical but I have no idea where a table would come from. I want this function to make brackets so Im looking for more fuction without having multiple tools. If possible can someone take a picture please.

My Baileigh saw will lock vertical and comes with a small table that attached to guide. Throat clearance is limited but on my previous Jet dry cut saw it was a frequently used option.

Browse Baileigh and Jet's websites for details. The saws are made by the same manufacturer they just have varying features between the marketed brand names. :thumbsup:

They come with a small table that bolts on. I don't plan to use mine much in the vertical position. Mainly, this is because these saws run a 3/4" wide blade when performing their main intended task of horizontal cutting...With vertical band sawing, you are not going to be able to navigate any kind of close radius curved cuts with a 3/4" blade... not sure if it is possible to run, say, a 3/8" wide blade on these saws without modifications. I plan to buy a dedicated vertical saw at some point, for that I would want to find an old DoAll or Dake.

Managed to get a little time tonight to tune on square and see how the Baileigh BS-712MS cuts.

This was using a 8-12 blade and once the piece was debured the thickness measured out between .044" -.047" and I think I can squeeze another .001" out of it. :unibrow:

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Baileigh-BS-...4_210303-L.jpg

now your just showing off....my bessy can make real nice wedges at that thickness.

What he said!



I'd bet my Baileigh Cold Cut saw can whack that piece off faster and cleaner! LOL


Glad you got that saw Sieg... it will serve you well til you're wearing diapers.

Hey! I had no idea what to expect for accuracy. :action-smiley-027:

Thanks awhole.

The cost of blades was one of the cold saw deal killers for me. 4 band saw blades = one cold saw blade. And being as thrifty as I am the kerf is twice the band saw..........that wastes a lot of material. :sieg:

.........hopefully it lasts 3-4 years. :(

Cold saw is one way to get your arm strength up as well.

With the horiz band saw you can set it up to cut and go do something else productive...

For me, that usually means having a beer and watching it cut, lol

Great idea!

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Baileigh-BS-..._155318-XL.jpg

Oh wait! :sieg:

That'll "cut down" on your drinking....


Wait.... did I really just say that?



LOL

Sorry, I had to.