Am I being realistic?
 

Little background: in high school (1996) my dad bought a super nice 1955 Chevy 210. 350sbc, 4 speed, 10 bolt rear end and riding on weld drag lites.

Fast forward to today - i am the proud owner of exact same car. The 350 had a different cam and heads etc installed but its in need of a rebuild and honestly - this thing is slow!


So what I am after - a multipurpose street/strip/(possible) track car. I work 10 minutes from blackhawk farms. I live 15-20 minutes from byron dragway.

I take nice country roads to work.

Is it possible to build a mid 9 second pro touring car that could also turn some laps on a road course or is this just unrealistic?


The other choice
565 bbc with 6 speed and spray
6.0L lsx with either single 80mm or twins and 6 speed.

it has to be a 6 speed!

Discuss or feel free to flame away. (ill add a pic later when im not at work)


budget: not sure

I'll say it could be done.....provided your budget is in the 6 figure range.

Pretty much just a matter of $$. Though if you're going to drop that much money into it, why not build two cars? :lol:

Anything is possible :gitrdun:

Definitely possible. But as others have said $$$

I have a 68 Camaro, more pro-street-touring.

Did 10.3 @ 130mph on first pass. Haven't dialled it in yet, and had suspension too hard. Should go into the 9's by getting it to hook up better.

Runs all the PT goodies, AME subframe, massive brakes etc.

But it's carrying extra weight. Iron 632 BBC (crate, normally aspirated). Full custom metal interior which will have added eight.

It has a 4 link, and 390 drag radials on the rear right now and a TH400

But no reason I can't run some better road course tyres instead of the large sidewall drag radials for road course racing. Only downside is the auto

And I drive this thing 100 mile round trip in peak hour traffic to the office on occasions as well.

I wouldn't say mine meets your desired goals, but it may go close. very doable.

But don't ask me how much is sunk into it. It might scare you

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...aro/mashed.jpg

Like Ron said- stay light weight, stupid rigid, and I'd do a huge LSX with turbos so you can dial in the boost a ways down the track like the small tire guys do. You need $200k+

I believe this was the goal of Prodigy Customs' Project "Unfair"..... that turned out well. :lol:

Seriously, this would be very cool to do and see. I like the NA alum BBC route myself. :)

Build a car to do one thing well... end of my story.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...27272709_n.jpg

This is what I am starting with.

Is the 200k a number you guys are throwing out based on writing a check and letting someone do it?

It seems high to me for just "parts"

Id like to do as much of the build as I can in my garage. I have talked with Roadster Shop about a frame and minitub and the cost was actually way better than i thought.

I plan on touching up the paint where there are chips but other than that id like to keep it how it is for now.
Interior is the same way (which may defeat the whole track thing with a bench seat).

decisions decisions

this is what may end up happening. I was trying to justify building a jack of all trades type of car


which jack of everything master of none

Exactly, it's an expensive proposition full of compromises. If you have the funds to hire Ron, then it's considerable. Otherwise, I'd find a purpose and build it.

I think the aftermarket full frame, cage and turbo motor will get the job done. Bolt in a safe race seat for the drags or road course and put the bench in to cruise.

Take a look at this thread. Iron block 6.0 with twin turbos making about 1000 hp. Just did drag week

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=47412

Why not just build a car that hauls ass and is fun to drive. Running 9 seconds in the quarter is a pretty tall order. To runs nines once is one thing but to do it repeatedly on any track is a hole other deal and then to be able to turn corners well without changing the entire car seems "unfair".

I honestly don't think it can be done with a pile of bolt on or some welding required parts. It will take a completely purpose built car to achieve those ends.

You didn't really define what you want to do on a road course. I could turn laps in my pickup, but it wouldn't be very impressive. If you lean more towards drag racing with a pro-touring look it could save a lot of money. That is kinda where mine is heading. I haven't done it yet, so take this for what it is worth. I may fail miserably.

I'm converting my 87 Buick GN into a pro-touring car. It previously went 9.26@145 with out being completely dialed in. It had 8 second potential based on datalogs. To convert, I've swapped front suspension, brakes and soon a 6 speed in place of the th400. I have done nothing to change the power the motor makes. It makes a little over 900hp turned up even with a mild cam. The car still weighs roughly the same. So the potential is still there to go 9's. I think a turbo is the way to go if you want to do both. It can be turned down quickly for road course or street driving and back up quickly for the drag strip. There are more options for power management at the drag strip also.

The things that I have changed that will affect it are: Rear tires, I went to an 18" drag radial. 6 speed, but I'm going to a magnum and I bought a Mcleod RXT clutch. Both are capable of handling 9 second power IF I can drive it. I also swapped the spool for 35 spline truetrac and I'm questioning whether it can handle a launch hard enough to run a 9.

Now, I don't have extremely high spring rates, so it may suck on a road course. I have double adjustable shocks at all 4 corners that will need to be changed between the two. I may have to buy a set of 15" slicks because my old 15" drag radials will not work well with a stick.

In the end I suspect I'll have a car that can run a 9 and run on a road course, but it will not excel at either. But it should be fun. I will be under $100K when done, but I do 100% of the fab, machining and labor myself. If you have to pay for that stuff, it could eclipse that mark quickly.

art morrison's gt55, i would supercharge it but is just me...







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH2wdj7INwQ

Agreed.

This was the type of response i was looking at.

I can build my 55 into a killer drag car and buy a C5Z06 for less than the cost of a new Z/28. I am starting to think this may be the best route. Also if one car is broken I can always drive the other.

Wife is against 2 "toys" but i guess my truck can sit outside :D



Big thanks for the responses. I think I should brush up on my lap times before i go nuts building a car for it. 200k is not realistic to me.......not for a PT build

Hadn't seen Art's car in original paint since he first brought it home from New Mexico.... It was in such great shape. I actually would have just left it in the OP forever - but that doesn't get it in the magazines and looks at shows. So what he did with it was right for the business. Just a great all around car. Big inch small block - handles great - is nimble - sits right...

Bingo! :thumbsup:

Sure, you can take the easy way out. Or you can do something interesting.... something challenging..... something different.

Up to you. :)

Interesting - Driving at track days, not to track days

Challenging - Running every session and bettering your lap times

Different - Skinny Ford stripes on a C5 Z06

:peepwall:

Well -- nobody knows what your skills are - or how many tools you have - and how many free hours you have.... And generally if someone asked the kind of question you did - people would mostly assume you were pretty clueless. That's not a mean statement - it's just factual.

I just rebuilt my brother in laws/Sisters 69 Camaro.... Motor rebuild (624HP / 581 TQ) - New trans - complete new front subframe - complete new rear end and suspension - all new Wilwood brakes - radiator - all new wiring - Ring Brothers hinges - some trim - some glass - gauges - dash - complete new interior - New show quality paint... We did it all (I've done many like this) and the bill was well over 100 grand.... YEP -- Just parts. But interior and paint were about 40K of that.

If you had to add labor you'd EASILY be in the 200 grand arena - and if you can't write checks for the first 100K -- don't even start because that's what it's going to cost you. Parts are parts - and you WILL want to do things that you didn't when you start the project. It's called the "well.... while I'm here I might as well do X" syndrome. AKA - Project Creep....

If you can't or aren't willing to do everything right -- don't start it -- it will just end up a big pile of old parts all over your garage until your wife makes you sell it for 10 grand.

These cars are really easy to tear apart... buying all the new stuff to put them back together - and the TIME it takes - that's where the men separate from the boys. You will get in there and find RUST.... Oh yeah -- it's an OLD car.... there will be rust where it doesn't belong... oh and that's when the fun starts....

Do it! It's the best thing you can do and you'll meet great people and have a ball.... Just don't underestimate the effort - skills - and cash it takes.

This is where the buck stops. Especially, if in terms of money you are "iffy" about. :drowninga:

the 55 is a project no matter what way i decide to take it. The easy way out for me is stuffing a 383 and a t56 in the thing and just driving it. I want radical. 8s (solid 8s) is radical with a big turbo. Also radical - having an old muscle car corner with Corvettes.

I like how you are egging me on :guns: :D

Skills - i can give you a run down of things i had a hand in putting together with my brothers

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...k/P1010058.jpg
This was my brothers project a few years back. We started on it and his boss saw how solid it was and offered more money than he had into it and took the money. I dont think it ever was finished.


Drag racing - not a big deal
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...6/80malibu.jpg
old race car - had to redo all the suspension. Added Spohn drag bar and control arms and this car became deadly. Little 327sbc would run in the 11s when it wasnt 90+ and humid. Used to drive this car a lot on the street but it was fun with the big cam and spool and after adding the spohn stuff we left the mufflers off.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/P1010044.jpg
this car would run 10.80s with the 427bbc. I blew that up and it got a 468 and when we got aggressive with it - went 10.08. Would normally run 10.20s during the race season.
We put a 540 in it but never raced it. It was easily into the 9s(test hits). Car is sold motor was not.

The jeep in the background is a Commando that my other brother built. It was a saved from the grave deal as well. Just a toy he built for his wife to cruise on sunny days. (i have no build pics but this was shortly after it was painted).

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...TiTurbo002.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...TiTurbo009.jpg
and this was my daily driver/sleeper for quite a few years. Made 450whp on a high setting (needed bigger injectors to go over 500). Would run mid to high 11s at 130 - yeah i had traction issues. This was my 2nd build of such a car.

So this is my background. Notice how i did not say anything about building a purpose built car to go around corners.

Thinking along the lines of the imports and Corvette guys - i think you can be a little lazy out of the hole and ramp up the power for ET at the top end. Not ideal but wont require a "drag only" suspension either.

I guess a late model comparison is a new Mustang 5.0 (well not the new 2015). Live axle rear end - these guys add turbos or superchargers with a set of drag radials/wheels and run 10s-9s all day long with basically mail order parts and tune. Switch to a different wheel and the car performs on a road course as well. How well - im not sure - i just remember reading that article of the 5.0 coyote running with a new BMW M3.

Im going to do something - just trying to figure out what before i spend a dime.

i was sold on a new z/28. Then they said 75k and i decided im not spending 75k on a new car. Had it been 60-65 id probably have one sitting in the garage right now

But at 75 - that just opens up a ton of options to me. And i guess that was my tipping point.

200k is a no!
100k is a stretch but im not planning on out sourcing much

Now if I can build it for 50k - great! But i have built things before and i believe i have a good idea.

To achieve your goal, you'll have more than 50K in just parts. That's a fact. Right now, I don't think there are many projects on this site that are doing any more work themselves than we are on our project and I can tell you first hand you,ll have more than 50 in parts.

Heck, by the end of the project you'll probably have 5K+ in new parts that don't end up on the car! :lol: It sounds like a joke, but isn't!

I'm always behind anyone that has the ambition and drive to take on a project like the one you described. I wish you the best of luck.

So I check out the Optima Street Car event at Sebring for a few hours last Saturday. A gutted, clapped out C5 FRC with heads/cam and coil overs was running as good or better lap times than the full on vendor-owned pro touring cars. Just sayin'. Then, if you want to run nines, buy a blower and a set of slicks. Replace the tranny and diff when it lets go. Then build a nice street car out of the '55. Just my .02.

Fully understand. A fully dressed frame from Morrison or RS will be 20-30k. Then transmission, drive shaft, exhaust, fuel tank/pump/lines, pedals and linkage, shifter, roll bar/cage, belts. I can see having 8k plus just in wheels.
(2 sets 1 drag and 1 road)

And thank you for the kind words.

And a thank you to everyone else - this has been helpful

Haha, I'm pretty sure you're talking about Karl Dunn's C5. It's definitely not "clapped out"

JCG and Danny Popp have both worked on that car.

:thumbsup: