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Is anyone interested in the ZF 8HP transmissions?
In the last couple of years I have been reading up on various modern transmissions swaps, like the dual clutch ZF transmissions as well as the ZF 8HP70/90 range.
Is anyone interested in the 8HP swap? After LS Fest my buddies Tom and Brian drank the ZF 8HP KoolAid with me. Tom found a smoking deal on 3 take out 8HP70 transmission and he is starting to dig into them in preparation for doing the needed modifications to use the TurboLamik TCU. These transmissions are simultaneously complex yet simple. Here is the main case after the valve body has been removed. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/23/1183.jpg This is the valve body with a total of 9 solenoids. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/23/1184.jpg This is the part that needs to be modified. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/23/1185.jpg The shiny plate is the OEM TCU cover. That cover gets cut off and a PCB board gets soldered in place that allows the use of an externally mounted TCU. I would be interested in hearing from people that are interested in this swap, especially with Holley EFI. Andrew |
Today I got the images that compare a T56 with the Dodge 8HP70. This was a collaborative effort between myself, one of my customers, and Domi-Works. The images compare a Dodge 8HP70 with a GTO T-56. The 8HP70 is the gray outline and the T56 in black.
Here is the side view and you can see how the top profiles of the 8HP70 are about the same as a T56. Keep in mind that this will change a little bit with the 1" adapter installed, as the 8HP70 will sit one inch back. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-001.jpg This is the bottom view, and obviously the pan is wide, but the case profile is slim. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-002.jpg You can see that the case is slimmer in this top view. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-003.jpg This is the view from the rear... https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-004.jpg The front view shows that the bellhousing overall diameter is about the same. This view also shows how much the 8HP pan extends down. I can tell by looking at this that the 8HP oil pan will be about 1" below a Holley 302-2/3 oil pan, which is very common for GM A-body LS swaps. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-005.jpg and lastly a couple of 3/4 views from two different angles... https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-006.jpg https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/25/Dr-E...e8HP70-007.jpg I hope these images can help people better understand the fitment requirements. Judging by these pictures, I don't think that I will have to do anything to the tunnel in the Cougar to make this work. It actually looks like the transmissions mounts are very closely aligned. Andrew |
Here are the images comparing the Dodge 8HP70 with a 4L80e.
Looking at the side view, you can see that the top profile of the 8HP70 basically follows the outline of the 4L80e. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/28/Dr-E...e8HP70-008.jpg The bottom view shows how the 8HP pan has a much smaller foot print. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/28/Dr-E...e8HP70-009.jpg From the top view you can see that the 8HP is a little wider in the area where the bellhousing transitions into the main art of the case. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/28/Dr-E...e8HP70-010.jpg The rear view shows the depth of the 8HP oil pan in the rear. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/28/Dr-E...e8HP70-011.jpg From looking at these pictures, I am pretty sure that the 8HP70 will fit where ever a 4L80e fits. If your particular vehicle needs to have the tunnel modified to use a T56 or a 4L80e, then similar modifications will be required for the 8HP70. It also looks like the transmission mount will be very similar to the 4L80e location and to the T56 location. I will be using a TCP weld together crossmember kit. It has a universal transmission mount pad that needs to be welded in place. Andrew |
That's interesting, Andrew. Do you have any concerns about it holding up to the abuse the Cougar can give it?
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I have two friends that are doing this swap at the same time. The other cars are a 66 Fairlane with a LSx454 and a 2004 BMW M3 with a LT1/LT4 engine combination. All three cars are in the 600-700HP range. I actually thought there would be more interest here. This transmission is basically becoming the LS of the transmission world. There are adapter plates available for every popular performance engine out there, new or old. Andrew |
Exploring modern transmission swaps can be quite intriguing, especially when it comes to the ZF 8HP range. It's great to see the interest in the 8HP swap grow, and kudos to Tom for securing those transmissions and working on modifications. These transmissions do have their complexities, but the potential benefits are exciting. Looking forward to hearing more Futbol libre from those interested in this swap, especially in combination with Holley EFI. Keep us posted, Andrew
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Today Tom received a little care package from Sweden. We received all three kits and everything was packaged very nicely.
https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/30/1187.md.jpg This is the little PCB board that needs to be soldered in place where the stock TCU lives. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/30/1188.md.jpg I was actually shocked to see how small the PCB board is. The TurboLamik TCU is not huge, but it is quite a bit larger than the stock TCU. I suspect that ZF has a lot of very talented electronics hardware engineers working for them and that the stock TCU probably uses some ASICs, while the TurboLamik uses more readily available, larger, general purpose chip sets. I also suspect that this si why everyone that tries to get around the stock TCU limits eventually hits a wall. That is because the ASICs have built in hardware limits that just can't be exceeded with software hacking. The TurboLamik has no such limitations and thus is more flexible. The sleeve on the left is the adapter to use an earlier transmission where the converter snouts had a smaller diameter. We won't need them, but it is nice that they it is included. All of the hardware is included and individually packaged. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/10/30/1189.md.jpg Andrew |
I had no idea they were finally making automatics that strong. I was easily impressed with all the gears they now have. Power capacity didn't even enter my mind. This is definitely interesting.
Btw, Tom bought the Forgeline's on his M3 from me. Small world. Wish we could have chatted longer when he came by to pick them up. Thanks, Andrew |
Very interesting.
I am such a manual transmission guy, that I have not paid too much attention to most of the newer automatics outside of watching what the 10 speeds have done with the ford s550 and f-150 platforms. Appreciate the information and look forward to seeing how this will work and what it takes to integrate it into the holley. |
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Andrew |
We are using halltech to control the ZF8 behind an LS3. Amazing transmission.
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How about some details about the hardware adaption and installation pictures? What kind of car is it in? Andrew |
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If the 8HP70 works well in my Cougar, I'll be doing a 8HP90 in my GTO. Andrew |
Today Tom sent me some pictures of the preparations that he is doing to the stock TCU in order to use the TurboLamik. This is the part that has to be removed from the valve body. Here it is sitting upside down and you can see the shiny plate, which is the case of the stock TCU. This top of this case must be cut off carefully by using e Dremel with a cut off disk.
https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/05/1190.jpg Here is the stock TCU with the cover cut off. You can see how impressively small the electronics are inside the TCU. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/05/1191.jpg Sadly, we can't use any of it, so all of the little wires that you to go from the circuit board to the pins have to be cut off and bent back. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/05/1192.jpg Here is the Domi-works PCB board. It will get soldered in place to bridge the appropriate pins so that the TurboLamik TCU can be used externally. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/05/1193.jpg Once the PCB is soldered in place, the little billet cover has to be glued in place. Tom found a local electronics repair place that will do the soldering at a very good price. We felt that this job was important enough to have a professional do it. Andrew |
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https://www.facebook.com/reel/573826411567754 |
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Which TCU are you using inside the 8HP70? Andrew |
That wagon is silly, lol.
This is pretty cool seeing the insides of this transmission and what you're having to go through to control it. Thanks for sharing the pics |
Here is another part that is necessary when doing the Dodge 8HP70 swap:
https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/pro...rk-release-kit I should have it next week. Andrew |
...and that's why it's so easy to steal a Hell Cat. No key needed, pop up the shifter cover and pull the release to put it in neutral. I watch too many youtube shorts, lol.
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Today I visited Vic, not just for lunch but to see if he can help with a small project.
I got these paddle shifters from DomiWorks a while back. I was actually going to use them on my GTO, but it seemed more appropriate to repurpose them for the Cougar in anticipation of the 8HP70 swap. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/28/1194.md.jpg We decided to keep it simple and just mount the paddles to the spokes of the steering wheel. Before taking off the steering wheel I actually mocked up the paddles against the steering when when it was still installed in the car. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/28/1195.md.jpg This was the chosen location. It puts the paddles at the fingertips but keeps them tucked nicely and the left side one does not interfere with the turn signal stalk. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/28/1196.md.jpg The location for the holes was laid out and the holes were drilled. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/11/28/1197.md.jpg Apparently I forgot to take more pictures along the way, but here is a little video that shows one of the paddles in action. Andrew |
Here is where I am with all of this. I have been trying to gather as much information as I can about both the TurboLamik and the HTG, especially how they integrate with Holley EFI. Sadly, there is precious little information out there. So either it is not being done very much, or people are being very secretive. If you do a google search for Holley and HTG or TurboLamik, there is barely anything out there. Seems Legit Garage claims that they have done "many" Holley EFI systems with the HTG, but even their El Camino uses a GM ECU. I also joined the HTG and TurboLamik FB groups, and while there seems to be quite a bit of interest in these swaps, there is very little actual information.
I am going to the PRI show this coming week and have a meeting on my schedule with the TurboLamik US rep. I also purchased a CAN course from HP Academy, which has been very helpful. That is all I have for now, but I will be making updates as more information becomes available. Andrew |
Hi Andrew. I am following and curious what features and functionality you are hoping to achieve by integrating the Holley with the TCU versus both systems running independently. Just curious, not questioning the goal.
Watching this thread for possible integration into my 57 Buick Caballero build. :) Thanks, Don |
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The ZF 8HP swap journey continues as well. Tom is working on prepping these transmissions for us. These two were probably the worst looking on the outside.
https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/12/14/1199.jpg https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/12/14/1200.jpg But they sure cleaned up nicely! https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/12/14/1201.jpg The really cool part about these transmissions is that they already have a CV cup on the output! If you guys recall, I was basically the one that popularized the use of modern CV driveshafts in older cars. My Cougar has had a dual CV driveshaft since I built it in 2015. https://j.hmjimg.com/2023/12/14/1202jpeg.jpg The GTO has had a CV driveshaft in it since about 2012-2013ish...Both driveshafts use a carbon fiber tube. So when using the 8HP in an older car, the front CV is already to go! I met with The DriveShaft Shop at the PRI show and they assured me that they can build driveshafts for these swaps. Andrew |
In addition to working on the electronics, we also had a chance to mock up the engine with the adapter and the transmission. Please keep in mind this is just a loose mock-up. We were missing a couple of key parts, like the flexplate and the dowel pins between the adapter plate and the transmission.
This is BA's engine. It was recently on the dyno and made just under 700HP. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1205.jpg This is one of the transmissions that Tom got and it already has the PCB modification performed. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1206.jpg The Domiworks adapter plate fit the engine block perfectly. It is a nice touch that they included the oil pan bolts. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1207.jpg The adapter has beautiful chamfers on all of the edges. I really appreciate that kind of detail. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1208.jpg The is the "wagon wheel" adapter that bolts to the torque converter and a stock LS flexplate. BA actually has a TCI SFI flexplate and I will be getting a SFI flexplate from Circle D. Notice that the wagon wheel has provisions for all 3 of the popular flexplate to converter bolt patterns. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1209.jpg Here are the transmission and the adapter plate put together. Notice the offset bolt in the adapter for Gen V LT engines. This is critical for Tom, who obviously has a LT based engine in his BMW. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1210.jpg Here is a just a close look at the transmission and adapter. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1212.jpg This is more of the same from the other side. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/01/14/1211.jpg More to come eventually. Things are in a bit of a holding pattern until this cold snap is over. Andrew |
My friend Tom is making progress on his e46 M3 Gen 5 LT 8HP swap.
He is using a spare 5.3L L83 block for mock up. You can see the Domiworks adapter plate along with his custom engine mounts. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/03/16/sign...6-162002-1.jpg Working with a lift and some tables the engine and transmission drop out the bottom. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/03/16/sign...6-162002-2.jpg Tom is using a transmission mount sold by Holley, but it will be modified to work with a stock BMW crossmember. This particular crossmember is from a later F-series BMW. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/03/16/sign...6-162002-3.jpg With the transmission mocked up at the correct engine angle the transmission pan is level and flush with the rockers. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/03/16/sign...6-162002-4.jpg The tunnel needed to be massaged just a little in a few places, but he will be able to reuse all of the stock heat insulation panels. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/03/16/sign...6-162002-5.jpg This car is going to hurt some feelings. Progress is being made... Andrew |
I got a notification from eBay showing a BMW shifter for $120. I jumped on it because it was black. Most other ones are silver. I don't really even know what kind of BMW it is from.
https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/04/03/1213.jpg Andrew |
Andrew |
Very nice. Glad you're making progress.
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I am really surprised more people are not interested in this transmission swap for their projects.
Andrew |
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"Well, I want to update this as my car has been on the road a while. This is a bit long. Background on the car: 75 camaro with a forged 370 LS LSA heads(factory stock with springs) LSA blower with 2.45 upper and stock lower BTR Stage 2 turbo cam(226/231 @ 0.050, 0.600/0.610 lift on a 113) 1-7/8 header to 3" x pipe and magnaflow mufflers Junk yard 8hp70(500 bucks!) Stock converter SLG LS to 8HP adaptor Turbolamik computer Ford 9" 3.00 rear gears DCT(brand) shifter--basically a sequential shifter but can be used to put in R/Drive Andrew and Lukas got CAN working(I can't thank them enough for their time spent getting it working!) and we had some trials and errors on my car to get it to work. This was on my part.. but for whatever reason, it just wouldn't work with spliced connections from the old transmission harness I was using. I ordered some holley pins and sure enough it started working! ----------------------- Originally I was using analog sensors which added some wiring just so I could move the car around, but was driving it. It was funky on some of the shifting or even when in gear, but really did work pretty well. It was all within the tune, but not something I was too worried about. I knew the trans was in good shape and everything was working. The trans for the most part felt positive, but I was somewhat second guessing myself if it was worth the work. Few months go by and everyone is busy, I am kind of burned out and working on other projects and I get a call. Hey we got CAN working! Awesome! Except.. yeah my wiring was bad(again my fault even though the wires showed the same Ohms and continuity as the new wire I put in). Turbolamik and Andrew decide to try a new computer. Still nothing, so we decided to rewire the CAN wires(only 2 wires are needed for communication!) and it works! It's been about a month since CAN has started working, maybe a bit less, but I've been driving the car a bit since it made a world of a difference! I've been playing with different tune settings of the trans(I made 3 modes and it's cool to see the differences between them) Andrew set up a few things in the Holley software to enable toque cut which makes it shift smoother/faster. Heck I thought this was it and was super stoked on how well everything is working. I took a buddy out for a rip and he couldn't believe how well it drove and how well it just applied the power with the nice gear ratios that we get with these 8 speeds. Rolling 3rd-5th is a wild ride! So I got a call this morning, "can you hop on your computer real quick" and lucky enough I could! Login and Andrew and Lukas were working on switching TPS to PPS in the turbolamik software(they got it working in a matter of minutes) and Lukas noticed an issue with the torque calculation. He starts going through it. WOW. I thought this things was smooth before, that was like icing on the cake! I describe it as if I blind folded someone and threw them in the car, they would swear its a new car. The upshifts are crisp and positive and the car feels faster than it ever has(even compared to the 489 big block and t56 magnum it had). I went out and did a data log for Andrew, I noticed I only got up to 68% throttle and 4700rpm and it felt like a rocket ship. The shifts were pretty perfect in the way they felt too. Would I recommend this conversion? Absofreakinglutly. Going from a 4l80e to an 8hp70 makes the car feel like it picked up 150-200hp(thinking of a 150 shot of nitrous)." I have two more customers that should be on the road in a couple of weeks. Andrew |
Here is a little video from the customer above.
Andrew |
Sounds great. Is there a way to use the stock speedo and tach with it?
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This car belongs to my long time friend Brian. Last year he had a catastrophic driveshaft failure that took out the floor pan, exhaust, 4L80e transmission and the LSx454 block. It took a year, but it has been rebuilt better than before. The engine internals were balanced and put into a Dart block. A different cam was added and it made 700hp on the engine dyno.
The transmission was replaced with a Dodge 8HP70, using the TurboLamik, which communicates with a Holley Dominator ECU over CAN. She is wearing her dancing shoes to party. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/09/01/BA001.jpg The new center console will likely get extended further back and upholstered. https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/09/01/BA002.jpg https://j.hmjimg.com/2024/09/01/BA003.jpg It also has a dual CV 3.8" diameter carbon fiber driveshaft from The Driveshaft Shop. This car will be at LS Fest next weekend and I am hoping very good things. If anyone is going to LS Fest, some say "hello" to me in the TurboLamik booth. Andrew |
Doing a little trans brake testing.
Andrew |
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