Wilwood safety wire question

[79ta462]

I received by new brake kit from wilwood (ds504.pdf) for 140-9053. It seems they come with torx button cap bolts now that do not have provisions for safety wire. The instructions say to just use red loctite on all bolts (calipers, rotor to adapter, hub to adapter).

Did they do away with safety wire? Should I buy new bolts that have the provisions of safety wire?

Thanks

[Musclerodz]

Bolt is not subject to rotation so no need to saftey wire if you loctite and torque to spec per instructions.

[79ta462]

Originally Posted by Musclerodz

Bolt is not subject to rotation so no need to saftey wire if you loctite and torque to spec per instructions.

the reason i ask is because other larger kits from them tell you to safety wire everything. I also found another revision of instructions for my kit that include different.bolts and require safety wire.

[Vegas69]

If you are that worried about it, order a set of bolts with the provision. I tend to agree with you. I'd rather use safety wire than red loctite in such a potential high heat application.

[KAA]

I've used both Stoptech and Brembo two piece rotors. Always used the supplied loctite on the bolts. Never had one come loose.

[ccracin]

Safety wire is in my opinion not suited for the hobbyist. It has been my experience in the industrial sector that safety wire on fasteners is incorrectly installed over 50% of the time. Some wired to actually loosen the fastener, wire too lose, wire twisted to the point of fracture, etc, etc. So much so that we have had to have classes for experienced technicians on how to do it properly. Because of this, I do not see a high success rate for people doing this once for their brake kit. The only benefit I can see is that it gives you a visual reference that the fasteners are all there. If not done correct the wire will not be properly tensioned and therefore not help maintain the torque on the fastener. The fastener only has to turn a fraction of a turn to loose the bolt stretch and therefore the clamp load. I can certainly see why Wilwood would make a decision move to loctite. Don't get me wrong, safety wire when done properly does exactly what it is supposed to, but to me there is a higher percentage of success when non-trained people use loctite. There are issues with that too, but I'll get off my soapbox. Please take this for what it is worth. Just my opinions based on what have seen the industrial manufacturing sector. Good luck with your project!

[GregWeld]

The thing about safety wire is that it wouldn't allow a "loose bolt" to back out completely even if done improperly.

Locktite can just a easily be applied improperly - like to a greasy/oily bolt or a clean bolt in a greasy/oily hole...

When doing Wilwood brakes, and I've done maybe a half dozen sets of 'em, I use locktite AND the safety wire. Personally I like the looks of the safety wire and it's fun to do. But everyone knows I'm weird.

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by ccracin

but to me there is a higher percentage of success when non-trained people use loctite. There are issues with that too, but I'll get off my soapbox.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The thing about safety wire is that it wouldn't allow a "loose bolt" to back out completely even if done improperly.

Locktite can just a easily be applied improperly - like to a greasy/oily bolt or a clean bolt in a greasy/oily hole...
I use locktite AND the safety wire.

Exactly! Using both is a great idea.

Because most of these rotors mount to the hat with the bolts in shear, if you loose the clamp load you loose the friction force in that joint. You then rely on the bolt itself only to react the braking force. If enough loosen, you will then start to shear bolts and safety wire won't help. That's why in my mind if done improperly it's not worth using it. (without a redundant locking solution) Now as Greg said combine it with loctite as well and you have a good solution. Safety wire does look cool and does provide a visual reference as to what you have. Also as Greg said, the threads have to be clean and dry for loctite to be effective. Did you know there is a shelf life for loctite? See Below for an FYI on this. Personally I would like to see these used:
http://www.nord-lock.com/default.asp?url=7.16.37

As a word of warning to those just reading this exchange, the Nord-Loc washer work very well, but don't just implement them. They add thickness to your bolted joint and the fastener length has to be able to accommodate that correctly.

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