Roll Cage vs Roll bar? It's suspension if your suspension doesn't keep you RSD

[FETorino]

PT car = street car that is track capable not a race car. So at what point do you do a cage?

I'm thinking a 4 point Bar (I'm not calling a 4 point a cage) will afford some added insurance and even let me run Silverstate GT up to 150.

For a 3-4K lbs car 1.75 120 wall BAR seems to suffice until your get real serious.

Any reason I should rethink this and go full cage? I would like to be able to drive the car without a helmet on the street and not constantly be worrying about hitting my melon on the front hoop

Unlike GW I'm a Sasquatch at 6'4" so head room is always a premium. Hitting my head so often is probably the cause of the brain damage that is drving me to spend so much $$$ on an old Ford

[Ron in SoCal]

I say do it as long as no kiddies are riding in the back seat. You're planning on beating on that moster and have enough HP to really do some damage. Given your 'fittment' in the car get one custom made once you hve seats/pedals installed.

Years ago when i was at that decision point I spoke to Uncle Frank about it. Noob that I was, I told him I wasn't planning on driving it hard enough to roll the car but would take it on the track (how stupid was that statement?). Frank's response - "no one ever 'plans' on rolling their car."

[Vegas69]

700 horsepower and a dry sump.

This is a tough debate. If you have kids that want to ride in the back seat, you are building the wrong car in my opinion. With the chassis and engine you plan, you need at least a 6 point and race belts. Only you know to what degree you will use the car. OK, maybe you don't know until you turn the key and get out to some events.

So, as the old saying goes, you can't bake your cake and eat it too. What's important to you? Your kids safety, your safety, streetability, track compliance? Only you can make that decision and it's an important one for the function of the car.

You really don't know what a missile you are building. That goes for you to Ron. Believe me, 700hp will motivate anything down the straightaway in a big way. I've run a couple road courses with speeds pushing 140, the thought crosses your mind! And it does and will happen to someone in this community, eventually. I'm not trying to be a downer, I just think safety is vastly under thought in this community.

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

I say do it as long as no kiddies are riding in the back seat. You're planning on beating on that moster and have enough HP to really do some damage. Given your 'fittment' in the car get one custom made once you hve seats/pedals installed.

Years ago when i was at that decision point I spoke to Uncle Frank about it. Noob that I was, I told him I wasn't planning on driving it hard enough to roll the car but would take it on the track (how stupid was that statement?). Frank's response - "no one ever 'plans' on rolling their car."

Originally Posted by Vegas69

700 horsepower and a dry sump.

This is a tough debate. With the chassis and engine you plan, you need at least a 6 point and race belts. Only you know to what degree you will use the car. OK, maybe you don't know until you turn the key and get out to some events.
.

I remember when I built my first shifter kart. I didn't realize how important seat fit really was till I got it on the track and really pushed it. After one cracked rib I bought a really nice seat.

I agree nobody ever plans on crashing but you are an idiot if you aren't prepared for it. I always wore a helmet when I rode motorcyles even before the law.

No kids. Talked my wife into that before I got married. That's how I can afford the car and hopefully will stop working by 55.

No back seat so a 4 point with a proper diagonal bar is a no brainer in my mind. I just keep going back and forth in my head on adding the front hoop and down bars or not. Working in the front of the cage will add a lot of fab work.

Ron what did you do in your?
Todd I'm guessing you went with an 8 pt deal?

[wiedemab]

So - I'll ask a dumb question. I've heard this mentioned several times. People are worried about their head impacting the front down-bars. I understand the concern, but if not for the down-bars - - if your head is thrust in that direction wouldn't it hit the A-pillar or the steel dash. I know the cage down-bar is much more rigid than the dash and the A-pillar, but my head (and I'm pretty hard-headed!!) is still the softer of the group.

I'm wrestling with this for a future project as well. I plan to have a 5-pt harness setup, but the other factor is if you wear a harness without a Head and Neck Restraint you are asking for trouble too.

It's all a calculated risk, I suppose. Please post what your decision is what your logic was behind it. It may help me make a decision.

Thanks

[intocarss]

You only live once. Go full cage

[Ron in SoCal]

Rob - I did the diagonal 5 point like you mentioned. 1 5/8" DSE pre-fab, sanctioning body non-compliant, not tied into any frame rails but fabbed strong enoungh for "what if". I also worked w Cris to prep the car for sub down bars, trangulated/reinforced under the dash. This was done for tortional ridgidity.

Brandon - My opinon only, but a good seat combined w good belts and a good halo is a good start. HANS is a whole 'nother level up, welcomed on track.

If I ever build a track only car, it'll have a sanctioning body compliant cage and I'll strongly consider a HANS system.

Cage systems in a PT car is a very personal choice and something is better than nothing...

[garickman]

Originally Posted by wiedemab

So - I'll ask a dumb question. I've heard this mentioned several times. People are worried about their head impacting the front down-bars. I understand the concern, but if not for the down-bars - - if your head is thrust in that direction wouldn't it hit the A-pillar or the steel dash. I know the cage down-bar is much more rigid than the dash and the A-pillar, but my head (and I'm pretty hard-headed!!) is still the softer of the group.

I'm wrestling with this for a future project as well. I plan to have a 5-pt harness setup, but the other factor is if you wear a harness without a Head and Neck Restraint you are asking for trouble too.

It's all a calculated risk, I suppose. Please post what your decision is what your logic was behind it. It may help me make a decision.

Thanks

I always hear the same argument about a vehicles driver or passengers hitting thier head on a street driven car with a roll bar or roll cage. I don't know squat about roll cages but I have been on the scene of several hundred accidents including a couple dozen fatalities. The fact of the matter is that no one accident is the same and no one accident is predictable. There is a possibility that a vehicles occupants may sustain injuries because of roll cage installation, but there is also the same possibility that a vehicle occupants may have avoided major injuries because of a roll cage installation. It's a 50/50 crap shoot on what type of injuries one may or may not receive in a vehicle accident.

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

You really don't know what a missile you are building. That goes for you to Ron. Believe me, 700hp will motivate anything down the straightaway in a big way. I've run a couple road courses with speeds pushing 140, the thought crosses your mind! And it does and will happen to someone in this community, eventually. I'm not trying to be a downer, I just think safety is vastly under thought in this community.

This is the absolute truth.

Some will say I am overreacting, and that you shouldn't have to meet certain safety standards, but 500+HP and open track events is a big accident waiting to happen. In fact they have already happened, but you just never see the publicity. Two people died at Silver State a couple of years ago, someone died at the Spectre hillclimb 2 years ago. In the past couple of years, I have noted deaths at driver training events, and open track events, and there are many, many, more accidents and deaths. There have been several off track excursions at PT RTTX events that could have been much worse. We as a group have been lucky, that luck won't hold out forever. I have raced, and I have seen many balled up racecars hauled away, and broken people taken to the hospital.

If you are going out on a big track, someday you will have an accident. Prepare for it.

Everyone makes the decision to take the risks that are acceptable to them, but use some sense and prepare for the danger. A typical PT car nowdays has more HP and less safety equipment than a nascar or TransAm car from the 60's. Look up the life expectancy of a driver back then, it wasn't much.

I am an advocate for building a racecar from the start. There are many classes of racing you can get into for a fraction of a top end PT car. Sure it is cool to have a streetable race car, but in the end, it will do neither very well. And racing just flat tears up equipment, don't do it if you are using your pride and joy that you poured years of labor and every last cent into.

This is what you need to be able to walk away from, and bear in mind that a vintage car like this was probably lucky to have 450hp

[Blake Foster]

I elected to put a full cage in my Nova, knowing it would see track time and some street driving.
it is not a "LEGAL" anything cage, I used 1.57 x .095 as per scca specs. the only part that is not legal are the door bars besause legal bars make it impossible to get in and out. so my door bars are low whih provide some additional side impact safety as well as triangulation of the front down tube and main hoop. there is NO WAY you can even get in the back seat and I never intended to have anyone in the back so who cares.
I think the picture in the above post sayes it all!!!
my nova has 430 hp to the rear wheels and it is crazy how fast you get going. I am with Todd 700 hp will be fast on a long straight expect to see 150-160 mph!! you think that if you lost the brakes heaven forbid the original sheet metal will hold up? **** happens as they say. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. One other thing I did was to use approved FIA race seats. and it is surprising how comfortable they are and how tight they hold you in. another big benifet is that they sit you as low as possible as the bottom of the seat is only 1" thick and the seat tracks are another 1" so they give the max head room.
also use roll bar padding!!