just a thought on geometry - Lateral-g Forums

GM Muscle · #1 07-09-2008, 02:26 PM

and it may have already been discussed.. but instead of the guldstrand mod, has anyone ever just used the howe tall upper balljoint, offset cross shaft and moved the control arm mounts back 7/8ths of and inch? im just exploring options and trying to save a penny.. im not trying to win any races.. just trying to rag on my car and maintain control

id like to buy the spc arms and be done but i have other priorities in life all of the sudden and have to make due. life throws a few wrenches in right when you think youve got it all figured out!

i just wanted to explore this option and get some opinons.. i can see the pros being you dont have to redrill any holes, you dont have to do any notching, and it would save quite a bit of money. cons?- just plain wont work? haha

Blake Foster · #2 07-10-2008, 09:14 AM

if your using a stock subframe, and want to move the upper control arms back 7/8" then you have to cut the upper control arm off the sub any way so why not drop it down at the same time and the G mod is done, no need for special ball joints.

GM Muscle · #3 07-10-2008, 10:20 AM

i agree it would be easy but i was under the impression that the extra tall ball joints were superior to the g-mod? i dont like the idea of notching, it just seems like it would weaken an area. Im not oppossed to the g-mod at all. just exploring different routes. does pozzi still post on here? are the offset crossshafts even needed? i figured it would just allow for that extra bit of adjustability. for some reason on this computer i cant log in to protouring.com or teamcamaro.com i can only browse.

Rick Dorion · #4 07-10-2008, 01:38 PM

Mark, at SC&C, has posted alot about the benefits of tall UBJ vs Gmod, etc. Not sure if he did here but on pro-touring.com he has.

I have a tall (not tallest ) UBJ and his UCA's annd like it for the street. His arms allow caster/camber without shims. With max shims, I got a little over 3* caster and .5* negative camber. With his UCA's and no shims, I have 5* caster, same camber.

GM Muscle · #5 07-10-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Dorion

Mark, at SC&C, has posted alot about the benefits of tall UBJ vs Gmod, etc. Not sure if he did here but on pro-touring.com he has.

I have a tall (not tallest ) UBJ and his UCA's annd like it for the street. His arms allow caster/camber without shims. With max shims, I got a little over 3* caster and .5* negative camber. With his UCA's and no shims, I have 5* caster, same camber.

im pretty sure it was his post that i read about the x tall ball joints being more beneficial.

WHERE YOU AT MARK? lol

David Pozzi · #6 07-11-2008, 12:40 AM

I did what you are suggesting, cut off the mount, trimmed the bottom and welded it back on but to the rear. I only moved it 1/2" because I figured I would add tubular upper A arms.

I haven't run the tall balljoint version against the G mod, but a taller balljoint is only 1/2" longer, at least that's what my early Howe uppers are. The G mod lowers by a bit more than that, so I'd expect the G mod to be about as good or slightly better than 1/2" taller upper balljoints. The tall uppers could even be added to a car with G mod, or the G mod could be increased a bit lowering the upper mount even more.

Mark has some taller lower balljoints and for cars that are lowered a lot that would help bring the LBJ back more to level and increase neg camber gain even more.

There is a limit to all this neg camber gain increase stuff. The static roll center rises and increases jacking effects along with increased roll stiffness.
Excessive neg camber gain will hurt braking.

My car will have a G mod that is a bit lower position than usual, I will use stock upper balljoints, then swap in the 1/2" taller versions to compare.
David